WW LXV-- Enter the CUBICLE (GAME OVER! See Post #1625 For Final Game Post)

[Lathum]

the problem with mauboys reveal is he needed to reveal a specific role.

He'll learn, he;s a smart one.

[mauchow]

Dude I just haven't been able to post incessently this game. I pretty much neglected work last game when I made 150 posts as the Seer to convince people to go for the major win. I mean I think I've been pretty active.

I think if you look, nearly everyone left has been a contender on someone's theory at some point in time.

Is this because I voted for you? I don't get it.

I think that you're just finally realizing it's not fair to your fellow wolves to give up.

Nah, I just got a little vibe from your posts. It doesn't matter to me at this point what I vote and don't vote. I'll just keep going on hunches and hopefully all my hunches are right(even though I know they're probably not). I guess we'll see at the end of the game.

Anyways, sorry once again to all of the good guys.. I fucked it up for us.

Do I have to start acting like RendeR and cyber sexing the ladies?

[Lathum]

bsak- the clan they were in is on page 1.

[Lathum]

and yes. it makes some sense.

The problem I see is that everyone has an argument for voting a known wolf.

[RendeR]

Nah, I just got a little vibe from your posts. It doesn't matter to me at this point what I vote and don't vote. I'll just keep going on hunches and hopefully all my hunches are right(even though I know they're probably not). I guess we'll see at the end of the game.

Anyways, sorry once again to all of the good guys.. I fucked it up for us.

Do I have to start acting like RendeR and cyber sexing the ladies?


Unfortunately for you, you've already been acting like I id when I started playing. As Lathum posted, you're smart, you'll learn in time ;)

[Schmidty]

Nah, I just got a little vibe from your posts. It doesn't matter to me at this point what I vote and don't vote. I'll just keep going on hunches and hopefully all my hunches are right(even though I know they're probably not). I guess we'll see at the end of the game.

Anyways, sorry once again to all of the good guys.. I fucked it up for us.

Do I have to start acting like RendeR and cyber sexing the ladies?

Since you are resigned to losing, yet claim to be good regardless of the seemingly epic mistake you made, why don't you just tell us your role? It won't hurt anything, since you're gone anyway.

The fact that you STILL aren't giving specifics re-affirms to me that you are a wolfy.

[mauchow]

the problem with mauboys reveal is he needed to reveal a specific role.

He'll learn, he;s a smart one.

I'll be honest. It was a mistake to post what I did after, about not having a role. I was just typing incoherently. Stupid move obviously. I'm not a golf buddy. At that point I was hoping it would at least score a balanced vote among everyone assuming I'd get it to be a tie. It'd allow the wolves to then kill me on the night vote since they'd like to get a golf buddy, then I'd be helping the rest of the villagers by allowing them to just get a normal office worker. Again, screwed up that move the second I fake-revealed.

If the rest of the votes would go elsewhere, it would do a lot more good to the villagers. Landslide vote here is not going to do anything for us though, imo.

Good luck. Why do I keep posting? Oh yeah, I don't work today. Gotta go see Cloverfield or something.

[claphamsa]

This is great pile on Mau!!!! and then watch path and bska duke it out!

[mauchow]

Since you are resigned to losing, yet claim to be good regardless of the seemingly epic mistake you made, why don't you just tell us your role? It won't hurt anything, since you're gone anyway.

The fact that you STILL aren't giving specifics re-affirms to me that you are a wolfy.

Regular Office Worker.

[claphamsa]

anyone else having site issues?

[mauchow]

anyone else having site issues?

Yup, when I post.

[claphamsa]

Just out of curiosity do the temps know they are temps?

[Passacaglia]

Yup, when I post.

"Every time I post, lies come out" is not really a site issue. :p

[mauchow]

"Every time I post, lies come out" is not really a site issue. :p

If that's the case. I'm a wolf.

[Lathum]

If that's the case. I'm a wolf.

board looks to be working again

[Passacaglia]

board looks to be working again

haha it took me a while to get this joke -- awesome

[mauchow]

board looks to be working again

Hah.

Well, take it easy guys. I'll post again tonight 12 minutes to the deadline. Nothing will work. I'm a dead normal worker anyways. Have fun working with nothing.

[path12]

So by association you would have to look at those underlined as maybe being a part of the team associated with SnDvls along with Path who openly states that he would vote for Farrah but doesn't want to because she "looks about done". So he doesn't want to be associated with the others in the final tally. Make sense?

Or.......you could just take what I said at it's actual meaning, which was that rather than pile on to the end of a vote that was obviously going to happen that I wanted to get my suspect for the next day out there in SnDvls. However, that looks like it was done for me with the night actions, and I was right about him being a wolf.

[Lathum]

looks like it may be a slow day.

[Passacaglia]

looks like it may be a slow day.

Seems like it. I guess now we can all go out and enjoy ourselves on a Friday night, without worrying about what's going to happen at deadline.

[Arles]

Guys,

Sorry I've been a little busy today and not able to respond. First, I used my "view" on MAU last night and CR responded that he is a normal villager. Now, this could have been one of the "random" replies, but I actually believe it.

If Mau was a wolf, he would be on the cougars. He voted for Fink and Farrah in the past two nights (both crew wolves). But, I just don't but it as he's been following Pass around. If he and Pass were both wolves, this would be way too obvious. Given the view I have and the fact that Pass' actions to put the RendeR-Fink vote to a tie with 5 minutes left on day two make him the best wolf choice to me. Look at posts 558 to 568:

Day 2 Count (as of post #558)

Render (7)-- Arles (361), Mr. Wednesday (396), oliegirl (403), mauboy1 (408), Passacaglia (410), claphamsa (514), Farrah Whitworth-Rahn (518)
finkenst (6)-- jeheinz72 (360), path12 (377), The Jackal (414), Lathum (426), SnDvls (489), Render (491)
Lathum (1)-- bsak16 (395)
SnDvls (1)-- ntndeacon (392)
Farrah Whitworth-Rahn (1)-- st.cronin (346)
jeheinz72 (1)-- Alan T (349)

Not Voted: finkenst, Schmidty


Here's what I am showing right now.

7:52 PM - I want to stir things up by switching my vote.. but then that would cause more trouble, perhaps.

7:54 PM - I wish people would move off render.
I would rather have the active player around.

7:55PM -I can't help but agree.

UNVOTE RENDER
VOTE FINKENST

This vote changed it from 7-6 RendeR to 7-6 Fink. Now, if I were a cougar wolf, this would be a great move. You basically knock out an opposing wolf with one vote. And, by waiting until 7:55 PM to do it, you don't the RendeR crowd a chance to argue and switch back.

This, IMO, is the best piece of evidence we have so far. Combine it with the fact that Pass happened to be the first to post the Cronin connection on Farrah being a wolf make two key events against crew wolves in 12 hours.

Mau has played the game fairly clumsily today, but I don't think that means he is a wolf. If I were a wolf, the last thing I would do is start stirring up the pot, constantly switching votes and working hand-in-hand with Pass over the last 24 hours.

[Arles]

So, it's not surprising that I:

Vote Pass

[Passacaglia]

Arlie, I'll think on what you've said and try to show you where I'm coming from, but what I want to reply to off the bat is using your view as evidence. You know that the view is random -- how can you possibly justify using that in an argument?

[Arles]

Arlie, I'll think on what you've said and try to show you where I'm coming from, but what I want to reply to off the bat is using your view as evidence. You know that the view is random -- how can you possibly justify using that in an argument?
Well, it's been right on one occasion so far and there's a decent chance it's right today. I would say the view is 60-40 accurate. So, if the view says Mau is OK and his actions just seem too outlandish to be a wolf, I would say that's enough to move him down the "potential wolf" list. Mau may end up being a wolf, but I just don't see it when you take everything into account. My list yesterday was:

1. Path12
2. Pass
3. Farrah
4. Mau

I see no reason to move Mau above you when the only new information I have is that farrah is a wolf in the crew faction (making your votes 2-2 on cre wolves) and I got a night view that Mau was a dept. worker. Right now, I would lean towards:

1. Pass
2. Path12
3. Lathum (fish?)
4. Mau

[Passacaglia]

This vote changed it from 7-6 RendeR to 7-6 Fink. Now, if I were a cougar wolf, this would be a great move. You basically knock out an opposing wolf with one vote. And, by waiting until 7:55 PM to do it, you don't the RendeR crowd a chance to argue and switch back.

Arlie, this seems more accusing than it should be. There was still plenty of time. The reason I withheld voting for fink for so long was because I kept waiting for him to show up, and when I realized he wasn't going to, I put in a vote. I gave people 5 minutes to make up their mind. Three people changed their votes after me, so it's not like the fact that I gave fink a one-vote lead was a knockout. If you're going to look at people who voted to knock fink out, without giving anyone else enough time, why not look at the guy who made it a 3-vote lead for fink with just one minute left?

[Passacaglia]

Well, it's been right on one occasion so far and there's a decent chance it's right today. I would say the view is 60-40 accurate.

That's not at all the same as being random.

[oliegirl]

Unfortunately, Mau has dug his own grave at this point, we all started off as new players at one point and made those rookie mistakes...I know I did! If he's a worker, well, it won't be the first time a good guy was voted off for making a mistake...live and learn Mau.

VOTE MAU

[mauchow]

Arlie so far is the only one doing this correctly. Just thought I'd point that out. And he's the only one that everyone believes not to be a wolf. That makes sense, eh?

[jeheinz72]

Arlie so far is the only one doing this correctly. Just thought I'd point that out. And he's the only one that everyone believes not to be a wolf. That makes sense, eh?

Doing what correctly? Not voting for you? Yeah, compelling argument that...

[jeheinz72]

I guess what I'm saying is Mau, you can't come out with this big post about how you've nailed a wolf (whether it's me or not, nevermind that I was the THIRD person you voted for today) saying essentially "This is it, this is the wolf we're all after yadda yadda yadda!" then someone else points a theory that doesn't name you or the person you claim to have red-handed and go "See, this person over here has it right, we should all do what he's doing!"

You're just flopping around trying to save your skin. Which is fine, I get that, but dude, it ain't workin'. You're caught.

[oliegirl]

I guess what I'm saying is Mau, you can't come out with this big post about how you've nailed a wolf (whether it's me or not, nevermind that I was the THIRD person you voted for today) saying essentially "This is it, this is the wolf we're all after yadda yadda yadda!" then someone else points a theory that doesn't name you or the person you claim to have red-handed and go "See, this person over here has it right, we should all do what he's doing!"

You're just flopping around trying to save your skin. Which is fine, I get that, but dude, it ain't workin'. You're caught.

