Survivor:Challenge/Common Thread (GAME OVER! FEED BACK WELCOME) [Archive] - Page 8

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st.cronin

02-12-2007, 08:56 PM

I can understand why some of you guys would be irked.

This is what happened: our seer did not out RA. RA came out, for some reason, and said "I'm a wolf. But I can help your tribe win challenges." Then he said some other stuff. Naturally, we voted him out.

What he claimed:

1. The wolves could not communicate
2. He had tried to contact Lathum, and Lathum came up as not a wolf.

I personally do not believe he was telling the truth about both of those, and think it's possible he was lying about both.

st.cronin

02-12-2007, 08:57 PM

dola

Also we do not actually know who our seer is. Only the seer knows that.

Lathum

02-12-2007, 08:57 PM

Did RA mention any one else he scanned?

st.cronin

02-12-2007, 08:58 PM

Did RA mention any one else he scanned?

no

st.cronin

02-12-2007, 08:59 PM

Also, obviously we have no idea who our seer has scanned.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:00 PM

In hindsight, we should have kept RA on our team. He could not have been any worse than the deadweight we have now.

st.cronin

02-12-2007, 09:02 PM

In hindsight, we should have kept RA on our team. He could not have been any worse than the deadweight we have now.

lol

sad but true

st.cronin

02-12-2007, 09:03 PM

dola

The thing that worried me is that RA was NOT going to get voted off at the time of his reveal. That makes me think that there was no way he was being 100% truthful.

His play just makes no sense.

Mr. Wednesday

02-12-2007, 09:03 PM

I would assume that RA was making some kind of a play, but it's not obvious to me what he was getting at there. Why would he think that his tribe would want to help him? Alternatively, why would he want to take an action that was likely to get him voted off?

st.cronin

02-12-2007, 09:05 PM

Lathum

02-12-2007, 09:06 PM

why weren't you honest from the start?

Lathum

02-12-2007, 09:07 PM

No idea. Maybe Lathum's tribe can figure it out.

what do you mean by that?

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 09:07 PM

He just up and outed himself for no reason other than to try and gain special status? Surely you questioned him about this. What did he say the reason was?

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 09:07 PM

Did you ask him if he felt like he was scanned?

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 09:08 PM

Surely you can understand why we feel played now?

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 09:10 PM

So what was RA's goal. Was he aware of some win conditions that we do not know?

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 09:11 PM

Well this was a close challenge. All the tribes did quite nicely thinking like others. Remember that for each answer, I took the number of people who answered the question altogether, divided that into 100, and then multiplied that by the number of people who gave a particular answer. In this way each question was worth the same amount even though differing amounts of people answered the questions. Let’s take a look at what the board said:
<o:p> </o:p>
30 library patrons in the Youth Services section of a library were asked: Which is the best Harry Potter book? (6 answers)
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 102.75pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="137"> Goblet of Fire<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 9<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 29.97<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Sorcerer's Stone<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 7<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 23.31<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Half-Blood Prince<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 5<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 16.65<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Prisoner of Azkaban<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 4<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 13.32<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Order of the <st1:City><st1:place>Phoenix</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 3<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 9.99<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Chamber of Secrets<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 2<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 6.66<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
40 fourth graders were asked: What is your favorite food? (5 answers)
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 129.2pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="172"> Pizza<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 25<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 62.5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Ice Cream<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 4<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 10<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Hamburgers/Cheeseburgers<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 3<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 7.5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Macaroni and Cheese<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 2<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Peanut Butter and Jelly<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 2<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
20 teachers were asked: Which movie will win best picture? (5 answers)<o:p></o:p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 102.75pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="137"> Departed<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 6<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 30<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Queen<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 5<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 25<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Little Miss Sunshine<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 4<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 20<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> <st1:City><st1:place>Babel</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 3<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 15<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Letters from Iwa Jima<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 2<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 10<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
20 poker players were asked: Who is the best poker player? (4 answers)<o:p></o:p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 102.75pt; height: 13.5pt;" width="137"> Phil Ivey<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 13.5pt;" width="86"> 5<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 13.5pt;" width="86"> 25<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Phil Hellmuth<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 3<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 15<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Chris Ferguson<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 3<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 15<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Daniel Negraunu<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 2<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 10<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
30 adults (combination of library patrons and teachers) were asked: What time do you get up in the morning (to the nearest half hour)? (6 answers)<o:p></o:p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 102.75pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="137"> <st1:time minute="0" hour="18">06:00</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 7<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> 23.31<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> <st1:time minute="30" hour="18">06:30</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 6<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 19.98<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <st1:time minute="0" hour="17">05:00</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 5<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 16.65<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> <st1:time minute="30" hour="17">05:30</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 5<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 16.65<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> <st1:time minute="0" hour="19">07:00</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 4<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 13.32<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> <st1:time minute="30" hour="16">04:30</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 2<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 6.66<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
And let’s look at what our tribes answered
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> Harry Potter<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Oz<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Goblet<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 29.97<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Lupus<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Sorcerer<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 23.31<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Helsing<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Goblet<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 29.97<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Howard<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Goblet<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 29.97<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Food<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Oz<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Pizza<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 62.5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Lupus<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Pizza<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 62.5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Helsing<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Pizza<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 62.5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Howard<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Pizza<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 62.5<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Best Picture<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Oz<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Letters<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 10<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Lupus<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Departed<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 30<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Helsing<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Little Miss<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 20<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Howard<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Departed<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 30<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Poker Player<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Oz<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Gus Hansen<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 0<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Lupus<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Hellmuth<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 15<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Helsing<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Ivey<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 25<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Howard<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Hellmuth<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 15<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Wake-Up<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Oz<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <st1:time minute="0" hour="6">06:00:00 AM</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 23.31<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Lupus<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <st1:time minute="0" hour="6">06:00:00 AM</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 23.31<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Helsing<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <st1:time minute="30" hour="6">06:30:00 AM</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 19.98<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Howard<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> <st1:time minute="0" hour="6">06:00:00 AM</st1:time><o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 23.31<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
Which gives us a final scoreboard of
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> Totals<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 12.75pt;" width="86"> <o:p> </o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Oz<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 125.78<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Lupus<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 154.12<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Helsing<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> 157.45<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Howard<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> 160.78<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
Congrats to Helsing. That’s their first victory after a string of defeats. You have won this reward challenge. Your reward will be revealed shortly.

What I need now is for one member from each tribe, who will be around for a couple of minutes, to PM me. You may quickly discuss this, but speed is of the essence.<o:p></o:p>

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 09:16 PM

I think you got the total wrong BK. Helsing got 157. And we have not had a string of defeats.

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 09:16 PM

Did you swap us with Howard?

Lathum

02-12-2007, 09:17 PM

I'll be around for a while

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 09:19 PM

Did you swap us with Howard?
My spreadsheet did. Howard did indeed win. Going to fix it shortly. Howard, is who snapped their winless streak.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:20 PM

At least Oz got a submission in this time.

Poli

02-12-2007, 09:21 PM

You're welcome.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:22 PM

dola

Also we do not actually know who our seer is. Only the seer knows that.

Ah. Perfect. And tell me this after I gave you guys my idol so it would find its way to the seer.

Outstanding.

Poli

02-12-2007, 09:28 PM

Hitting the hay. See ya'll in the morn.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:28 PM

why weren't you honest from the start?

IIRC, we were played hardball to get how many wolves were in our team. We figured we could on to it for later, since information in this game seemed to be worth something.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:30 PM

He just up and outed himself for no reason other than to try and gain special status? Surely you questioned him about this. What did he say the reason was?

We did. He said he wanted to be helpful to us. He said he would be dead in a few days anyway, and he had put a lot of work into the challenges.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:31 PM

Did you ask him if he felt like he was scanned?

We did. He said he had not been scanned.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:32 PM

Surely you can understand why we feel played now?

I am sure every team has some sort of information they are holding back. We just had the most juiciest info.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:32 PM

It sounds like he was made to tell you guys that. It's very possible that he was not a wolf at all, but coerced to say those things to get killed.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:32 PM

Ah. Perfect. And tell me this after I gave you guys my idol so it would find its way to the seer.

Outstanding.

And you would rather hold on to it why?

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:33 PM

And you would rather hold on to it why?

Ummm..... So I don't get f*cking eaten by a wolf. Why else?

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:33 PM

It sounds like he was made to tell you guys that. It's very possible that he was not a wolf at all, but coerced to say those things to get killed.

Maybe. But since Oz has no wolves on its team, its pretty safe to say he was in fact a wolf.

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 09:33 PM

A note: I have decided that I will not be bringing back any of the players who have been voted off to this point. So please feel free to read whatever thread or threads you'd like.

Poli

02-12-2007, 09:34 PM

Err? Any??

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:35 PM

A note: I have decided that I will not be bringing back any of the players who have been voted off to this point. So please feel free to read whatever thread or threads you'd like.

You mean the players who have been voted off, correct?

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:36 PM

Maybe. But since Oz has no wolves on its team, its pretty safe to say he was in fact a wolf.

I don't know what to believe any more. I'm now leaning toward thinking that there aren't any wolves at all and that a couple of teams somehow already know it and are just screwing around with the rest of us.

Alan T

02-12-2007, 09:39 PM

IIRC, we were played hardball to get how many wolves were in our team. We figured we could on to it for later, since information in this game seemed to be worth something.

Information is worth something, as is trust. We offered information in return for the expectation of the same in return.

I don't know what to believe any more. I'm now leaning toward thinking that there aren't any wolves at all and that a couple of teams somehow already know it and are just screwing around with the rest of us.

If that was really the case, you wouldn't be all upset at losing wolf protection idols. :)

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:42 PM

If that was really the case, you wouldn't be all upset at losing wolf protection idols. :)

No. I can be upset about both things. Because I don't know for sure. It's better to have the idol - it's better to be safe than sorry.

And I think it's low as hell to coerce the idol away under false pretences.

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 09:42 PM

You mean the players who have been voted off, correct?
Yes those players should feel free to read whatever threads they like

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:43 PM

Yes those players should feel free to read whatever threads they like

You may want to clarify that in the post.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:44 PM

Information is worth something, as is trust. We offered information in return for the expectation of the same in return.

In all fairness, I asked a question that was never answered.

Lathum

02-12-2007, 09:44 PM

I don't know what to believe any more. I'm now leaning toward thinking that there aren't any wolves at all and that a couple of teams somehow already know it and are just screwing around with the rest of us.

not true. There are 3 wolves left. none on OZ

Lathum

02-12-2007, 09:45 PM

In all fairness, I asked a question that was never answered.

what question?

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:49 PM

Let's get something straight here. If Oz says they don't know who the seer is, that means that he hasn't revealed himself.

IT'S VERY LIKELY THE SEER ISN'T ON OZ AT ALL!

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 09:49 PM

Well survivors the time has come. Yes it is time for a merge. We now have two new tribes:

Each tribe will also have a new tribal color. First we haveHelsing, which will use brown and will be made up of:
Alan
Cronin
Lathum
Mr. W
Path
SnDvls
Swaggs

And then we have Howard and the gray color. They will have:
Anxiety
Ardent
Golden
Grammaticus
ITC
Jonathan
Kwhit
Pass

As part of their reward, the old Howard, Path and Jonathan, get their very own thread to privately communicate. All other players may now look ONLY in their new tribe's thread. Players MAY read any old posts in those threads that they'd like, but may NOT read any thread except their CURRENT tribe's thread.

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 09:50 PM

Oh and as a special "welcome home" present, all players who have night actions may use one tonight.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:53 PM

Players MAY read any old posts in those threads that they'd like, but may NOT read any thread except their CURRENT tribe's thread.

So that means the old Lupus and Oz threads are not to be viewed by anyone. Is that correct?

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:56 PM

what question?

About how it was decided who asked what question.

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 09:56 PM

So that means the old Lupus and Oz threads are not to be viewed by anyone. Is that correct?
Correct

Passacaglia

02-12-2007, 09:56 PM

Great, I have a ton of snooping to do tomorrow. Anyone else have not liking their sideline green scheme now?

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:57 PM

Don't use it.

Passacaglia

02-12-2007, 09:57 PM

Anyway, bye Helsing! Been nice knowing you -- don't know why Gram and I got bumped, but c'est la vie, I guess.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:58 PM

I mean I don't use it.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:58 PM

IT'S VERY LIKELY THE SEER ISN'T ON OZ AT ALL!

You see, this is just dumb. It was confirmed that the old Oz team had the seer.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 09:58 PM

You see, this is just dumb. It was confirmed that the old Oz team had the seer.

When?

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 09:59 PM

Barkeep, I'm sorry I said you screwed up the totals in the other thread. What I meant to say is, the totals got switched. You are doing a great job running the game. A very large and complicated game I might add.

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 09:59 PM

Correct

Could you temporarily delete the threads to ensure fairness?

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 10:00 PM

The gray seems to suck with the quote box (at least for me). I would be open to a different color suggestion.

Passacaglia

02-12-2007, 10:00 PM

Barkeep, can I still view the old temporary howard and oz threads?

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 10:00 PM

Could you temporarily delete the threads to ensure fairness?
Well for strange reasons I don't have the power to undelete threads so I'm somewhat hesitant to do that.

path12

02-12-2007, 10:01 PM

So now I can't post or look in Howard, but I can post and look in Helsing?

And where do Jonathan and I get to post? ;)

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 10:01 PM

Barkeep, can I still view the old temporary howard and oz threads?
No. Only your new tribe's thread

GoldenEagle

02-12-2007, 10:01 PM

When?

Oz won the first challenge and therefore got the seer. Your actions are very wolfish at this time. I am suspicious of you and will be watching you in all future actions.

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:02 PM

When?

I think they won the first challenge which gave them the seer.

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:02 PM

Why is everyone posting in grey?

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 10:02 PM

So now I can't post or look in Howard, but I can post and look in Helsing?

And where do Jonathan and I get to post? ;)
A thread's been created for you. And your new tribal color is BROWN.

Barkeep49

02-12-2007, 10:03 PM

Why is everyone posting in grey?
Cause that is Howard's (which happens to be your tribe) new color

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:04 PM

I think they won the first challenge which gave them the seer.

Ah yeah. You're right. I forgot about that. I was thinking that we found out about the seer when the fake reveal happened.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:05 PM

Oz won the first challenge and therefore got the seer. Your actions are very wolfish at this time. I am suspicious of you and will be watching you in all future actions.

Umm... Ok.

Pissed off at being lied to and encouraged to give up my idol and throw challenges toward Oz when they are completely lying through their teeth at me is being wolfish.

I see.

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:07 PM

Anyway, bye Helsing! Been nice knowing you -- don't know why Gram and I got bumped, but c'est la vie, I guess.

Looks like Lathum decided to boot us. Likely because we had the whole, "who's the wolf" discussion. Funny thing is, its probably just like any non information fed first day issue, both parties are likely not wolves.

Mr. Wednesday

02-12-2007, 10:08 PM

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:09 PM

Cause that is Howard's (which happens to be your tribe) new color

Sorry, I was waiting to be sure what thread to enter. I almost just came back into my old tribes thread prior to reading the merge. Imagine the stink that would have caused.