+1

One of the hardest things I learned in WW was to keep my mouth shut, whether I was innocent or not...had you (Mau) not done the "I'm a golf buddy without a role...oops, I'm not a golf buddy, just a worker", then MAYBE when Arles posted what he did, some people might have been willing to move votes off you, or people like me who hadn't voted yet, would have put a vote on someone else. But the more you tried to save yourself, the worse it got and then no one has any trust in you. It's so tempting to start posting trying to spin something and get people to believe you, but most of the time, it just backfires.

[The Jackal]

Mau, mau. You didn't leave people much choice. If you are a regular worker, damn you for distracting us for a day - but at this point I don't think anyone is going to decide it's worth letting you slide on this day.

Vote Mau

Path is next on my list.

[mauchow]

Which is fine, I'm out already unless people show some remorse for my clumsy play(as Arlie put it) and actually go after a wolf. I'm not 'caught' Heinz, as I am just a normal worker. Nothing is happening with this vote at all. It doesn't benefit the workers to lose another worker, then the wolves get to knock out another one of us. It's better to go off some evidence rather than my mindless rambles.

I'm sorry I voted you but it was just a vibe I got, simple as that. I'd vote for everyone because you're all voting for me. I'm not a wolf so that makes all of you wolves in my eyes.

It has been fun though and like many have said, I'll learn. Hopefully.

[mauchow]

Mau, mau. You didn't leave people much choice. If you are a regular worker, damn you for distracting us for a day - but at this point I don't think anyone is going to decide it's worth letting you slide on this day.

Vote Mau

Path is next on my list.

I've apologized about 10 times now because I already have wasted everyone's day. Everyone but the wolves. It isn't something I wanted to do, and its too late. It sucks.

[path12]

Path is next on my list.

Got any actual reasons for that or just picking a worker at random?

[Lathum]

Arles, since it has been proven you are the fool I really see no reason why you or anyone else should have any faith in your scans.

And I second what Olie said, Mau's bumbling reveal sealed it for me.

[The Jackal]

Got any actual reasons for that or just picking a worker at random?

Actually I was following Arles' reasoning, and since he's almost undoubtedly the fool, he's definitely one of the good guys, and the beginning of a possible circle of trust. Being that we've lost the observor and seer though, I don't think that circle can expand.

If I was dead certain you were a wolf though, path, my vote would be on you today.

[mauchow]

I explained why I did it and it would've worked better for the workers. I don't get lynched, we lynch someone else who may be a wolf, because I'm not, then the wolves take me out anyways and I at least helped us out a little bit. Obviously it backfired with an extra post, but whatever, it happened already.

I've accepted the fact that I'm getting lynched tonight, I'll hopefully change my silly habits for the next game around. End of story. Moving on.

[jeheinz72]

Which is fine, I'm out already unless people show some remorse for my clumsy play(as Arlie put it) and actually go after a wolf. I'm not 'caught' Heinz, as I am just a normal worker. Nothing is happening with this vote at all. It doesn't benefit the workers to lose another worker, then the wolves get to knock out another one of us. It's better to go off some evidence rather than my mindless rambles.

I'm sorry I voted you but it was just a vibe I got, simple as that. I'd vote for everyone because you're all voting for me. I'm not a wolf so that makes all of you wolves in my eyes.

It has been fun though and like many have said, I'll learn. Hopefully.

It's really not about the fact that your vote is on me, it's more about my vote is on you and I've got no reason to change it. Each post you make really just further entrenches my vote. As Olie or someone said, our hand is almost forced.

If you are a worker, then I don't really know what to say, you've managed to completely act like a wolf.

If you're a wolf well then YAY for us and BOO for you.

[Lathum]

Mau, I for one am glad you did what you did.

It took heat of me for the day

[jeheinz72]

Actually I was following Arles' reasoning, and since he's almost undoubtedly the fool, he's definitely one of the good guys, and the beginning of a possible circle of trust. Being that we've lost the observor and seer though, I don't think that circle can expand.

If I was dead certain you were a wolf though, path, my vote would be on you today.

I kind of get what you're saying here.

I mean while Arles is clearly the Fool and I believe him to be on my side, I'm getting wary of people who are all about wanting to do anything based on his scans. The smells of wolfish manipulation to me.

[mauchow]

It's really not about the fact that your vote is on me, it's more about my vote is on you and I've got no reason to change it. Each post you make really just further entrenches my vote. As Olie or someone said, our hand is almost forced.

If you are a worker, then I don't really know what to say, you've managed to completely act like a wolf.

If you're a wolf well then YAY for us and BOO for you.

Just think about it. I played a pretty decent wolf in my first ever game of Mafia, I was quiet and saying the right things. I don't have a role now and I'm just itching to get crap started. I'm 3 for 3 now in having no role and completely fucking it up.

I'm a worker and I've completely acted like a wolf, no doubt about it.

[The Jackal]

I kind of get what you're saying here.

I mean while Arles is clearly the Fool and I believe him to be on my side, I'm getting wary of people who are all about wanting to do anything based on his scans. The smells of wolfish manipulation to me.

I'm not talking about his scans, it was his analysis of voting trends that led him to path. There's no reason to trust his scans.

[mauchow]

Mau, I for one am glad you did what you did.

It took heat of me for the day

Saying something like that is going to get the heat right back on you Lathum. Everyone should just be quiet for the rest of the day so not to deter the light back onto them.

[jeheinz72]

All PM roles are out.

Also, thoughts on weekend scheduling.

My thinking was to go with one day for the weekend, to conclude early evening Sunday, maybe 4 p.m. PDT/7 p.m. EST? And then back to regular schedule for Monday.


Anyone have thoughts on this?

I do have some. Any chance we can do Monday for the next deadline? I'll be visiting my grandma in hospice care this weekend (it's been coming for awhile, but I of course want to spend some more time with her).

At most over the weekend I'd be able to get a vote in (and likely a very uninformed one).

Anyone else have a weekend conflict? If it's just me then I'm ok with just voting and that's it.

[The Jackal]

Just think about it. I played a pretty decent wolf in my first ever game of Mafia, I was quiet and saying the right things. I don't have a role now and I'm just itching to get crap started. I'm 3 for 3 now in having no role and completely fucking it up.

I'm a worker and I've completely acted like a wolf, no doubt about it.

You don't have to apologize, it's whatever. You've already said in about five posts you know you messed up and you know you're gonna get lynched. No need to defend yourself anymore, really. If you are a regular worker then oh well, we can kind of afford one slip up after two hits in a row. But only because keeping you around another day would probably be counter-productive, even if you are a regular worker.

[jeheinz72]

I'm not talking about his scans, it was his analysis of voting trends that led him to path. There's no reason to trust his scans.

Oh I thought that his path to path was based on his using his scan to exclude someone in his reasoning. I'll have to dig up the post.

[The Jackal]

I do have some. Any chance we can do Monday for the next deadline? I'll be visiting my grandma in hospice care this weekend (it's been coming for awhile, but I of course want to spend some more time with her).

At most over the weekend I'd be able to get a vote in (and likely a very uninformed one).

Anyone else have a weekend conflict? If it's just me then I'm ok with just voting and that's it.

I'll probably be busy all of saturday and sunday (friends visiting), actually I'm going to be working on Sunday from 2-5ish, so I'd certainly miss the deadline. Monday would be good with me too.

[The Jackal]

Oh I thought that his path to path was based on his using his scan to exclude someone in his reasoning. I'll have to dig up the post.

You could be right, and if you are, my suspicions on path are going to lessen extremely. There have just been so many posts that I may be confusing things. Let me know if you find it.

[jeheinz72]

You could be right, and if you are, my suspicions on path are going to lessen extremely. There have just been so many posts that I may be confusing things. Let me know if you find it.

Actually it was his post above that he voted Pass. He used his scan result to clear Mau and vote Pass since they acted hand in hand. To me, that's pretty careless.

I mean I guess it could coincidentally be accurate, but I'd actually think that Mau and Pass are on the same side. So I don't get how he can clear Mau on his random-view and then indict Pass.

But that's really neither here nor there. I'm thinking we lynch Mau, if he's bad, we go for Pass. If he's good, we regroup after this wasted day.

[The Jackal]

Agreed. Can we vote nightfall or something?

[oliegirl]

I do have some. Any chance we can do Monday for the next deadline? I'll be visiting my grandma in hospice care this weekend (it's been coming for awhile, but I of course want to spend some more time with her).

At most over the weekend I'd be able to get a vote in (and likely a very uninformed one).

Anyone else have a weekend conflict? If it's just me then I'm ok with just voting and that's it.

I'm going to be busy over the weekend and away from the computer most of it...I'd rather wait for a Sunday night deadline, and then pick up on Monday as usual. I hate to waste all weekend...not sure when you are coming back, but if you could catch up on Sunday and get a vote in, that might work better than skipping the weekend all together.

[The Jackal]

I'm going to be busy over the weekend and away from the computer most of it...I'd rather wait for a Sunday night deadline, and then pick up on Monday as usual. I hate to waste all weekend...not sure when you are coming back, but if you could catch up on Sunday and get a vote in, that might work better than skipping the weekend all together.

Sunday at like 10 PM would be fine with me, as would Monday at noonish.

[jeheinz72]

I'm going to be busy over the weekend and away from the computer most of it...I'd rather wait for a Sunday night deadline, and then pick up on Monday as usual. I hate to waste all weekend...not sure when you are coming back, but if you could catch up on Sunday and get a vote in, that might work better than skipping the weekend all together.

Yeah, I hate to waste the weekend too, I totally get that.

I can definitely get a vote in (worst-case from my phone) at some point between the deadline tonight and a deadline Sunday night. Much beyond that though, I couldn't do, which is fine. My analysis has hardly been spot-on this game.

[path12]

If I was dead certain you were a wolf though, path, my vote would be on you today.

Fair enough. I'm not, but you wouldn't expect me to say anything else, right? ;)

[Passacaglia]

I'll be pretty busy, too. I have some friends coming in town for a surprise birthday party for lurker (no one tell her!), and they'll be staying with us all weekend, so I don't think I'll get as much chance to get away and check out what's going on in here. I'll probably get a vote in if I need to, but not much else.

[path12]

Saying something like that is going to get the heat right back on you Lathum. Everyone should just be quiet for the rest of the day so not to deter the light back onto them.

I disagree with that statement. Best thing you can do as a vanilla worker is to go after people even if it ends up lynching you. You save village role players and now and again catch a wolf.

[Lathum]

Saying something like that is going to get the heat right back on you Lathum. Everyone should just be quiet for the rest of the day so not to deter the light back onto them.

i know what I'm doing

[Lathum]

It looks like a sunday 10PM deadline is what works best for everyone

[mauchow]

i know what I'm doing

And I apparently don't. :D

[mauchow]

It looks like a sunday 10PM deadline is what works best for everyone

Yep, works for me too.