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:12 PM

Man, I had a rough day and my performance review is being held tomorrow morning. I didn't need this merge shiat tonight.

path12

02-12-2007, 10:13 PM

Sorry, I was waiting to be sure what thread to enter. I almost just came back into my old tribes thread prior to reading the merge. Imagine the stink that would have caused.

I fully expect to have at least a couple misclicks until I get the switch down right. Bear with me.

Mr. Wednesday

02-12-2007, 10:14 PM

About how it was decided who asked what question.

As I recall (and I don't believe I'm supposed to go back and verify?), it was mostly by choice. I took the random question because it was about the only thing left at that point.

Any funny business would have required a minimum of two players to pull off and (with that count) would have had to have the effect of misreporting downward the wolf count in Helsing and possibly upward in another tribe. Or it would have required a minimum of three players to do a complete switcheroo.

Regardless, I have a 99% certainty that Oz did not have any wolves in it at the time we asked. I would have the most uncertainty about the Helsing wolf count.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:16 PM

(Sorry if this isn't the right color, I use the WYSIWYG so I picked the closest I could get to brown there.)

KWhit, I don't blame you for being annoyed at Oz, we all are, but in the context of the WW aspect of things, it was absolutely the right thing to do to try to keep Oz out of tribal council.

I'm annoyed on many levels.

;)

First, the constant "Lupus should lay down and let Oz win the challenges, since they have the seer."

Second, "You should give the idol to somebody in Oz so they can give it to the seer."

Third, the lies for no clear purpose. Especially as part of a legit exchange of information. We were all coming clean with each other to try to figure out the WW part of the puzzle.

Fourth, being told your comments are stupid and wolfish when you point out the problems you have with 1-3.

Lathum

02-12-2007, 10:17 PM

Looks like Lathum decided to boot us. Likely because we had the whole, "who's the wolf" discussion. Funny thing is, its probably just like any non information fed first day issue, both parties are likely not wolves.

Thats not true. If I had my choice I would have kept helsing completely together ( would have been a fool not to). I am not allowed to discuss details but it was pretty much random.

Mr. Wednesday

02-12-2007, 10:17 PM

Even if they don't know who the seer is, the idols are better off there, because they have a chance at being with the seer, where they had no chance at that before.

Lathum

02-12-2007, 10:19 PM

Even if they don't know who the seer is, the idols are better off there, because they have a chance at being with the seer, where they had no chance at that before.

then they should have tried to obtain the idol under those pretenses, not lie to everyone.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:20 PM

then they should have tried to obtain the idol under those pretenses, not lie to everyone.

Yep.

SnDvls

02-12-2007, 10:22 PM

OLD Helsing keep to the plan

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:26 PM

As I recall (and I don't believe I'm supposed to go back and verify?), it was mostly by choice. I took the random question because it was about the only thing left at that point.

Any funny business would have required a minimum of two players to pull off and (with that count) would have had to have the effect of misreporting downward the wolf count in Helsing and possibly upward in another tribe. Or it would have required a minimum of three players to do a complete switcheroo.

Regardless, I have a 99% certainty that Oz did not have any wolves in it at the time we asked. I would have the most uncertainty about the Helsing wolf count.

Mr. W was MIA and ended up with the random because he was last to arrive and we wanted to make sure we hit each individual tribe first.

Pass jumped out and said he wanted to do Helsing (our tribe at the time) and

SnDvl said he wanted to do the overall number of wolves.

Alan said he would take Lupus and he suggested I take Howard.

I said I felt pretty good that Lathum was a normal villager and would like for him to take the Helsing quesion. Either way, I was more inclined to have someone not self choose our own tribe.

Their might be something to gleen from that info. But in the end I think the information we obtained was correct, regarding wolves.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:26 PM

Even if they don't know who the seer is, the idols are better off there, because they have a chance at being with the seer, where they had no chance at that before.

It's also very possible that Oz is still lying to us. Who knows, maybe RA was the seer and they voted him off.

My point is that I've lost faith in pretty much anything they have to say at this point.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:28 PM

Mr. W was MIA and ended up with the random because he was last to arrive and we wanted to make sure we hit each individual tribe first.

Pass jumped out and said he wanted to do Helsing (our tribe at the time) and

SnDvl said he wanted to do the overall number of wolves.

Alan said he would take Lupus and he suggested I take Howard.

I said I felt pretty good that Lathum was a normal villager and would like for him to take the Helsing quesion. Either way, I was more inclined to have someone not self choose our own tribe.

Their might be something to gleen from that info. But in the end I think the information we obtained was correct, regarding wolves.

But if you had 2 wolves in your tribe at the time, then the information was compromised. No matter which 2 people they were, they could coordinate mis-information.

Not likely for you to have 2 wolves in your tribe, but still possible.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:30 PM

Meh. I'm just cranky and skeptical tonight.

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:30 PM

Thats not true. If I had my choice I would have kept helsing completely together ( would have been a fool not to). I am not allowed to discuss details but it was pretty much random.

Fair enough, I forgive you and still Plan on working to win this thing.

SnDvls

02-12-2007, 10:31 PM

But if you had 2 wolves in your tribe at the time, then the information was compromised. No matter which 2 people they were, they could coordinate mis-information.

Not likely for you to have 2 wolves in your tribe, but still possible.

this actually would have required 3 people to be in on it to pull off the lie. the fail safe was Mr. W in that he did not say which tribe he was asking about. if the person scanning Helsing decided to lie, then the total # of wolves wouldn't match up. if the total # of wolves person decided to lie then the tribal count wouldn't add up...the final fail safe was no one knew what question Mr. w was going to ask and he was the last to reviel his question and answer. it would be a big chance for the wolf to take to lie with a double fail safe

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 10:33 PM

But if you had 2 wolves in your tribe at the time, then the information was compromised. No matter which 2 people they were, they could coordinate mis-information.

Not likely for you to have 2 wolves in your tribe, but still possible.

Not really. The 2 wolves would have had to have the overall and one of the tribes. Then they would have to avoid the Mr. W guess. I would say the information from that question session was accurate at the time. After tonights night actions, who knows.

I'm with Mr W. in the fact it was likely 99% accurate.

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:37 PM

the final fail safe was no one knew what question Mr. w was going to ask and he was the last to reviel his question and answer. it would be a big chance for the wolf to take to lie with a double fail safe

Ah yes, right. I had forgotten about that piece. That does make it close to iron-clad.

Like I said, I'm just skeptical about everything tonight.

"I wouldn't be so paranoid if everybody wasn't out to get me!"

KWhit

02-12-2007, 10:54 PM

I just can't figure out why RA supposedly outed himself like that for no good reason. It just doesn't make sense and makes me believe that there's still more to the story.

Grammaticus

02-12-2007, 11:11 PM

I just can't figure out why RA supposedly outed himself like that for no good reason. It just doesn't make sense and makes me believe that there's still more to the story.

Maybe he was using some new French technique ;)

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 12:18 AM

Let's get something straight here. If Oz says they don't know who the seer is, that means that he hasn't revealed himself.

IT'S VERY LIKELY THE SEER ISN'T ON OZ AT ALL!

Even though the moderator said the seer would be on oz? hmmmmm kay

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 12:20 AM

I just can't figure out why RA supposedly outed himself like that for no good reason. It just doesn't make sense and makes me believe that there's still more to the story.

I agree, that's why I didn't play it straight. I thought maybe I could flush out a wolf or two. For all I know, I did. I don't know what happened in the other threads. Maybe somebody slipped up.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 12:46 AM

It sounds like he was made to tell you guys that. It's very possible that he was not a wolf at all, but coerced to say those things to get killed.

I do not think this is the case. There are things you can do to alert people that you are coerced - RA did none of them.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 12:49 AM

I'm amused at all the indignation that somebody would LIE while playing werewolf!

Poli

02-13-2007, 05:15 AM

You split me and Cronin up? You bastages! On my way to Chicago in about 15 min, it should be a long drive given the weather.

Poli

02-13-2007, 05:15 AM

And it's weird to see 9 guests viewing this forum.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 05:30 AM

I'm amused at all the indignation that somebody would LIE while playing werewolf!

Actually, the fuss is over why villagers would lie. Wolves are expected to lie. Villagers should always tell the truth.

The other aspect is survivor. When people are making sacrafices to assist you and you lie, that is voting off mojo.

KWhit

02-13-2007, 07:54 AM

I'm amused at all the indignation that somebody would LIE while playing werewolf!

I'm of the mind that it is almost always in the best interests of the villagers to tell the truth to each other. Lying is all about dis-information, and that helps the wolves.

That's why I led the charge to have Blade voted out after he lied about sending the idols to Oz earlier in the game.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 07:59 AM

Alan T

02-13-2007, 08:01 AM

There are times when lying is acceptible for villagers too, however its usually better to just not comment in those cases rather than comment and make a lie about it.

Example: I'm not the seer. (When they really are the seer). The lie isn't awful as you don't want the wolves to kill you, but the lie might not be good in case you have to later reveal and the reveal is questioned.. or because it draws attention on you.

There are other times when lying as a villager is perhaps the best strategy:

Example: I'm the bodyguard and i protected player X two nights ago, Player Y last night. (When in fact you did some different protect order, but want to mix it up so the wolves don't know who is going to be left unguarded for sure).

The majority of time however, lying as a villager ends up creating two different stories for you to keep straight, gives a line of reasonable doubt that others might follow thinking it is leading to a wolf, and could complicate the situation by hiding the real information that could be used to break a case.

The lying in Blade's case about the idols could be viewed partially as good as a way to trap wolves into attacking him. The lying in Oz's case I just don't see much benefit from other than creating a false security in Helsing for Lathum that ended up not messing things up, but it could have caused the tribe to use wrong information in their effort to look for a wolf.

So is lying always bad in WW? probably not.. but you have to pick and choose when its done. I guess the only thing true here is there never is any absolutes.

KWhit

02-13-2007, 08:05 AM

Just ask Blade.

At least I'm consistent. I asked our team to vote him off after that strategy.

KWhit

02-13-2007, 08:08 AM

The lying in Oz's case I just don't see much benefit from other than creating a false security in Helsing for Lathum that ended up not messing things up, but it could have caused the tribe to use wrong information in their effort to look for a wolf.

This is my main beef. Sometimes lying does make sense, but in this case, I still don't understand the purpose behind the lies. That, in addition to the very strange description of RA's confession, just don't make sense to me.

The stories still don't quite ring true yet. I think there's more to the story.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 08:30 AM

Actually, the fuss is over why villagers would lie. Wolves are expected to lie. Villagers should always tell the truth.

The other aspect is survivor. When people are making sacrafices to assist you and you lie, that is voting off mojo.

As I've said several times, I'm not worried about Survivor. I signed up to play werewolf, and that's what I'm playing. My play was with the wolves in mind.

I've made similar plays in other games as a villager.

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 08:38 AM

C'mon in survivors. Wow. You're all here again?

Today's activity should take you back to your childhood. We're going to play a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Each team needs to submit to me by 3:30 a list of it's players arranged from A-H (One player on Helsing will go twice). I will then post the match-ups. By 10 PM tonight each player needs to post <b>in their thread</b> whether they are throwing rock, paper, or scissors. The team which wins the most rounds wins immunity. The losing tribe? It's tribal council for them. Should be simple.

Survivor's ready? Go.

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 09:27 AM

i think i just clicked in helsing not sure though but i didnt see anything

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 11:50 AM

Clicked on Helsing, saw nothing. Old habits.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 12:08 PM

by the way this color is not on my palette, I have to type it in manually

Lathum

02-13-2007, 12:56 PM

we are having this discussion in our tribes thread and I wanted to throw it here as well. What do the remaining Oz and Helsing members think about eliminating the remaining Howard and Lupus members from the game through tribal council. That way we are guarenteed 1 wolf ( helsings) and the seer still being alive.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 12:58 PM

Former members of Oz, play scissors. You're not going to get voted out anyway, so don't worry about the challenge. Your tribe has a better shot at voting out a wolf.

bolded for emphasis

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 01:00 PM

Also, seer: please scan an original Helsing when possible

Alan T

02-13-2007, 01:03 PM

Also, seer: please scan an original Helsing when possible

I agree fully. You can start with me if you want :) With this plan, we will have removed lupus + howard in 4 days, giving you time to scan 4 different helsing members. THat would leave a 50/50 chance on the last wolf if you hadn't found them already.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:04 PM

Yeah, they're not getting voted out anyway, but why does that mean they should play scissors?

Alan T

02-13-2007, 01:07 PM

Yeah, they're not getting voted out anyway, but why does that mean they should play scissors?

I'm not sure what you mean by playing scissors.

Basically this is a continuance of what we (old-helsing) was trying to do in helping set up the best chance to eliminate wolves. We feel if the Oz + helsing members that formed the new Howard team up together, they will out number the others and can help us make sure we get rid of 2 more wolves the quickest possible.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 01:07 PM

Yeah, they're not getting voted out anyway, but why does that mean they should play scissors?

The idea is for Helsing to win the challenge. I'm not worried about convincing your entire team, but I think the former members of Oz trust me. Plus there's no downside for them.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 01:11 PM

The idea is for Helsing to win the challenge. I'm not worried about convincing your entire team, but I think the former members of Oz trust me. Plus there's no downside for them.

Well there is no downside for them if gramm and pass agree that they shouldn't vote for Oz in tribal council, and the oz members agree that its best to go with voting for one of the most likely wolves. (Anxiety or Kwhit). I am pretty sure based on how gramm and pass played while in helsing that they would be willing to go along with whats in best interest of the village. So pretty sure if you 5 team up you all won't have to worry about tribal council.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 01:13 PM

Well there is no downside for them if gramm and pass agree that they shouldn't vote for Oz in tribal council, and the oz members agree that its best to go with voting for one of the most likely wolves. (Anxiety or Kwhit). I am pretty sure based on how gramm and pass played while in helsing that they would be willing to go along with whats in best interest of the village. So pretty sure if you 5 team up you all won't have to worry about tribal council.

I'm not worried about tribal council. I'm playing WEREWOLF. It's all about the best odds to get a wolf.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:17 PM

Well there is no downside for them if gramm and pass agree that they shouldn't vote for Oz in tribal council, and the oz members agree that its best to go with voting for one of the most likely wolves. (Anxiety or Kwhit). I am pretty sure based on how gramm and pass played while in helsing that they would be willing to go along with whats in best interest of the village. So pretty sure if you 5 team up you all won't have to worry about tribal council.

I'm sure neither Gram nor I will vote Oz in tribal council. But why aren't you guys worried about Swaggs and path?

path12

02-13-2007, 01:17 PM

I'm sure neither Gram nor I will vote Oz in tribal council. But why aren't you guys worried about Swaggs and path?

Oh, they are. :(

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 01:20 PM

It's no big deal if we lose the challenge, we have some good ideas, but we're much less likely to vote out a wolf than your tribe.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:25 PM

Here's my take on it. I'm assuming that an Old Helsing member has a 1/6 chance of being a wolf, an Old Oz member has 0 chance, an Old Lupus member has 1/3 chance, and Old Howard member has 1/4 chance (going back to when they had 1 wolf and 4 members).