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think the linkage of SnDvls and Passacaglia in voting is very suspicious.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

Considering the runaway on mauboy1, I'd like to cast a more interesting vote.

[oliegirl]

I'll be pretty busy, too. I have some friends coming in town for a surprise birthday party for lurker (no one tell her!), and they'll be staying with us all weekend, so I don't think I'll get as much chance to get away and check out what's going on in here. I'll probably get a vote in if I need to, but not much else.


Ummm, why were we not invited to this party? Do you not care about your FOFC friends???? :(

Have fun and tell her Happy Birthday!

[Arles]

Actually it was his post above that he voted Pass. He used his scan result to clear Mau and vote Pass since they acted hand in hand. To me, that's pretty careless.
That's not what I am saying at all. For Mau, 75% of why i think he's clear is because of his behavior. It's too "busy" for a wolf. 25% is the fact that he cleared the scan last night. For Pass, his vote from RendeR to Fink in the 11th hour and the immediate post on Farrah the next morning (beginning that run) is what led me to think he's a wolf. Scans are basically irrelevant to me unless it's a tie in all other logic.

I mean I guess it could coincidentally be accurate, but I'd actually think that Mau and Pass are on the same side. So I don't get how he can clear Mau on his random-view and then indict Pass.
I disagree completely. There's no way Pass and Mau are stupid enough to both be on the same side and vote right after each other on the same person for multiple days straight. I'm thinking that one is a wolf and one is safe.

But that's really neither here nor there. I'm thinking we lynch Mau, if he's bad, we go for Pass. If he's good, we regroup after this wasted day.
Again, I think the opposite. If Mau is a wolf, then I would say that helps Pass. The odds that both are the same faction and been tied at the hip like this is unlikely. However, if Mau is a villager, then that means he's been following Pass' logic that has voted off two crew wolves - not knowing that Pass is a wolf.

I'm OK with voting Mau off as I think either him or Pass are a wolf (but not both). So, if Mau is the wolf - good, maybe we spare Pass. But, if Mau is indeed a villager, I think Pass must be a wolf. So, to update my "hit-list", I would do:

1. Mau/Pass (one is a wolf, one a villager)
2. Path12
3. Lathum

Lathum may be the fish and here's why. If you go with my assumption that Pass is a wolf, on the first day both Pass and SnDvls voted for Lathum. That to me means he was not on their "team" then. Then, on the second day, Lathum went from getting 5 votes to 1 and all 3 of SnDvls, Lathum and Pass voted for Fink. IMO, something happened between day 1 and day 2 to adjust those votes (fish?).

[jeheinz72]

I'd agree on that Lathum point, and I suppose I get what you are saying about Pass's vote. Did Mau vote Fink that day too?

And that 25% should be 0%, IMO.

[claphamsa]

ill be in NY with no interweb!

I do have some. Any chance we can do Monday for the next deadline? I'll be visiting my grandma in hospice care this weekend (it's been coming for awhile, but I of course want to spend some more time with her).

At most over the weekend I'd be able to get a vote in (and likely a very uninformed one).

Anyone else have a weekend conflict? If it's just me then I'm ok with just voting and that's it.

[Lathum]

i am not the fish, people

[Arles]

I'd agree on that Lathum point, and I suppose I get what you are saying about Pass's vote. Did Mau vote Fink that day too?
Yeah, both Mau and Pass switched to Fink in the final 5 minutes.

And that 25% should be 0%, IMO.
I don't know about that. Just because it's random doesn't mean it's not ever correct. If I think Pass and Mau are each 50-50 to be a wolf, but only one is - and I have a scan that says Mau is safe, why not use it as the deciding factor?

At any rate, even without the scan I think Pass has a higher chance at being a wolf. But, I'll find out based on Mau's result so I don't know that it matters.

[path12]

Stupid question for this far in the game, but are we sure the fish knows who they are?

[Passacaglia]

Stupid question for this far in the game, but are we sure the fish knows who they are?

I've been wondering that, too. The rules don't say he does.

[Dr. Sak]

i am not the fish, people

What are you then?

[claphamsa]

looks like a caribu to me!

[path12]

Lathum may be the fish and here's why. If you go with my assumption that Pass is a wolf, on the first day both Pass and SnDvls voted for Lathum. That to me means he was not on their "team" then. Then, on the second day, Lathum went from getting 5 votes to 1 and all 3 of SnDvls, Lathum and Pass voted for Fink. IMO, something happened between day 1 and day 2 to adjust those votes (fish?).

Here's my issue with this line of thinking.

We know that SnDvls and Fink were on different teams. That means that they knew exactly who the other one was all the time. SnDvls moving to Fink doesn't mean that Lathum was the fish, it simply means that he had an opportunity to off a wolf on the other team, which he jumped on. Lathum could be a fish, a worker, or a wolf still for all we know.

I think what's happening more is that after day 1 some wolves started to see how they could be outed by vote pattern and started just moving around to whichever opportunity presented itself -- if a villager, great; if a wolf on the other team, better; if a wolf on their own team, camoflage if it looked like they couldn't be saved. I'll be very interested when this all shakes out to see if there was a Crew member who voted for Fink. I suspect there is.

[path12]

Oh, for the record

VOTE MAU

We can't move forward until we know what he is.

[mauchow]

unvote jeheinz
vote pass

Whatever. I don't think either of us are wolves, but you guys are thinking differently.

And once again, this has been a wasted day big time and there is no doubt that I'm to blame. Hopefully it doesn't cost us the game.

[Passacaglia]

unvote jeheinz
vote pass

Whatever. I don't think either of us are wolves, but you guys are thinking differently.

And once again, this has been a wasted day big time and there is no doubt that I'm to blame. Hopefully it doesn't cost us the game.

If you don't think I'm a wolf, why are you voting for me?

[mauchow]

Because there is a better chance that you're a wolf than me. I know I was going to vote for you, but, the off chance of having other people switch... whatever, its over for me anyways.

[mauchow]

was- wasn't

[Passacaglia]

Because there is a better chance that you're a wolf than me. I know I was going to vote for you, but, the off chance of having other people switch... whatever, its over for me anyways.

:confused: I'm not saying you should vote for yourself. There's a better chance that I'm a wolf than you? I am so lost.

[Lathum]

unvote mau
vote Pass

[Passacaglia]

unvote mau
vote Pass

This will be interesting.

[mauchow]

:confused: I'm not saying you should vote for yourself. There's a better chance that I'm a wolf than you? I am so lost.

Yes, since I'm not a wolf, therefore the chances of you being a wolf is greater.

[Passacaglia]

Yes, since I'm not a wolf, therefore the chances of you being a wolf is greater.

That seems like an odd way to put it. And doesn't really explain why you voted me -- if that's the way you really feel, isn't that statement true for everyone?

[oliegirl]

For someone who said he wasn't going to post again until 15 minutes before deadline, Mau sure has been rambling a lot today...deadline is at 9 tonight, right?

[Lathum]

yes, 9 pm

[Chief Rum]

Day 4 Count (as of Post 1082)

mauboy1 (11)-- Passacaglia (954), Alan T (963), claphamsa (971), ntndeacon (977), Schmidty (989), bsak16 (991), jeheinz (992), Render (999), oliegirl (1027), The Jackal (1032), path12 (1074)
Passacaglia (4)-- Arles (1022), Mr. Wednesday (1062), mauboy1 (1075), Lathum (1080)


Vote count with about a half hour left.

[Lathum]

anyone have a vote count?

[Passacaglia]

anyone have a vote count?

Look above you.

[Lathum]

ask and you shall receive

[Passacaglia]

ask and you shall receive

anyone want to tell me who the wolves are? ;)

[oliegirl]

anyone want to tell me who the wolves are? ;)

LOL...good one pass!

[Chief Rum]

ask and you shall receive

Technically, it was receive and then ask. :)

[Lathum]

anyone want to tell me who the wolves are? ;)

like you don't know

[Passacaglia]

like you don't know

no seriously dood all i got is king-nine

[Lathum]

I think if there is gonna be a conversion it should be tonight

[Passacaglia]

DAMNIT!!!!

I should have said srsly

[Passacaglia]

oh, and maybe "eye" instead of "i"

[Lathum]

no seriously dood all i got is king-nine

and I know that!!!

which is why I AM NO FISH

[mauchow]

For someone who said he wasn't going to post again until 15 minutes before deadline, Mau sure has been rambling a lot today...deadline is at 9 tonight, right?

Yeah, I got bored and wanted to reply to a few posts. Sorry. :)

I just thought there was some hope left when people started voting Pass.

[Lathum]

god that was a great call

[mauchow]

What are you saying to god?

[mauchow]

Oh, you're playing Poker. I get it now. Sorry.

[Lathum]

Oh, you're playing Poker. I get it now. Sorry.

i hardly would call what we were playing poker

[mauchow]

Okay guys and gals. Good luck the rest of the way.

My role is just a normal worker. And one last time, or maybe once more after this, I'm sorry for the wasted day due to my poor play.

[mauchow]

Arlie was right, I was a good guy. :(

[Chief Rum]

Deadline.

[Chief Rum]

Day 4 Count (as of Post 1082)

mauboy1 (11)-- Passacaglia (954), Alan T (963), claphamsa (971), ntndeacon (977), Schmidty (989), bsak16 (991), jeheinz (992), Render (999), oliegirl (1027), The Jackal (1032), path12 (1074)
Passacaglia (4)-- Arles (1022), Mr. Wednesday (1062), mauboy1 (1075), Lathum (1080)


Vote count with about a half hour left.

No new votes since the above vote count, so this is official. Writeup coming.

[Passacaglia]

i hardly would call what we were playing poker

just like me at bw3

[Lathum]

just like me at bw3

thats what I was rerering to

[Passacaglia]

god damn i hate waiting

[Passacaglia]

thats what I was rerering to

gotcha -- well it was Neon who messed it up anyway!

[claphamsa]

mmmmm jaggermeister!

[Chief Rum]

The office numbers dwindle for one more day. Spirits are higher with the numbers of wolves going down, but the loss of the Gossip and the knowledge more members of the Crew and Cougars are still around only amps up the pressure.

Today, everyone decides to focus that one pressure one worker, who was seen foolishly spouting off about office politics a little bit louder than whisper level early in the morning.

Is the worker guilty? Some think so. Some don't care. And the wolves will kill anyone.

mauboy1 is FIRED in a landslide...but, alas, he was naught but a regular worker!

The office is a buzz at this surprise, for most were at least a little certain of their choice. The queasiness settles in, as you all know the Boss still has one more cut to make today.

This time, he doesn't even bother with the office, and goes straight to Arles' desk.

"Son, you just talk too much and do too little. I can't afford to keep you around anymore. Please gather your things and collect your last paycheck at HR," he said gruffly before going back to the office.

Arles is utterly shocked, protesting there is no way someone as important as he could be fired! And, yet, he is.

Arles was the Fool! And the Department loses another one today.

Role PMs coming.

[Lathum]

gotcha -- well it was Neon who messed it up anyway!

I thought you were all terrible, but what do know.

not like I play poker for a living

[Passacaglia]

Well, crap.

[mauchow]

A huge different turn out compared to last night. LOL Only four people viewing the thread. Well, five now.

There is a role out there to change the outcome of the vote, isn't there? Maybe it was used smartly tonight.

[Lathum]

well that sucked.

hopefully mauboy learned something

[Passacaglia]

well that sucked.

hopefully mauboy learned something

Yeah, dude. I'll have to ask you about that after the game.

[claphamsa]

hes from wisconsin learnning is beyond him!

[mauchow]

hes from wisconsin learnning is beyond him!

Apparently the same goes for Marylanders as well.

[Lathum]

I owe someone a thank you

[Arles]

I guess I was on to something - it's a shame I couldn't see it through. Any rate, good luck to the remaining workers!

[Chief Rum]

Now, as to the deadline, this is a tough one.

Pass doesn't say he can't get to the Internet, just that it will be hard. I can see it being very hard for jeheinz72 and clap, and I mostly troubled by jeheinz's situation.

But I am also looking at going from a slightly early deadline tonight to a very late deadline Monday night (which is a two-job day for me). That is just far too long to keep people (more than 72 hours!) on one day with nothing going.

Here's my compromise. I'm going to run the Day Five sim early, early Monday morning, my time. 4 a.m. PDT MON (7 a.m. EST). Hopefully this will give the weekenders a chance to check in and vote.

And then I will run the Day Six sim late MON night, as scheduled, with the 10 p.m. EST/7 p.m. PDT deadline in effect (although I won't be able to run out for 2-3 hours after that).

Best solution I can think of without just completely cutting one way or another, so I hope that will work for you guys.

[Passacaglia]

Sounds good.

[Schmidty]

Disaster. :(

[Alan T]

Just got home, sorry I've been gone all day since this morning. I don't really have alot to add from yesterday though, since we didn't really learn alot from this vote today.

I'm going to continue on my train of thought though. I have a really hard time believing of the group who voted off both Fink and Farrah that Sndvls was the only wolf, so think either both The Jackal and Passacaglia are wolves, or I have a 50/50 chance of getting one of them.

Deciding between the two, I have my thoughts about the jackal that I brought up yesterday stating how Jeheinz was pretty solid after him, and Jeheinz seems to come across as a member of Farrah/Fink's team so far based on what I put together last night. To balance that though, I feel even stronger about Mr.Wednesday's being a part of Farrah/Fink's team and he seems pretty strong after Passacaglia today.

To couple that with Arles also being pretty strong after Passacaglia, I'm going to go there with my vote, I feel I have a better chance of him being a wolf than The Jackal (unless both are wolves) at this point.

Want to get this in before the weekend. It is my weekend with the girls, so I have to drive a few hours to Connecticut on Sunday and I'm not sure if I'll get back tommorrow night or not.

Vote Passacaglia

[oliegirl]

Damn damn damn. I know he's a newbie and all but damn, I wish Mau hadn't turned suspicion on him early on today and put us in the position he did...I know he apologized and all but damn damn damn.

I'll check in tomorrow afternoon or night to see what is going on...I won't be home most of the day tomorrow.

[Passacaglia]

Just got home, sorry I've been gone all day since this morning. I don't really have alot to add from yesterday though, since we didn't really learn alot from this vote today.

I'm going to continue on my train of thought though. I have a really hard time believing of the group who voted off both Fink and Farrah that Sndvls was the only wolf, so think either both The Jackal and Passacaglia are wolves, or I have a 50/50 chance of getting one of them.

Deciding between the two, I have my thoughts about the jackal that I brought up yesterday stating how Jeheinz was pretty solid after him, and Jeheinz seems to come across as a member of Farrah/Fink's team so far based on what I put together last night. To balance that though, I feel even stronger about Mr.Wednesday's being a part of Farrah/Fink's team and he seems pretty strong after Passacaglia today.

To couple that with Arles also being pretty strong after Passacaglia, I'm going to go there with my vote, I feel I have a better chance of him being a wolf than The Jackal (unless both are wolves) at this point.

Want to get this in before the weekend. It is my weekend with the girls, so I have to drive a few hours to Connecticut on Sunday and I'm not sure if I'll get back tommorrow night or not.

Vote Passacaglia

There are some things in this post that really don't seem to jive with me, but I think I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to really look into it more. All I can say is that I'm good. I think the public opinion was that mau and I couldn't have been collaborating in our votes -- which is true, since we're both villagers. Mau said something that struck me as odd earlier this evening -- something about how I have a better chance than him of being a wolf. I was mostly just messing with him because I thought he was a wolf then (yeah, my bad), but it seemed weird to me, since the fact that he piled on right after me both times (and even asked me to change my vote once before piling on) made him seem much more wolflike, especially given the way he was acting and the lies he was telling last night. I think most of you guys can see that it was an honest mistake.

[RendeR]

Unfortunately Pass, honest mistakes in werewolf games get you hung.

I'll post a vote on Sunday at some point.

[Schmidty]

Unfortunately Pass, honest mistakes in werewolf games get you hung.

I'll post a vote on Sunday at some point.

I'll be waiting with bated breath!!!!!!

[Passacaglia]

Just got home, sorry I've been gone all day since this morning. I don't really have alot to add from yesterday though, since we didn't really learn alot from this vote today.

I'm going to continue on my train of thought though. I have a really hard time believing of the group who voted off both Fink and Farrah that Sndvls was the only wolf, so think either both The Jackal and Passacaglia are wolves, or I have a 50/50 chance of getting one of them.

Deciding between the two, I have my thoughts about the jackal that I brought up yesterday stating how Jeheinz was pretty solid after him, and Jeheinz seems to come across as a member of Farrah/Fink's team so far based on what I put together last night. To balance that though, I feel even stronger about Mr.Wednesday's being a part of Farrah/Fink's team and he seems pretty strong after Passacaglia today.

VOTE ALAN T

To couple that with Arles also being pretty strong after Passacaglia, I'm going to go there with my vote, I feel I have a better chance of him being a wolf than The Jackal (unless both are wolves) at this point.

Want to get this in before the weekend. It is my weekend with the girls, so I have to drive a few hours to Connecticut on Sunday and I'm not sure if I'll get back tommorrow night or not.

Vote Passacaglia

So here's what struck me about your post: You suspected JE as coming across as a member of the Farrah/fink team. That struck me as odd immediately, since I thought he voted FOR both Farrah and fink. I went back and did some digging, and it he put the first vote in for fink. He didn't vote for Farrah, but he talked about it a lot. Plus, he voted WITH Farrah on Day 1 -- both of them voted for The Jackal. I could see all this evidence pointing either way.

But this made me take notice of your voting history, Alan. You had the 3rd vote on Farrah, and the post in which you voted seemed to indicate that you were already setting someone else up to take the fall. Post #750:

*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo.

Just remember, when one wolf team has all of the people and easily walk through us because we have no seer left that it wasn't my fault we lost.

Unvote Jeheinz
Vote Farrah


At this time, there were only two villagers with votes on Farrah -- me and my sidekick mau. Your vote for Farrah made it 3 to a couple 1s, and things just sort of snowballed. I think it's strange how you make it seem like you're defending Farrah, while you're actually helping kill her -- if you look like you're defending her, you avoid suspicion when we come after the other team, which appeared to be me and mau. Then the coup de grace -- Arles dies overnight, my biggest accuser. I think things are pointing to me a little too neatly, and artificially so.

[Passacaglia]

whoops...my vote got stuck in a quote.

VOTE ALAN T

[Lathum]

I agree with Pass,it's all to convienient

[Lathum]

NTNDeacon has been very UTR.

I forgot he was playing

[path12]

As I've said from early in the game, one thing that is going to stand out to me in this one are players who seem to have an agenda against particular other players. I think that is where wolves are likely to be since they know which team everyone is on. I also think that a newer player who might be a wolf would try and stay out of the fray for the most part and hope to avoid scrutiny for as long as possible.


I always thought a wolf would try to not be noticed as much as possible, just blend into the surroundings,

Maybe by voting Lathum every day except for the Mau runaway yesterday? That'd be a great way to hide your vote. Especially if you're on the crew, since you also stay out of the scrutiny of actually voting anyone off. In addition, just going through your posts you've also pointed fingers at me, Olie, The Jackal and RendeR. Looks to me that you've got plenty of accusations to make but want to hide from the actual vote record.

VOTE BSAK

I'll be shocked if you're not a wolf.

[Dr. Sak]

I still think Lathum is the fish and a wolf on one of the factions. I'll use his defense he has used, since everyone seems to not question him at all, by voting for Lathum yesterday it wouldn't have matter.

Lathum is a fish and now a wolf, and I wouldn't be surprised if Path is worried that one of his fellow wolf buddies is in trouble now that the spotlight has shifted towards him.

VOTE LATHUM

[Lathum]

I actualy think bsak could be the fish trying to get the wolves attention.

Like I said, if they were going to get the fish it would have been last night I think. The fact that there has been a kill every night leads me to believe there hasn't been a conversion yet.

[Lathum]

VOTE BSAK

[Dr. Sak]

I actualy think bsak could be the fish trying to get the wolves attention.

Like I said, if they were going to get the fish it would have been last night I think. The fact that there has been a kill every night leads me to believe there hasn't been a conversion yet.

It will come out at the end that you are the fish. I would bet tons of money on it.

[Lathum]

It will come out at the end that you are the fish. I would bet tons of money on it.

the only way I am the fish is if I don't know it.

And I'll take that wager, how about a sig bet?

[Dr. Sak]

What is your role then?

[Lathum]

What is your role then?

why wold you ask that question?

I never said I have a role.

[Passacaglia]

Question for both of you guys -- it seems like you're accusing the other of both being the fish, and not a wolf. From my point of view, they're both the same -- bad guys. From your point of view, though, you're drawing a distinction. What's the difference, and why do you think each other is the fish, and not a wolf?

[Lathum]

I see no difference, they are both bad and I would be happy to rid us of the fish

[Lathum]

The fact that BSak tried to get me to admit if I have a role and actually asked me to name my role screams bad guy to me.

[Passacaglia]

The fact that BSak tried to get me to admit if I have a role and actually asked me to name my role screams bad guy to me.

Yeah, I can't help but see where you're coming from on that one. Is it any better for us to be rid of the fish than a wolf, though? If you think he's the fish, when do you think he might have been converted?