Alan = 1/6
Cronin = 0
Lath = 1/6
MrW = 1/6
Path = 1/4
SnDvls = 1/6
Swaggs = 1/3
Total wolves = 1.25 out of 7

Anxiety = 1/3
AE = 0
GE = 0
Gram = 1/6
ITC = 0
JE = 1/4
KWhit = 1/3
Pass = 1/6
Total wolves = 1.25 out of 8

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:28 PM

Seriously, we have three cleared villagers. Plus, you guys also have the added benefit of knowing that whoever came up with this idea is more likely to be a wolf.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 01:31 PM

Seriously, we have three cleared villagers. Plus, you guys also have the added benefit of knowing that whoever came up with this idea is more likely to be a wolf.

So you are saying St.cronin is likely to be a wolf? :)

Seriously if you look at the odds, you have two players with a 33% chance of being a wolf.. we only have 1. We're saying get rid of them and then Jonathan, and then its our turn to do the same housecleaning.

By that point the seer (whoever he is) should have a good nice long list of cleared people for us.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:36 PM

So you are saying St.cronin is likely to be a wolf? :)

Seriously if you look at the odds, you have two players with a 33% chance of being a wolf.. we only have 1. We're saying get rid of them and then Jonathan, and then its our turn to do the same housecleaning.

By that point the seer (whoever he is) should have a good nice long list of cleared people for us.

You're asking me to look at the odds? See above.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:38 PM

Alan T

02-13-2007, 01:41 PM

You're asking me to look at the odds? See above.

Just for the record, you posted pretty much the same thing that I did in the helsing thread :)

I think you are not upset at the idea, you just don't understand the reason for the method of execution. The way we see it, there are three groups of probability here:

1) Higher likelyhood wolves
2) possible wolves
3) Not a wolf.

All of Oz fits into #3, Helsing in #2, and Howard + Lupus in #1.

So your current tribe has 3 people in the first group, while we only have 2. I mentioned to the current helsing either, that I figure you and Gramm will be happy to go along with working with Oz on this one with this consideration:

If you all spend your time to remove Kwhit, Anxiety and Jonathan, that gives the seer the time needed to scan you and Gramm (I was joking earlier about scanning me earlier.. it makes more sense to scan you two). If you have removed those three and scanned both of you two clean.. that once again is a completely wolf clean tribe where you can be open about your communications. At that time we start taking the fall to remove people such as Swaggs and path (giving the seer 2 more days to continue scanning and proving info to you all).

Alan T

02-13-2007, 01:44 PM

I suspect we'll both get our turns to do some housecleaning. If we agree that both teams need to do it, why should our team go first? My initial thought was that if you guys were less wolf-y than us, it was not by much, but then I thought that maybe I was just unfamiliar with being on this side of thing. Then I looked at the odds (again, see above), and it makes even less sense.

Check out my response to your last post, then I think you will see the logic.

Your current tribe only has 2 people in the grey area (you and Gramm). Your tribe has more people who are more likely wolves than us, and more people that are not wolves than us (oz members). So your tribe house cleaning first gives the opportunity for the seer to do his thing, and create a "clean tribe quicker"

I am pretty sure if Oz + helsing teams up together we'll remove 2 wolves and have a 67% chance at finding the last wolf before even having to vote a single helsing member.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:47 PM

Just for the record, you posted pretty much the same thing that I did in the helsing thread :)

I think you are not upset at the idea, you just don't understand the reason for the method of execution. The way we see it, there are three groups of probability here:

1) Higher likelyhood wolves
2) possible wolves
3) Not a wolf.

All of Oz fits into #3, Helsing in #2, and Howard + Lupus in #1.

So your current tribe has 3 people in the first group, while we only have 2. I mentioned to the current helsing either, that I figure you and Gramm will be happy to go along with working with Oz on this one with this consideration:

If you all spend your time to remove Kwhit, Anxiety and Jonathan, that gives the seer the time needed to scan you and Gramm (I was joking earlier about scanning me earlier.. it makes more sense to scan you two). If you have removed those three and scanned both of you two clean.. that once again is a completely wolf clean tribe where you can be open about your communications. At that time we start taking the fall to remove people such as Swaggs and path (giving the seer 2 more days to continue scanning and proving info to you all).

Cool -- as long as the seer scans me and Gram.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 01:49 PM

Cool -- as long as the seer scans me and Gram.

yeah, don't worry this isn't a "vote out these guys" then we'll throw you under the bus move. We're all still working together like before to try to eliminate the wolves :)

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 01:56 PM

I'm also worried about the seer -- he needs to be on board with this, but can't tell us he's on board.

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:00 PM

I'm also worried about the seer -- he needs to be on board with this, but can't tell us he's on board.

why wouldn't he be?

Alan T

02-13-2007, 02:02 PM

I'm also worried about the seer -- he needs to be on board with this, but can't tell us he's on board.

Well this was an idea created by someone from Oz who we know isnt a wolf, that provides the mathematical best chance at removing the other wolves.. I can't possibly see why the seer wouldn't be on board with a plan that shrinks the field to only 6 people he needs to scan and no need to reveal himself until he finds the last wolf.

I mean, I can understand why people from Lupus or Howard wouldn't be on board (if they arent the wolf), but I dont see why the seer wouldn't want to.

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 02:04 PM

Great. So because I was in a tribe that had a wolf, I'm going to suffer now. Well, fuck that. Seriously. This is complete bullshit. If you want to vote me off because you think I'm a wolf, fine. But don't get rid of me or the remaining members of Howard and Lupus because there's a higher "chance" of getting a wolf.

I guess this means that at the end of the game only members of Oz will be left. What's going to be your plan then?

And I take it none of you have considered that there could be conversions in this game. There still haven't been any night kills, so what are the wolves doing? Could they be converting members? Members of a tribe that supposedly doesn't have a wolf?

I apologize for the language, but I'm seriously pissed that I'm going to be punished for something out of my control. And I've spent too much time and energy on this game to go down without a fight.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 02:05 PM

I'm more worried about the seer not scanning Gram or me.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 02:06 PM

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 02:07 PM

Well this was an idea created by someone from Oz who we know isnt a wolf, that provides the mathematical best chance at removing the other wolves.

How do you know they aren't a wolf? A couple of days ago this was true, but today?

Alan T

02-13-2007, 02:08 PM

How do you know they aren't a wolf? A couple of days ago this was true, but today?

I think to give up on going after the sure thing to chase maybes is something a wolf would want us to do.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 02:09 PM

ie: We -know- there were wolves in Lupus and Howard and Helsing.. We don't know that there have been conversions.

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:12 PM

Hey all. Just cheking in for a bit int eh mian thread, outside of our tribe thread. Can;t say I can argue with the whole "kill them foreigner's" now logic, but of course, the nature of statistics is that there's always flaws. Let's say you spend the next three tribal councils taking out Lupus. Tomorrow, Thursday, and then Friday/weekend. That gives the wolves three days do whatever mischief they can do - and at this point, is questionable what exactly they can or can't do - and that worries me.

Please note that although JE and path initially had a 1 in 4 chance of being wolve,s in teh meantim time, tow of those people have been killed at council, so there's no guanratee that there're wolves in that group of two. The only way you can be sure, of cours,e is to kill them too. That's two more days.

Therefore we are looking at five days of ousting the two smaller tribes. Once that is cleared, who knows what has happened ot eh wolf end? Night kills? Conversions? Control over votes and whatnot? A dead seer? Manipulated challenges for days?

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 02:13 PM

clicked in and out of somewhere

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:15 PM

Alan T

02-13-2007, 02:17 PM

Again, I think its probably the way to go, I just think that clever wolves can get around it and keep on working inteh meantime. It also means at least one wolf is safe from tribal kills for five councils.

Its not like the seer won't be scanning for that "safe" wolf during that time. Also its not like if another approach was taken and we randomly guess at if Oz members were converted or which of the 6 helsing members is the wolf, they couldn't be doing conversions either.

Most likely if a wolf is going to do a conversion, its someone in Oz. If a wolf is going to do a night kill, its someone in Oz. This strategy likely doesn't change that at all.

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 02:19 PM

I think to give up on going after the sure thing to chase maybes is something a wolf would want us to do.

Yeah, you know what Alan? You got me. I must be a wolf because I want to stay and win the game. :rolleyes:

Seriously, where does it end? You can vote out everyone in Howard, Lupus, and Helsing, but you still won't know if you got all the wolves. I brought this up days ago, but everyone seems to have forgotten: THIS IS SURVIVOR. THE GAME DOES NOT END WHEN ALL THE WOLVES ARE GONE. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE WINNER. If you guys want to go ahead and hand the title over to a random member of Oz, please let me know now so I can quit paying attention to this game.

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:20 PM

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:20 PM

I'll be interested in seeing how it plays out post game. That action alone has caused us as a team to go from trying to look out for Oz to now being completely indifferent to the team's welfare. It feels like while we were trying to look out for the seer's best interest, Oz as a team was more interested in positioning themselves to try to mess with us.

Perhaps thats not really how things were behind the scenes, but with our limited viewpoint here, that is definitly how they appear right now.

I am currently commenting on news from yesterday - I was out almost all day long and want to get a few comments out there.

I totally agree with AlanT here.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 02:24 PM

Yeah, you know what Alan? You got me. I must be a wolf because I want to stay and win the game. :rolleyes:

Seriously, where does it end? You can vote out everyone in Howard, Lupus, and Helsing, but you still won't know if you got all the wolves. I brought this up days ago, but everyone seems to have forgotten: THIS IS SURVIVOR. THE GAME DOES NOT END WHEN ALL THE WOLVES ARE GONE. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE WINNER. If you guys want to go ahead and hand the title over to a random member of Oz, please let me know now so I can quit paying attention to this game.

You know.. to be honest with you.. I can understand fully.. it probably stinks to be in your position.. But you are completely right. this is werewolf and this is survivor.. It just makes the most sense to me at least to follow through with this plan as it accomplishes both goals (removing the werewolves as well as the survivor aspect). My personal hope is once we remove those two wolves, the seer will have found the last wolf in helsing before we have to randomly look for him.

I understand where you are coming from, but you also have to understand my viewpoint too.. this is my best path as a villager right now to continue on. I am pretty sure any non-wolf in Oz or Helsing this is their best path also. I'm not trying to be dirty or underhanded.. in fact I am being up front about it all. I'm not setting up any fake alliance with Howard or Lupus members in my tribe.. I am trying to say this is what I would like to do.

If other Helsing or Oz members wish to break that alliance and not go with the plan, well it could mess it up really badly but its their choice completely. I do feel bad for the non-wolves in lupus or Howard, but its the same as how I feel bad for a day 1 vote in new games that people play. At some point everyone has to go and usually its unfair.

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:24 PM

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:28 PM

completely understood but is there a better strategy?

I don't wanna die. Let's get that out of the way first. I trst my former teammates Swaggs and KWhit, even though I've been told that one of them is a wolf. I've seen them in action. So I admit that it can be tough to root out wolves on our own and this strategy makes sense.

If you are going to start going down this path, we have to see it through to its conclusion barring the seer coming out and claiming "This is a wolf". Are we willing to do that? I don;t know. Obviously, I'd rather that the new teams got to know their teammates and vote based on that. Who knows how many wolves there are out there right now?

I do think that the analysis for the other team (who's name I can't rememebr right now) is flawed. There is not a 1 in four chance of them being wolves but either a 1 in two chance or zero chance, since two have been killed at councils in th emeatime. I know that if Lupus had voted someone out, I'd protest this strategy more. I'm not, because I see why we should do it, I'd just prefer something else to come down the pike, if that makes sense.

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 02:28 PM

I understand where you are coming from, but you also have to understand my viewpoint too.. this is my best path as a villager right now to continue on.

It's also the best path for a wolf to travel on, too. Let's spend the next couple days going after the remaining members of Howard and Lupus, and then we'll focus on Helsing. We already know that there's a wolf in Helsing, so it makes perfect sense for him to go along with this plan as well.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 02:30 PM

I think that's the thing of it. It makes sense for the majority, and it seems like the merger is causing a bit of tyranny by the majority.

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 02:32 PM

2. Once we eliminate all the wolve I at least know I won't be eaten while I sleep.

See, that's the thing. How can you know that there aren't any more wolves? Will BK make an annoucement? For all we know, there could be three or four more wolves in the game since Friday (or whenever it was you all asked your questions). There haven't been any kills and doesn't that usually equate to conversions?

Vote me off if you must (and I don't see any way that won't happen), but don't think that by getting rid of Howard and Lupus or even Helsing that there aren't any more wolves in play.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 02:32 PM

Also, nobody knows if the Seer is still alive or not.

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:35 PM

See, that's the thing. How can you know that there aren't any more wolves? Will BK make an annoucement? For all we know, there could be three or four more wolves in the game since Friday (or whenever it was you all asked your questions). There haven't been any kills and doesn't that usually equate to conversions?

Vote me off if you must (and I don't see any way that won't happen), but don't think that by getting rid of Howard and Lupus or even Helsing that there aren't any more wolves in play.

well i will know if there are no night kills

again, I understand your frustration but unless someone comes forward with something better I see no reason to deviate

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:35 PM

I will answer any questions that are asked. I will also give some information. This came straight from RA, so you can believe it or not. Call it a make-up for missing the wiki.

1. Wolfs can not communicate until they find each other. They must scan for another wolf until they find one. RA said he scanned Lathum and he was not a wolf, but who knows if that was true or not.
2. RA wanted to help us. He wanted to scan and tell us about the other wolfs. He volunteered to be another seer, basically.
3. My understanding is that each wolf can kill at night, but they may can only do once every two days or something of that effect. However, if they save up the energy they can build up to consecutive kills. RA did not say this directly, but I believe that is what he was implying.
4. RA knew he had been scanned. He denied this but why else would he come out with it. Whether or not he knew who scanned him is the million dollar question.

I think that is it. I will go review the whole thing again but that should give you enough to chew on.

Anotehr comment of mine from the yesterday posts. Is this what we are relying on? You guys see the obvious lies, right? He claims that wolves cannot communicate and then claims that "Each wolf" can kill at night.

Well, how would he know what each wolf can do? Maybe the wolves can't communicate so this was merely RA's slate of powers. Maybe they have to find each other first (like in the Egypt game). Maybe they can communicate and he was trying to throw the trail. And, most importanly, maybe this has all changed since then.

A lot of maybes arive when a person is obviously lying. "Each wolf" can be true alongside "no communication." With that lie exposed, you have to wonder how much of this stuff really is true.

I beleive that RA was a wolf because the scans came back that Oz was clean, and one wolf per tribe makes sense. On the other hand, don't you sometimes wonder what his angle was? I wish I could have seen the actual conversation.

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:36 PM

Also, nobody knows if the Seer is still alive or not.

i think it is a safe assumption the seer is alive

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:36 PM

I think that's the thing of it. It makes sense for the majority, and it seems like the merger is causing a bit of tyranny by the majority.

It makes sense for the majority from a survivor perspective, absolutely. Vote these poeple off over the next two weeks and you are guaranteed to survive to the endgame.

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 02:41 PM

Ok here's the lineups for our RPS show-down:

A-Anxiety vs Lathum
B-Passacaglia vs Swaggs
C-ImTheCrew vs Mr. Wednesday
D-Jonathan Ezarik vs Cronin
E-KWhit vs Path
F-Golden Eagle vs Path
G-ardent enthusiast vs Alan
H-Grammaticus vs SnDvls

Good luck to all. Remember to post IN your thread which thing you are throwing.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 02:41 PM

i think it is a safe assumption the seer is alive

How so?