[Lathum]

I don't think there has been a conversion

[Alan T]

So here's what struck me about your post: You suspected JE as coming across as a member of the Farrah/fink team. That struck me as odd immediately, since I thought he voted FOR both Farrah and fink. I went back and did some digging, and it he put the first vote in for fink. He didn't vote for Farrah, but he talked about it a lot. Plus, he voted WITH Farrah on Day 1 -- both of them voted for The Jackal. I could see all this evidence pointing either way.

But this made me take notice of your voting history, Alan. You had the 3rd vote on Farrah, and the post in which you voted seemed to indicate that you were already setting someone else up to take the fall. Post #750:

At this time, there were only two villagers with votes on Farrah -- me and my sidekick mau. Your vote for Farrah made it 3 to a couple 1s, and things just sort of snowballed. I think it's strange how you make it seem like you're defending Farrah, while you're actually helping kill her -- if you look like you're defending her, you avoid suspicion when we come after the other team, which appeared to be me and mau. Then the coup de grace -- Arles dies overnight, my biggest accuser. I think things are pointing to me a little too neatly, and artificially so.

You either are being very selective with your digging or I am right on my hunch about you being a wolf and you are selectively trying to choose your arguements. Either way you are wrong.

I have stated since the start of yesterday that I think Jeheinz is a member of Farrah/Fink's team and provided in detail why yesterday. Just to reiterate in case you honestly don't remember and its not a case of you trying to posture...

Jeheinz was the first to vote for Fink, however it was when others already had a vote and there was no clear direction in where people were going to go with their vote. In fact Fink really didn't have much of a target on him for most of that day, including when Jeheinz left for the day admittedly in the afternoon (his post that day said he was leaving for the day). At the time he left, Fink had hardly any pressure on him, and was just one of many that were pretty far behind Render in votes at the time. It was only after Jeheinz had left for the day and he couldn't do anything about it did Fink pick up steam. My thought here is that it was an attempt to throw a vote on a teammate early in a way that would come in handy later on in the game exactly how you are arguing right now.

I showed yesterday how the remainder of Jeheinz actions had been almost in line with Farrah/fink's team. If you want me to go back to the post I made about it yesterday I can, but I'm short on time tonight and would rather people interested in it, go reference it from the previous day.

As for where you try to divert attention from yourself back to me about my vote for Farrah.. you really have to make up your mind whether you want to argue that I was defending her or trying to kill her.. you can't honestly try to argue both here. Once again anyone who wants can go back to the arguement that morning.. Your arguement was that we need to kill Farrah ASAP.. My arguement was that I thought both her as well as some of your group (You, Mau, the Jackal) were wolves and that I didn't want to see one team far ahead of the other. I got frustrated that absolutely no one other than Arles has been siding with me on that though this game and changed to kill Farrah. I still stand by what I said though, I'm happy we're killing wolves, but everyone is going to come back and have to admit I was right at some point if we get stuck behind the 8-ball with one team eliminated and no sure clues where to go for the other team.

The way I see it right now, only Arles and I were arguing that point strong, and he got killed off. And I figure that I am likely going to be next.

I actualy think bsak could be the fish trying to get the wolves attention.

Like I said, if they were going to get the fish it would have been last night I think. The fact that there has been a kill every night leads me to believe there hasn't been a conversion yet.

You keep bringing this up, but the rules seem to state to me that conversions can happen independant of kills this game. I don't think you can go by no nights without a kill as proof of no conversion this time around.

Game Roles & Rules
Also each day, the Crew and the Cougars will have the opportunity to seek out the Fish and convince him to join their side. More on the Fish in the department roles.



I already put together my reasons the previous day why I felt you were unlikely to be a wolf Lathum, and while a conversion can always come in and throw off any circle of trust or start of one, I've always always argued in every WW game that it is crazy to try to suddenly hunt down where a conversion might have come in to effect and who it would have been. I have always felt you hunt down the wolves that started off the game and then worry about the possible conversions... You may or may not be the fish, heck if I know and honestly I think it is foolish for us to worry about it right now. We have 5 people that I put together thoughts on that lead strongly to possibly being a wolf that we need to look at closer. (I had 6 with mauboy in there previously. The other 5 are Passacaglia, The Jackal, Jeheinz, Mr.Wednesday and I had some thoughts about ntndeacon).

Do I think that is all of the wolves? Probably not, I also think there probably are villagers in the bunch too that I am wrong on, but we have to start somewhere, and we can either go with people's patterns so far this game, or we can guess blindly. I am choosing the former.

[Passacaglia]

As for where you try to divert attention from yourself back to me about my vote for Farrah.. you really have to make up your mind whether you want to argue that I was defending her or trying to kill her.. you can't honestly try to argue both here. Once again anyone who wants can go back to the arguement that morning.. Your arguement was that we need to kill Farrah ASAP.. My arguement was that I thought both her as well as some of your group (You, Mau, the Jackal) were wolves and that I didn't want to see one team far ahead of the other. I got frustrated that absolutely no one other than Arles has been siding with me on that though this game and changed to kill Farrah. I still stand by what I said though, I'm happy we're killing wolves, but everyone is going to come back and have to admit I was right at some point if we get stuck behind the 8-ball with one team eliminated and no sure clues where to go for the other team.

Sorry Alan, I should have been more clear in my argument. I wasn't trying to argue both that you were defending her and trying to kill her -- I was arguing that you were trying to kill her, while making it seem to us like you were defending her. You put in the vote, knowing a bandwagon would ensue (because she had been scanned), but did it in a way to try to make it seem like you're not on the team against her.

NOW you say you thought that her as well as some of me, mau, and The Jackal were wolves, but that's why I quoted your post earlier. You said:

"*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo."

You're not exactly brimming with confidence here. To your credit, you warned against killing two wolves from the same team, but you made sure to make it seem like you weren't the one against them. But why all the hesitation, and the implication that the people accusing Farrah had some kind of inside information? I told you why I thought Farrah was a wolf -- the seer put in a vote for her first thing in the morning. I mentioned how he plays as the seer in the Willy Wonka game -- did you go back to look at that? I saw that you were in that game, but maybe I remember it more than you, since I was pretty hard on him for voting saldana first thing in the morning two days in a row like that.

And yes, no one other than Arles had been siding with you, mostly because of mau's play. If he hadn't lied to me, then came out with a fake reveal, I'm sure it would have been a close race between the two of us. As it was, when mau came up good, Arles was definitely not going to be the only person on your side -- I'm sure a few others here would agree that they were already thinking yesterday that if mau came up good, they'd look at me (in fact, if I recall, a few might have mentioned it -- I'll look if you want). But none so much as Arles. His death seems like an attempt to make me look more wolfish, to finish me off.

[Alan T]

I didn't see people suddenly jump to kill Path earlier because of Barkeep's death, I don't think I've seen anyone yet say Arles was killed, he must have been right about Pass and that is proof! You are the only one who seems to be arguing that right now.

I am guessing Arles was killed simply because he was the only semi-cleared villager that everyone trusted. The fact that he agreed with me and would have voted with me is just plain inconvienant for me today.

[hoopsguy]

I thought you were all terrible, but what do know.

not like I play poker for a living

Hmmm, looks like someone is getting my Day 1 votes for a few games.

[Lathum]

Hmmm, looks like someone is getting my Day 1 votes for a few games.

heh

[Lathum]

I see bsak hanging around.

Why are you se sure I am the fish?

[Dr. Sak]

The fact that BSak tried to get me to admit if I have a role and actually asked me to name my role screams bad guy to me.

You and Pass seem kind of chummy lately. Just saying.

You keep saying that you aren't the fish. Fine, prove it. That's all I am saying. If you give me some good proof, I would leave you alone. I don't see what is so bad about that.

The fact that you seem so push and make accusations with little or no backings is just strange. You are relying solely on your past history in these games.

[Passacaglia]

You and Pass seem kind of chummy lately. Just saying.


huh?

[Lathum]

You keep saying that you aren't the fish. Fine, prove it. That's all I am saying. If you give me some good proof, I would leave you alone. I don't see what is so bad about that.

How on eartch could I possibly prove that?

The fact that you seem so push and make accusations with little or no backings is just strange. You are relying solely on your past history in these games.


funny because you are doing the exact same thing. I have repeatedly asked you why you think I am the fish and you have dodged the question.

As for my baseless accusations. I voted BS day one for the obvious reason. Day 2 I was on fink early and he was a wolf, which if I am the fish like you are claiming I would have no way of knowing that. Day 3 it was a runaway on Farrah so I voted for you instead, and I gave a plausable reason. Day 4 it was a runaway on Mau for obvious reasons.

All you have done is say "VOTE LATHUM" I KNOW he is the fish when you couldn't possibly know that.

I told you it has me believing you have an ulterior motive.

[claphamsa]

Im about to head out to NYC so i wont be checking in again till monday evening.....

[Passacaglia]

Im about to head out to NYC so i wont be checking in again till monday evening.....

You could have at least got a vote in today then! :p

[Passacaglia]

Anyway, the surprise party for lurker went great. It was hard to get her to the starbucks where everyone was waiting for her, and when I kept telling her I wanted to go there, she was pretty pissed that we had to do that instead of all the other stuff she wanted to do that day. But when we got there and she saw everyone, she was REALLY surprised.

And by the way, this whole thing was her friends' idea, not mine, so no fair suspecting me of being a wolf because of my surprising capabilities (though past games have probably helped :cool: ).

[Mr. Wednesday]

I voted Pass yesterday, and I'd be inclined to do so again today, but all the analysis from him and Alan has me confused.

[RendeR]

I'm beginning to think you're all wolves and I'm the only regular office worker left....

[Mr. Wednesday]

I don't know who the remaining wolves are, but I know that I'm not one of them. :)

[oliegirl]

Ugh. AlanT and Pass have traded votes, and Lathum and BSak have traded votes...NTN is MIA this game it seems - and all 5 of you have fooled me in previous games, with maybe the exception of BSak, I don't remember playing with him before. End result of this is that I really don't have a good feeling about any of you, it's completely possible you are all wolves.


VOTE LATHUM

[Lathum]

then why pick me Olie?

[Lathum]

Current Vote Count

PAssacaglia 1 ( AlanT 1126, )
AlaNT 1 ( Passacaglia 1132)
BSak 2 ( Path12 1135, Lathum 1138)
Lathum 2 ( Bsak 1136, OlieGirl 1163)


not voted yet claphamsa, JeHeinze, ntndeacon, MrWednesday, Schmidty, Render, TheJackyl)

as you can see still lots of non votes.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Ultimately, I feel like my reason for voting for Passacaglia yesterday still holds today, so I'm going to put my vote there again today. I'll be interested in looking a little more closely at Alan tomorrow.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

[oliegirl]

then why pick me Olie?