And I think it makes more sense to vote out the Lupus / Howard tribe members in the Helsing thread first.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 02:42 PM

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:44 PM

How so?

And I think it makes more sense to vote out the Lupus / Howard tribe members in the Helsing thread first.

I don't think that matters either way ans I stated as much earlier.

We can assume the seer is alive since we know the seer is in Oz and we surmised RA was a wolf.

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:45 PM

Lathum, you my friend, are going DOWN!

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:49 PM

Lathum, you my friend, are going DOWN!

bring it!!

Alan T

02-13-2007, 02:49 PM

Barkeep, what happens in case of a tie 4 points each team? Also is this for immunity/tribal council?

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:50 PM

Here is where I am try to play with Lathum's mind

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGVIS/rock_slide.jpg

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:51 PM

Hmm, image ain;t shoiwng, let me find another

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:52 PM

Here is where I am try to play with Lathum's mind

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGVIS/rock_slide.jpg

i'm scarred of your red X

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 02:52 PM

LEt's try this again, here is where I freak out Lathum.

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/VI/en-us/Card3699.jpg

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 02:54 PM

I don't think that matters either way ans I stated as much earlier.

We can assume the seer is alive since we know the seer is in Oz and we surmised RA was a wolf.

Schmidty could have been the seer.

Tyrith

02-13-2007, 02:54 PM

I'll beat that, Anxiety.

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=5705#

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 02:54 PM

Is it best of three?
No best of 1 for each match-up.

Tyrith

02-13-2007, 02:55 PM

Aw, damnit, my image didn't work. I was going to post Paper Tiger :(

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 02:56 PM

I think you guys should eliminate your Lupus / Howard member first. Pass and I are in the minority over here. If you guys take the lead, then Oz should be willing to follow suit.

KWhit

02-13-2007, 02:56 PM

I just opened the old Howard thread instead of the new. Sorry - didn't see anything.

Lathum

02-13-2007, 02:58 PM

Schmidty could have been the seer.

fair point. did he speak up at all before being voted off?

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 02:58 PM

No best of 1 for each match-up.

Bah, you know nothing of Roshambau :)

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 03:02 PM

Bah, you know nothing of Roshambau :)
You're right that not doing best of three was a mistake. However, I don't want to so dramatically change the rules in the middle of the game.

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 03:36 PM

can we pm you what we throw to insure that no one peeks

Poli

02-13-2007, 03:47 PM

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 04:09 PM

can we pm you what we throw to insure that no one peeks
Nope all throws need to be in the thread.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Schmidty was not the seer. He more or less asked to be voted off. The seer is still in play.

Mr. Wednesday

02-13-2007, 04:20 PM

But if you had 2 wolves in your tribe at the time, then the information was compromised. No matter which 2 people they were, they could coordinate mis-information.

If only two wolves coordinated, though, one of them had to be on the Helsing question to revise that downward (because we only reported one wolf in Helsing). The other could be on either the total wolves question (then also revising that downward) or on another tribe (revising the other tribe upward so that the reported total remained the same).

In either case, we're still right about Oz having no wolves in it.

Mr. Wednesday

02-13-2007, 04:26 PM

SnDvls

02-13-2007, 04:28 PM

If only two wolves coordinated, though, one of them had to be on the Helsing question to revise that downward (because we only reported one wolf in Helsing). The other could be on either the total wolves question (then also revising that downward) or on another tribe (revising the other tribe upward so that the reported total remained the same).

In either case, we're still right about Oz having no wolves in it.

it would have had to been 3 people to get the info wrong due to your "random" question. None of us knew what you were going to ask
so it would require 3 lies or 2 very lucky and daring wolves to pull it off

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 04:28 PM

Helsing, what is your call on eliminating your group first?

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 04:29 PM

fair point. did he speak up at all before being voted off?

Schmidty definitely had a chance to convince us he wasn't the seer.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 04:31 PM

Helsing, what is your call on eliminating your group first?

The fact that there are MORE uncleared people in our group makes it vastly more likely that we will not get a wolf, since it makes it much more likely that we will not be able to focus on a single candidate, allowing the wolf/wolves to drive the voting.

Mr. Wednesday

02-13-2007, 04:32 PM

it would have had to been 3 people to get the info wrong due to your "random" question. None of us knew what you were going to ask
so it would require 3 lies or 2 very lucky and daring wolves to pull it off

My analysis pre-supposes that they would be taking the chance on my missing them with the random question, which would indeed have been risky.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 04:51 PM

1.25 among 6 for new Helsing, 1.25 among 5 for new Howard. Throw out the ones who are cleared, because they will certainly not be considered in voting.

Good point.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 04:58 PM

You have majority of old Helsing. We have not gotten this side to line up in agreement so far. Looks like it is going to be whoever loses will have to follow through.

SnDvls

02-13-2007, 05:41 PM

You have majority of old Helsing. We have not gotten this side to line up in agreement so far. Looks like it is going to be whoever loses will have to follow through.

well just tell me what you are going to throw and it will help us so you all lose ;)

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 06:12 PM

well just tell me what you are going to throw and it will help us so you all lose ;)

I thought that was agreed on already?

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 06:15 PM

left my computer on helsing, im sorry guys this is the third or 4th time ive done this today, im so confused with all theses diff foroums, read nothing i swear

SnDvls

02-13-2007, 06:21 PM

I thought that was agreed on already?

I thought so too, but it seems we're being told in our thread that former Oz members in the new Howard tribe aren't on board with it. is that what you are seeing in your thread?or should I be concerned we're being fed bad info?

Poli

02-13-2007, 06:32 PM

Played hooky from work long enough. Heading in. Hope to be able to log in there, but no promises.

Apparently, for the first time in the 3+ years I've been here, we're on "essential personnel only" status.

I'm shocked.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:04 PM

I thought so too, but it seems we're being told in our thread that former Oz members in the new Howard tribe aren't on board with it. is that what you are seeing in your thread?or should I be concerned we're being fed bad info?

Yes that is true.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:07 PM

BK, it would help if you could update the title thread. It looks like we were in night actions already.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 07:08 PM

kind of dissapointing but not suprising based on last weekend. I've been impressed with Cronin's ability to try to work with people and come up with a plan thats best for the village. Sounds like you all haven't had as good of luck.

I guess we'll let people's actions speak for them.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:15 PM

I still think you guys should throw it as you have a group consensus on your end. We would still have enough for control at the next merge.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 07:18 PM

I still think you guys should throw it as you have a group consensus on your end. We would still have enough for control at the next merge.

At this point its too late, the majority of people agreed to it anyways and already submitted their action. It will just be interesting to see which Oz people go against their alliance and keep that in mind for once all the wolves are dead.

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 07:24 PM

At this point its too late, the majority of people agreed to it anyways and already submitted their action. It will just be interesting to see which Oz people go against their alliance and keep that in mind for once all the wolves are dead.

Just so everyone is on the same page here: When will you know that all the wolves are dead?

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:26 PM

Just so everyone is on the same page here: When will you know that all the wolves are dead?

when they stop killing us

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:28 PM

At this point its too late, the majority of people agreed to it anyways and already submitted their action. It will just be interesting to see which Oz people go against their alliance and keep that in mind for once all the wolves are dead.

Can't you change actions? Or just tell us what you chose and we will apply accordingly.

Passacaglia

02-13-2007, 07:31 PM

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 07:31 PM

when they stop killing us

In other words, once all members of Howard, Lupus, and Helsing are gone.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:32 PM

Can't you change actions? Or just tell us what you chose and we will apply accordingly.

We're throwing ROCK in any matchup where our opponent is not acting like a wolf.