I've been suspicious of you for a while, I voted for you previously (maybe day 2???) and the reasons for suspecting you haven't been resolved. If you want to try to convince me why I should move my vote onto someone else, I'm willing to read it and give it consideration.

[Lathum]

I've been suspicious of you for a while, I voted for you previously (maybe day 2???) and the reasons for suspecting you haven't been resolved. If you want to try to convince me why I should move my vote onto someone else, I'm willing to read it and give it consideration.

well what do you make of bsaks persistence?

[Lathum]

lemme ask you this olie, you don't find it a little suspiscous that bsak asked me to reveal my role?

[oliegirl]

well what do you make of bsaks persistence?

I don't know what to make of anyone in this game...having 2 wolf factions is very difficult b/c it's not just villager/wolf, and no matter who you cast a vote for, you can look suspicious...even if that person ends up being a wolf.

No one has come out and given conclusive reasoning/evidence of their innocence. Lot's of "I'm not a wolf, I'm not the fish", etc. I've played with you enough times to know that you are a good player, and are experienced playing a wolf...so are AlanT and Pass. I've played a couple times with NTN, and he is unusually quiet this game which is definitely pinging my radar. But he has no votes on him and with as many people who haven't voted yet, I don't want to "waste" a vote on him...right now you and BSak are tied at 2, me voting for NTN would only create a 3 way tie for 2nd in votes...

I'm babbling, which Mau can attest is bad for WW play ;) I'm around for a while, watching the awards and winding down after a busy weekend...

[mauchow]

I'm babbling, which Mau can attest is bad for WW play ;) I'm around for a while, watching the awards and winding down after a busy weekend...

:( *Cries*

You can talk just don't do dumb talk. lol

/talk from the grave

[Lathum]

Well it's getting later and I can see a potential for some votes to go my way.

Since I am dead in the night phase anyway I may as well reveal that I am the bodyguard.

[RendeR]

I honestly don't see a really valid target out there at this point, however, Lathum, as ha been pointed out by numerous people, has been acting rather strange this game, sometimes his normal"make an argument for the sake of arguing" self and sometimes turning on his head and agreeing with someone.

I guess what it really comes down to is when all else Fails to provide strong evidence, some players are always good choices for elimination. Lathum is one of those players because he is both and excellent player no matter his role and he is a constant point of contention which is generally best eliminated before it destroys us all.

VOTE LATHUM


This was good when I posted it before and it still stands now.

VOTE LATHUM

[RendeR]

God Damnit.

[RendeR]

Damn you Lathum, damn you to hell.

[RendeR]

UNVOTE LATHUM



Damnit. DAMNIT....damnit.

[Lathum]

lol

I knew as soon as I saw Render in the thread he was gonna vote for me

[oliegirl]

Well it's getting later and I can see a potential for some votes to go my way.

Since I am dead in the night phase anyway I may as well reveal that I am the bodyguard.

Who did you guard which nights? If someone you were guarding was attacked, would they have been told? Trying to see if there is anyone who can vouch for you. Have you already BG'd yourself this game?


RendeR...what do you think? Is he telling the truth?

We need the Moment of Truth guy here to interrogate Lathum!!!! :mad:

[Lathum]

I protected myself last night, I find it odd there was still a night kill.

Bsak would know that if he was a wolf.

[Lathum]

Who did you guard which nights? If someone you were guarding was attacked, would they have been told? Trying to see if there is anyone who can vouch for you. Have you already BG'd yourself this game?


Night 1- oliegirl
Night 2-Lathum
Night 3 -Bsak
Night 4- Lathum

Day 4 I was hoping they would think I was the fish and they would go for me that night. They apparently did since they came for me, but for some reason still got a kill.

[Lathum]

by that night I mean night 4

[RendeR]

I don't see how he could reveal as the BG if he's lying it comes out almost immediately and he gets lynched. if he's not lying they kill him tonight anyway.

He's screwed.

its enough for me to let him be for at least one more night. We have until 7am for someone to counter his reveal but I really don't see that happening.

So lets take the opposites attract tack on this one and:

VOTE BSAK

[Alan T]

I protected myself last night, I find it odd there was still a night kill.

Bsak would know that if he was a wolf.

Like I said before, I showed where I felt you unlikely to be a wolf from the start based on people's voting, and since you are the bodyguard, that means you can't be the fish either. So without anyone arguing against that, I trust Lathum. (He already was on my fairly trusted list anyways for a few days as I've mentioned).

One thing I don't get Lathum, if there was night kills every night, obviously the wolves didn't hit anyone you have protected. How would bsak know you were the bodyguard if he was a wolf if they didn't target you? I haven't been sure what to think of you vs Bsak for a few days now so perhaps you can help me here understand this.

[oliegirl]

Night 1- oliegirl
Night 2-Lathum
Night 3 -Bsak
Night 4- Lathum

Day 4 I was hoping they would think I was the fish and they would go for me that night. They apparently did since they came for me, but for some reason still got a kill.

Why did you guard Bsak when you've been suspicious of him and are calling him a wolf? I'm a little puzzled by that...though I am touched that you guarded me night 1 ;)

So you've guarded yourself twice, and can't guard yourself 2 nights in a row, right? <sigh> What to do, what to do???

RendeR??? Any thoughts?

[Passacaglia]

I don't see a reason not to believe it.

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE BSAK16

[oliegirl]

UNVOTE RENDER

VOTE BSAK

[RendeR]

Look up two posts

[RendeR]

or 4

[Alan T]

I agree with Render, I dont see Lathum making this play as a wolf, if he was lying, the real bodyguard is still out there.

Unvote Passacaglia
Vote bsak

I still don't understand what happened last night though. Did you get a message that you were attacked? Is there some role in the game that has a night kill ability? (I'll have to go back and re-read through). Just trying to understand the play involved here.

[oliegirl]

Look up two posts

Yeah, we must have been posting at the same time :)

OK, my head is about to explode from trying to figure all this out...'night everyone!!!!

[Alan T]

Looking back through the rules and roles, I don't see any other role that has a kill action that I missed. I'll trust Lathum's reveal though and just wait for Chief to explain what happened after the game.

[Lathum]

One thing I don't get Lathum, if there was night kills every night, obviously the wolves didn't hit anyone you have protected. How would bsak know you were the bodyguard if he was a wolf if they didn't target you? I haven't been sure what to think of you vs Bsak for a few days now so perhaps you can help me here understand this.

Why did you guard Bsak when you've been suspicious of him and are calling him a wolf? I'm a little puzzled by that...though I am touched that you guarded me night 1 ;)

So you've guarded yourself twice, and can't guard yourself 2 nights in a row, right? <sigh> What to do, what to do???



To answer these questions.

I protected myself night 4 and received a PM along the lines that someone tried to get the boss to fire me. That led me to believe I protected myself, yet Arles was killed.

I protected bsak night 3 ( a wolf vs. wolf night) thinkink he may be a wolf. I figured this increased my chances. I was hoping if I had a succesfull block I may learn some info.

Bsak would know I was protected last night. I think he may be trying to get me lynched so they could pick another night target

[Lathum]

I spent the better part of the weekend trying to wrap my brain around how the night kills work and is there anyway they wouldn't know I protected myself last night.

I decided it would be better to not take info to the grave and if I got lynched tonight it would hurt us bad.

A least we have a shot at a wolf tonight then tomorrow night it will be wolf vs. wolf.

[bulletsponge]

*sneaks in to steal a stapler*

[The Jackal]

I just caught up and was already going to vote for bsak, then out comes this reveal. Interesting.

vote bsak

[Chief Rum]

UNVOTE RENDER

VOTE BSAK

I'm going to assume you meant to unvote Lathum here.

[Chief Rum]

Day 5 Count (as of Post 1196)

bsak16 (7)-- path12 (1135), Lathum (1138), Render (1182), Passacaglia (1185), oliegirl (1186), Alan T (1189), The Jackal (1195)
Lathum (1)-- bsak16 (1136)
Passacaglia (1)-- Mr. Wednesday (1166)

Not Voted: claphamsa, ntndeacon, Schmidty, jeheinz72


Here's a vote count to this point. Want to be ready for the morning when I get up.

[Schmidty]

Vote bsak

[ntndeacon]

Ugh. AlanT and Pass have traded votes, and Lathum and BSak have traded votes...NTN is MIA this game it seems - and all 5 of you have fooled me in previous games, with maybe the exception of BSak, I don't remember playing with him before. End result of this is that I really don't have a good feeling about any of you, it's completely possible you are all wolves.


VOTE LATHUM

no it is just the weekend and I forgot to post.

[ntndeacon]

interesting...
Vote Bsak

[ntndeacon]

question do we know if the fish knows he is a fish? or is it given to an ordinary worker, without thier knowledge?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I figure my vote doesn't count for much either way with the stampede on bsak, so I'll let it stand on Passacaglia as a continuing statement.

[ntndeacon]

I plan on voting with you tomorrow, Mr. Wednesday

[Chief Rum]

Deadline

[Chief Rum]

Day 5 Final Count

bsak16 (9)-- path12 (1135), Lathum (1138), Render (1182), Passacaglia (1185), oliegirl (1186), Alan T (1189), The Jackal (1195), Schmidty (1198), ntndeacon (1200)
Lathum (1)-- bsak16 (1136)
Passacaglia (1)-- Mr. Wednesday (1166)

Not Voted: claphamsa, jeheinz72

[Chief Rum]

Short and sweet today, guys. I have to get ready for work.

Bsak16 has been FIRED! He was a WOLF (The Crew)!

Shortly afterwards...

Lathum was FIRED by wolf influence! He was The Veteran!

Today is an all-day workday for me, as noted. From now forward, please reach me at mkieta@firstam.com until 3:30 p.m. PDT, after which just send it here, and I will get back to you when I return late tonight.

Deadline is 10 P.M. EST/7 A.M. PDT (still). I will process the day when I return around 2-3 hours later.

[Chief Rum]

Role PMs have been sent.

Today is a WOLF vs WOLF day!

[Alan T]

Nothing really changes my opinion from yesterday about who to vote for. Obviously Lathum made a reveal and like 4-5 people all voted with him at the same time. I actually didn't think bsak was a wolf, so am a little suprised this morning. I guess I'll have to wait till after the game for someone to explain what happened the previous night between bsak and lathum.

So bsak being a crew either means there are 4 wolves per side, or I'll have to re-evaluate my thoughts on a couple of people I felt could possibly be a wolf.

One question Chief before you go, if the fish is converted, and then killed do they show up as a wolf or a fish? Maybe Lathum was right that bsak was the fish afterall.