Alan T

02-13-2007, 07:33 PM

Its all cool. if we get betrayed, we already have an idea who is going to go first for our side. Its just keeping track of who is not with us for later on is all.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:33 PM

Pass, go read our thread.

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:34 PM

You do understand that if we lose, this side has not agreed to (Oz) to follow suit.

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 07:35 PM

when they stop killing us

I love funny quotes like this. When did they start?

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:35 PM

In other words, once all members of Howard, Lupus, and Helsing are gone.

good grief

what is your plan, exactly? not for SURVIOR, because that part is clear, but for WEREWOLF. what do you think we should do?

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:37 PM

I love funny quotes like this. When did they start?

Do you think they won't start? Because that would be cool.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:38 PM

You do understand that if we lose, this side has not agreed to (Oz) to follow suit.

Has not agreed to do what? I don't understand. If you lose the challenge, you vote somebody off. Are they not agreeing to vote off somebody they think is a wolf?

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:39 PM

BK, what happens if a player does not vote? Does the team lose or does the player just lose their round?

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 07:39 PM

ok im vs mrw what should i throw?

Grammaticus

02-13-2007, 07:39 PM

Has not agreed to do what? I don't understand. If you lose the challenge, you vote somebody off. Are they not agreeing to vote off somebody they think is a wolf?

Don't be an azz

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 07:41 PM

ok im vs mrw what should i throw?
??

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:41 PM

ok im vs mrw what should i throw?

scissors

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:42 PM

Don't be an azz

well, if somebody else understands what you're trying to say, I could use some help, because I have no idea

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 07:43 PM

so i lose???

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 07:43 PM

good grief

what is your plan, exactly? not for SURVIOR, because that part is clear, but for WEREWOLF. what do you think we should do?

See, that's the thing. I'm playing SURVIVOR. You can talk about sacrificing for the village all you want, but since the village is for me being voted off, the village can go to hell. I'm all out for saving myself, here. There's only going to be one winner. One. What's so hard to understand about that?

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:44 PM

so i lose???

So your tribe loses. It would be shocking if you got voted off.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 07:45 PM

See, that's the thing. I'm playing SURVIVOR. You can talk about sacrificing for the village all you want, but since the village is for me being voted off, the village can go to hell. I'm all out for saving myself, here. There's only going to be one winner. One. What's so hard to understand about that?

It's not hard to understand. It's just that, as far as I can tell, you're not putting forward an alternative course of action that makes any sense to us. If you come up with one, I guarantee I'll listen.

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 07:51 PM

It's not hard to understand. It's just that, as far as I can tell, you're not putting forward an alternative course of action that makes any sense to us. If you come up with one, I guarantee I'll listen.

Since everyone is obsessed with looking at this like WW and not Survivor, what can I say? If this is the way everyone wants to play it, there is no other option.

But let me ask you this: If you were originally in Howard or Lupus, what would you be doing right now? Would you support the plan of voting off Howard and Lupus members?

Lathum

02-13-2007, 07:56 PM

Since everyone is obsessed with looking at this like WW and not Survivor, what can I say? If this is the way everyone wants to play it, there is no other option.

But let me ask you this: If you were originally in Howard or Lupus, what would you be doing right now? Would you support the plan of voting off Howard and Lupus members?

of course not, I would be trying to come up with an alternitive solution

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 07:59 PM

of course not, I would be trying to come up with an alternitive solution

If you can come up with one to convince everyone that this is not a normal WW game, please let me know.

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 08:01 PM

I'd appreciate it if someone in each tribe could aggregate anything that's been thrown. I'm about to go through and look, but since I just got home, and couldn't do it as the day progressed, I'm worried I might miss some and would appreciate the double check. This check could be PM'ed to me even, if people are worried about that.

KWhit

02-13-2007, 08:03 PM

If you can come up with one to convince everyone that this is not a normal WW game, please let me know.

One clue that this is not a normal WW game:

NO WOLF HAS KILLED ANYBODY YET!!!!!

KWhit

02-13-2007, 08:04 PM

Not yelling at you, Jon. Just wanted emphasis.

:)

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 08:10 PM

If you all follow the plan to oust Howard and Lupus members first, this is how the teams will break down:

Helsing:
Alan - H
cronin - O
Lathum - H
Mr. W - H
SnDvls - H

Howard:
Ardent - O
Golden - O
Gramm - H
ITC - O
Pass - H

After that, the Helsing players will have to go. For Howard, that won't be a problem since the majority of players left will be Oz. It's a little bit difficult for Helsing, but I'm sure cronin will claim to be the seer so all pressure will be off him. And in the end, there will be a majority of Oz players left. Whatever Helsing players are still in play when the tribes merge again, they will be outnumbered by the Oz members. See how it works?

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 08:16 PM

JE, you are leaving out seer scans and night kills in your analysis. Plus at some point the two tribes will probably be recombined.

Jonathan Ezarik

02-13-2007, 08:20 PM

JE, you are leaving out seer scans and night kills in your analysis. Plus at some point the two tribes will probably be recombined.

The only seer scans there will be to go off of will come from a member of Oz. Think they won't do whatever it takes to get as many members of Oz into the final tribe? Especially with all the questionable actions that that tribe has already made?

And I'm leaving out night kills until anything actually happens.

Poli

02-13-2007, 08:51 PM

when they stop killing us

*at work*Cronin, no matter what, I'll buy you a hat.

Poli

02-13-2007, 08:51 PM

I tried. I put in font color grey.

KWhit

02-13-2007, 08:52 PM

Looks green to me.

:)

Poli

02-13-2007, 08:54 PM

Funny, very funny. I hate work.

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 08:56 PM

It's nice and gray for me.

KWhit

02-13-2007, 08:56 PM

It's nice and gray for me.

Seriously? It is lime green to me.

Poli

02-13-2007, 08:57 PM

Lime green here as well. That's odd.

Lathum

02-13-2007, 08:58 PM

gray for me also

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 08:59 PM

Seriously? Gray was misspelled but still displaying correctly with-in the tags for me. I just fixed the spelling. Does it appear correctly now?

Poli

02-13-2007, 08:59 PM

Wow. That's...weird.

Poli

02-13-2007, 09:00 PM

Grey misspelled? Never!

ImTheCrew

02-13-2007, 09:01 PM

DING

Lathum

02-13-2007, 09:01 PM

now it's lime green

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 09:04 PM

I wonder just how much coordination there was today? Interesting results, to say the least. Let’s take a look at them.
<o:p> </o:p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 13.5pt;" width="86"> Throw<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 13.5pt;" width="86"> Howard<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 13.5pt;" width="86"> Helsing<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 64.5pt; height: 13.5pt;" width="86"> Throw<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Anxiety<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Lanthum<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Scissors<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Scissors<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Pass<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Swaggs<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Scissors<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> ITC<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Mr. W<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Jonathan<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Cronin<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Paper<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Kwhit<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Path<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Paper<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Paper<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> GE<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Path<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> AE<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Alan<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 12.75pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 13.5pt;"> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Scissors<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Gram<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> SnDvls<o:p></o:p>
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt; height: 13.5pt;"> Rock<o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
So with a narrow 3-2 victory Helsing once again continues its winning ways. That means someone from Howard will be voted out tomorrow.

See all the Survivors back here in the morning for a new challenge. Night orders due by <st1:time minute="0" hour="9">9 AM</st1:time>, as always.

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 09:05 PM

waaay too many smileys for me

Abe Sargent

02-13-2007, 09:05 PM

Heh, I beat Lathum after I tiold him EXACTLY what I'd throw in this very thread. ;)

Barkeep49

02-13-2007, 09:06 PM

Sorry for the short writeup, but the net has been coming and going and I wanted to get results posted.

st.cronin

02-13-2007, 09:07 PM

Well lots of unexpected stuff there.