Either way, I notice mr.w still didn't vote for bsak, which once again has him voting in the interests of the crew. (Farrah, fink, bsak) even though it didn't matter for this vote. I still don't think its a good idea to go after him today. I'm sticking with my vote from yesterday for the same reasons I've given the past three days.

Vote Passacaglia

[Passacaglia]

I'm sticking with my vote from yesterday

Of course you are.

[jeheinz72]

Oy, sorry for not getting a vote in over the weekend. Got some bad news that made me basically ignore getting online.

Chief, is there any penalty for not voting? Just want to be sure before I get goin' too much.

Got caught up on the thread for the most part (gotta admit there was some skimmage). So are we thinking that there were FOUR wolves per side? If so that's insane. Or would we just not know that one side has been killed off? That really impacts how I'll vote tonight, though I think either way we need to see what we can do to get a cougar today.

[Passacaglia]

There's this idea that some players have that a vote should be "close." I'm not exactly against the idea, I just think sometimes its overrated.


I like the idea of a vote being close because it causes people to commit themselves for someone.. There are people who haven't voted yet, or might move their vote.. are they willing to put themselves on the line to save Render and condemn Fink, or save Fink and condemn Render, or go somewhere else and risk people claiming they were throwing away their vote to hide. It puts a bigger spotlight on people's reasons for what they do. If the vote is 8-3 or something, no one is going to risk anything really and you don't really gain anything.

I already have my suspicions on a few people from how Lathum escaped the lynch yesterday, I'll be interested to see how they play a part of today's vote which is possible because of how close it is. We can then start drawing lines to connect certain people based on those actions.

heh, you said that to someone with their vote on Farrah

I was looking for where Alan first started planting the seeds of his case against me -- this is post 486, 494, and 499. I don't think Alan was intending to go after me at this point, but I think he was waiting to see what would happen in the RendeR/fink vote, not really caring if a wolf or villager went (assuming RendeR is a villager). I also wonder if Alan had realized that cronin might have scanned Farrah the day before everyone else did, and that's why cronin died -- the team opposite Farrah killed him, in hopes of exposing Farrah as a wolf. And when I took the bait, Alan was there to start the campaign to "even the score" by pushing me.

[Passacaglia]

Oh, heh, and by the way....

VOTE ALAN T

[Lathum]

I love being right. ( I knew bsak smelled funny, allthough I have zero knowledge if he was the fish or a wolf from the start)

GL guys, at least something good came from my death.

[The Jackal]

Here's the situation, as far as I can tell.

If each faction had three wolves, there are two cougars left (+ possible fish)

If each faction had four wolves, there are three cougars, one crew, and the possibility of the fish.

So, it's a wolf vs wolf day. Does that mean there is definitely one member of the crew left? Will we know if we eliminate one of the factions entirely?

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I'd like to know if we find out when one group is gone.

[The Jackal]

ps claphamsa has been unusually quiet in this game

[ntndeacon]

Vote Pass

He has been someone of note for the last few days.

[Passacaglia]

Vote Pass

He has been someone of note for the last few days.

I wish you would put a bit more thought into it than that.

[oliegirl]

I wish you would put a bit more thought into it than that.

OK - why should we not vote for you? Save me the trouble of going through pages and pages of posts...tell me why a vote on you is wrong at this point...something other than "I'm a regular worker". And who do you think we should be voting for tonight?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T
Just got home, sorry I've been gone all day since this morning. I don't really have alot to add from yesterday though, since we didn't really learn alot from this vote today.

I'm going to continue on my train of thought though. I have a really hard time believing of the group who voted off both Fink and Farrah that Sndvls was the only wolf, so think either both The Jackal and Passacaglia are wolves, or I have a 50/50 chance of getting one of them.

Deciding between the two, I have my thoughts about the jackal that I brought up yesterday stating how Jeheinz was pretty solid after him, and Jeheinz seems to come across as a member of Farrah/Fink's team so far based on what I put together last night. To balance that though, I feel even stronger about Mr.Wednesday's being a part of Farrah/Fink's team and he seems pretty strong after Passacaglia today.

To couple that with Arles also being pretty strong after Passacaglia, I'm going to go there with my vote, I feel I have a better chance of him being a wolf than The Jackal (unless both are wolves) at this point.

Want to get this in before the weekend. It is my weekend with the girls, so I have to drive a few hours to Connecticut on Sunday and I'm not sure if I'll get back tommorrow night or not.

Vote Passacaglia

So here's what struck me about your post: You suspected JE as coming across as a member of the Farrah/fink team. That struck me as odd immediately, since I thought he voted FOR both Farrah and fink. I went back and did some digging, and it he put the first vote in for fink. He didn't vote for Farrah, but he talked about it a lot. Plus, he voted WITH Farrah on Day 1 -- both of them voted for The Jackal. I could see all this evidence pointing either way.

But this made me take notice of your voting history, Alan. You had the 3rd vote on Farrah, and the post in which you voted seemed to indicate that you were already setting someone else up to take the fall. Post #750:

Quote:
*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo.

Just remember, when one wolf team has all of the people and easily walk through us because we have no seer left that it wasn't my fault we lost.

Unvote Jeheinz
Vote Farrah



At this time, there were only two villagers with votes on Farrah -- me and my sidekick mau. Your vote for Farrah made it 3 to a couple 1s, and things just sort of snowballed. I think it's strange how you make it seem like you're defending Farrah, while you're actually helping kill her -- if you look like you're defending her, you avoid suspicion when we come after the other team, which appeared to be me and mau. Then the coup de grace -- Arles dies overnight, my biggest accuser. I think things are pointing to me a little too neatly, and artificially so.

olie, this is post 1131 by me (with some bad formatting as I tried to get the post I was replying to in there). I think it might have got lost in the weekend shuffle, but I think it answers your questions.

[Passacaglia]

Quote:
As for where you try to divert attention from yourself back to me about my vote for Farrah.. you really have to make up your mind whether you want to argue that I was defending her or trying to kill her.. you can't honestly try to argue both here. Once again anyone who wants can go back to the arguement that morning.. Your arguement was that we need to kill Farrah ASAP.. My arguement was that I thought both her as well as some of your group (You, Mau, the Jackal) were wolves and that I didn't want to see one team far ahead of the other. I got frustrated that absolutely no one other than Arles has been siding with me on that though this game and changed to kill Farrah. I still stand by what I said though, I'm happy we're killing wolves, but everyone is going to come back and have to admit I was right at some point if we get stuck behind the 8-ball with one team eliminated and no sure clues where to go for the other team.


Sorry Alan, I should have been more clear in my argument. I wasn't trying to argue both that you were defending her and trying to kill her -- I was arguing that you were trying to kill her, while making it seem to us like you were defending her. You put in the vote, knowing a bandwagon would ensue (because she had been scanned), but did it in a way to try to make it seem like you're not on the team against her.NOW you say you thought that her as well as some of me, mau, and The Jackal were wolves, but that's why I quoted your post earlier. You said:

"*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo."

You're not exactly brimming with confidence here. To your credit, you warned against killing two wolves from the same team, but you made sure to make it seem like you weren't the one against them. But why all the hesitation, and the implication that the people accusing Farrah had some kind of inside information? I told you why I thought Farrah was a wolf -- the seer put in a vote for her first thing in the morning. I mentioned how he plays as the seer in the Willy Wonka game -- did you go back to look at that? I saw that you were in that game, but maybe I remember it more than you, since I was pretty hard on him for voting saldana first thing in the morning two days in a row like that.

And yes, no one other than Arles had been siding with you, mostly because of mau's play. If he hadn't lied to me, then came out with a fake reveal, I'm sure it would have been a close race between the two of us. As it was, when mau came up good, Arles was definitely not going to be the only person on your side -- I'm sure a few others here would agree that they were already thinking yesterday that if mau came up good, they'd look at me (in fact, if I recall, a few might have mentioned it -- I'll look if you want). But none so much as Arles. His death seems like an attempt to make me look more wolfish, to finish me off.

This is Alan pushing me further (post 1148), followed by my response (post 1149). I voted Alan yesterday, until Lathum's reveal caugh bsak for us, then I voted for him today as well, and that's where I think you should vote.

[oliegirl]

Thanks Pass...I'm not ready to put a vote in yet, need to think on some things...

AlanT, any response/defense to what Pass has posted?

[jeheinz72]

I'm not really liking either of the two leaders here at this point (Alan or Pass), and Jackal raises a good point about someone who has just been bothering me with his lack of even his typical mindless posts...

Vote Claphamsa

[Passacaglia]

Thanks Pass...I'm not ready to put a vote in yet, need to think on some things...

AlanT, any response/defense to what Pass has posted?

No problem. If there's anything you want to ask based on it, I'm around.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I'd like to hear what Alan has to say about that. It's tough for me missing out on the timing of things to see what Lathum's reveal really interrupted...

[Passacaglia]

I didn't see people suddenly jump to kill Path earlier because of Barkeep's death, I don't think I've seen anyone yet say Arles was killed, he must have been right about Pass and that is proof! You are the only one who seems to be arguing that right now.

I am guessing Arles was killed simply because he was the only semi-cleared villager that everyone trusted. The fact that he agreed with me and would have voted with me is just plain inconvienant for me today.

Here's post 1150, in reply to the stuff I said.

[Passacaglia]

(for those of you asking for his response)

[claphamsa]

ps claphamsa has been unusually quiet in this game
jerk! I havent been quiet I was in NY all weekend!

And I thought I voted.... opppes :(

[jeheinz72]

Oh that's right clap, I did see that note about you being in NY now that I think about it. Nevermind..

Unvote Claphamsa

[claphamsa]

I'm not really liking either of the two leaders here at this point (Alan or Pass), and Jackal raises a good point about someone who has just been bothering me with his lack of even his typical mindless posts...

Vote Claphamsa

ok i just fgot back from NYC. God that city is filthy!!!!

And if somoene couted, I am cruising along with my mindless post count as usual!

That being said both Heinze and jackall have comented on this, which means
A they are setting me up (both cougars)
B they havent read the thread!

No one seems to have put any heat on either of them!

vote jackall

[claphamsa]

Oh that's right clap, I did see that note about you being in NY now that I think about it. Nevermind..

Unvote Claphamsa
ggrr, now i feel bad for calling you out!

still think jackall might be bad, he hasnt said anythign. and thats not him.

what do yout hink hainze?

[jeheinz72]

I guess I can't help but think about the group of people that I don't think is really talking and wonder "Ok, if there might be 4 wolves, then surely some are hiding in the tumbleweeds too"

This group meaning Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, NTN...

I'm leaning towards a vote in that direction today.

[oliegirl]

I guess I can't help but think about the group of people that I don't think is really talking and wonder "Ok, if there might be 4 wolves, then surely some are hiding in the tumbleweeds too"

This group meaning Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, NTN...

I'm leaning towards a vote in that direction today.

NTN has been the one of this group that has stood out to me...I'm currently debating on if I want to vote for Pass, AlanT, or NTN, just having a very difficult time deciding where my vote should go...

[Alan T]

I am not quite sure what there is for me to respond that Passacaglia has been trying to push off on me. I'm not actually sure what his reason for me being a wolf is. I was around the entire time Fink was on the line and could have moved my vote in a way that likely would have saved him (when he was up by 1 vote already, and only Schmidty left to vote before people flipped their votes around at the deadline), I likewise could have moved my vote in a way to condemn him there as well.

The difference being, I didn't know enough about either Render or Fink that day to make the call, and chose instead to watch where people committed themselves (as Pass even quoted some of that dialogue even though he left out other posts). On that day you saw some make moves to condemn Fink (Such as Sndvls, Passacaglia and mauboy) and others make moves to try to save him (such as Mr.Wednesday and Farrah). We have since learned that Sndvls and Farrah were bad, mauboy is good and the jury is still out on Passacaglia and mr.W.

The next day my arguement was that I felt it likely that Farrah and Mr.W were both wolves but on the same side as Fink, I felt we should try to balance up the sides and go after one of the guys who were heavily responsible for Fink's death, as those were highly probably choices of the opposite team's wolves. The people who conversed all seemed pretty opposed to the idea and just wanted to get any wolf they could, to which I said fine, and went that way while strongly saying that I think it would be a mistake that at the end of the game people would come back and agree with me on. I made the vote on Farrah that passacaglia described as "starting" the run on Farrah at that time even though I wasn't the one pushing Farrah for the lynch that day, even though I stated I felt she was a wolf, I wanted to go after the other team.

For the record, I was not the only one stating this point. Arles pretty much sided with me completely and made alot of the same cases about the same people. The main difference between Arles and myself was that Arles argued that he felt Path was his #1 wolf choice followed by Passacaglia, while I felt Pass was my #1 after the way he responded following Fink's death.

I guess the bottom line is that every step along the way, we still have been unable to push into the block of people who seemed to side with Sndvls (like Passacaglia), and unless there is another reveal today to make me change my mind, I would like to see what Passacaglia's allegience is.

[jeheinz72]

ggrr, now i feel bad for calling you out!

still think jackall might be bad, he hasnt said anythign. and thats not him.

what do yout hink hainze?

Something is definitely up with Jackal. Not sure I can put my finger on it. I actually haven't played with him much (we both ran like all the games at TSW for awhile so we rarely both played, if ever)

I could entertain that thought.

[jeheinz72]

NTN has been the one of this group that has stood out to me...I'm currently debating on if I want to vote for Pass, AlanT, or NTN, just having a very difficult time deciding where my vote should go...

For some reason I'm getting a good vibe off of you olie. I could see voting NTN if you do. The others I'm just too confused by, I can't sort out fact from fiction in their arguments since I was gone for so long.

[Alan T]

Dola, and Pass is trying really hard to turn this into a Pass vs Alan arguement. Remember I'm not the only one that has been arguing these things about Pass for days. He just doesn't have much room to stand on pushing it back on Arles since its known that Arles was good, so I'm the only one he has left to strike back at. I don't have any desire to get in a pissing contest here.. heck I might be wrong about Pass too.. I'll let everyone vote how they think is best. I've done so and likely will keep my vote here. There are others who I feel have been just as fishy as Pass this game, but both have done so along the lines of Farrah/Fink/bsak's team and I'm more interested in finding Sndvls's allies at this point.

[Passacaglia]

Dola, and Pass is trying really hard to turn this into a Pass vs Alan arguement. Remember I'm not the only one that has been arguing these things about Pass for days. He just doesn't have much room to stand on pushing it back on Arles since its known that Arles was good, so I'm the only one he has left to strike back at. I don't have any desire to get in a pissing contest here.. heck I might be wrong about Pass too.. I'll let everyone vote how they think is best. I've done so and likely will keep my vote here. There are others who I feel have been just as fishy as Pass this game, but both have done so along the lines of Farrah/Fink/bsak's team and I'm more interested in finding Sndvls's allies at this point.

I disagree that I'm trying really hard to turn this into a Pass vs. Alan argument. You're the one who voted for me. If you get off my back, I'm less likely to go after you. After all, my whole argument is predicated on the fact that you're trying to kill a villager.

Yes, you're not the only one arguing about me -- generally the wolves are a little more organized in their arguments.

I don't know exactly what you mean about pushing it back on Arles, but most of Arles actual analysis linked me with mauboy, and his decision to go after me was pretty much a coin flip based on his scan showing mauboy as good -- a scan which we know was random. For those of us that have played a lot, we know that's a red herring.

By the way, it's quite gracious of you to let everyone vote how they think is best! ;) We are all very grateful for your permission! :)

[Alan T]

You can knock off the sarcasm at any time. It doesn't make me feel you are any less innocent.

[Alan T]

guess I mean it doesn't make me feel you are any less or more likely to be a wolf. It's just dumb. I hate when I try to make analysis and people turn it into personal attacks.

I'm out for a while

[Passacaglia]

I am not quite sure what there is for me to respond that Passacaglia has been trying to push off on me. I'm not actually sure what his reason for me being a wolf is. I was around the entire time Fink was on the line and could have moved my vote in a way that likely would have saved him (when he was up by 1 vote already, and only Schmidty left to vote before people flipped their votes around at the deadline), I likewise could have moved my vote in a way to condemn him there as well.

Sorry if I'm being difficult to understand. Is anyone else having trouble understanding my reason that Alan is a wolf, or is it just him? Yes, you were around the entire time fink was on the line -- but I think at that point in the game, a wolf on the opposite team from him would be equally happy lynching a villager or an opposing wolf. You didn't have your vote on either one of them. That was the day that you said to cronin that you like to keep it close, so we can see where allegiances lie. Your lie with...someone so insignificant I don't even remember who it is.

The difference being, I didn't know enough about either Render or Fink that day to make the call, and chose instead to watch where people committed themselves (as Pass even quoted some of that dialogue even though he left out other posts). On that day you saw some make moves to condemn Fink (Such as Sndvls, Passacaglia and mauboy) and others make moves to try to save him (such as Mr.Wednesday and Farrah). We have since learned that Sndvls and Farrah were bad, mauboy is good and the jury is still out on Passacaglia and mr.W.

I think you meant that you didn't CARE enough about either RendeR or Fink to make the call. So you avoided it like the plague. I'm sorry if I left out posts -- if you feel like I misrepresented something about the way things happened, please let me know.

The next day my arguement was that I felt it likely that Farrah and Mr.W were both wolves but on the same side as Fink, I felt we should try to balance up the sides and go after one of the guys who were heavily responsible for Fink's death, as those were highly probably choices of the opposite team's wolves. The people who conversed all seemed pretty opposed to the idea and just wanted to get any wolf they could, to which I said fine, and went that way while strongly saying that I think it would be a mistake that at the end of the game people would come back and agree with me on. I made the vote on Farrah that passacaglia described as "starting" the run on Farrah at that time even though I wasn't the one pushing Farrah for the lynch that day, even though I stated I felt she was a wolf, I wanted to go after the other team.

Part of your agument was that Farrah was likely on the same side as fink, but part of it seemed skeptical of the whole thing -- I've quoted that post a couple times. And I don't think I ever said that you "started" the run on Farrah -- I said that your vote was the one that finished her.

For the record, I was not the only one stating this point. Arles pretty much sided with me completely and made alot of the same cases about the same people. The main difference between Arles and myself was that Arles argued that he felt Path was his #1 wolf choice followed by Passacaglia, while I felt Pass was my #1 after the way he responded following Fink's death.

Yes, and Arles is gone now. Like I've said before, I think that does more to push blame on me, and I think that was the design.

[Passacaglia]

You can knock off the sarcasm at any time. It doesn't make me feel you are any less innocent.

Sorry if the sarcasm came off as rude -- I was actually jut kidding around there. :p

[Passacaglia]

guess I mean it doesn't make me feel you are any less or more likely to be a wolf. It's just dumb. I hate when I try to make analysis and people turn it into personal attacks.

I'm out for a while

Again, I really didn't mean to make into a personal attack. Sorry if it came out that way -- if it's about the "permission" comment, I was just poking a little fun at your phrasing. No offense was meant.

[The Jackal]

Sorry clap, I missed that post. And I never actually voted for you...

[Passacaglia]

Sorry if I'm being difficult to understand. Is anyone else having trouble understanding my reason that Alan is a wolf, or is it just him?

Oh, if you're referring to this part, Alan, that wasn't sarcasm. I was actually asking if other people are having trouble understanding me -- I find that in communication, I often don't come across as clear as I would like.

[path12]

I'm not sure I'm going to try and figure out the Pass/Alan thing right now. I can't figure out if they are both good (least likely to my mind), one good and one bad (also a little less likely because why would whichever was the wolf be pushing so hard against the other one?), or both bad (in which case they just might take care of the problem tonight since it's a wolf vs wolf night).

I want to go back and look through the votes of some of the other names that have been bandied around today. I bet we've got a wolf coasting under the radar somewhere.....

[jeheinz72]

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote NTNDeacon

[oliegirl]

I'm still torn on the Pass/AlanT debate, I just don't know what to think. Everything either of them has said could vouch for them being good, or it could be that they are wolves on opposite teams and are trying to off each other. Since I can't decide which of them I trust, I'm going to just go with my gut and vote on someone I know I don't trust at this point...NTNDeacon. He's been way too quiet throughout the whole game, and we are a week into it at this point...he's a good player, but not as "well known" as RendeR/Path/Pass/Alan/Lathum...I'm worried that he's letting them take the heat and battle things out, and he's just laying low and letting them fight while he is behind the scenes.

VOTE NTNDEACON

As always, I'm leaving the option of changing my vote out there, but unless something big goes down, probably won't.

[RendeR]

Frankly, I'm tired of the alan VS Pass argument, they're both wolves as far as I can see. neither has any evidence clearing them and both have enough circumstantial stuff to get votes on the other.

I'm not going to choose between them because then I just look like another wolf out to protect someone. Which I am not.

However, NTN has indeed been totally under the radar this game. Scheduling issues? maybe, just laying low? probably.

Vote NTN

[oliegirl]

Oh, if you're referring to this part, Alan, that wasn't sarcasm. I was actually asking if other people are having trouble understanding me -- I find that in communication, I often don't come across as clear as I would like.

Well that is b/c you are a Michigan fan, but in spite of this flaw, we've all learned to accept you as you are and wade through your lengthy and convoluted posts ;)

Just kidding Pass - you know I just like to give you shit every now and then! But deep down you know I love you :p