OOTP 2007

[SirFozzie]

Ok, checkin Da Wiki, it's not THAT bad.. he legitimately made his major league debut in 1925 at age 17.. but still.. 29 years in the majors?

[Markus Heinsohn]

29 year career? drafted and in the majors at age 16? Um.....

Well in real life he made his MLB debut with 17. In OOTP the draft is held in mid season by default, containing players that debuted in the next season in real life. You can prevent something like this to happen when you set the draft in the offseason, but I personally like the possibility of a player having his debut a bit earlier than in reality. :)

[Markus Heinsohn]

Ok, checkin Da Wiki, it's not THAT bad.. he legitimately made his major league debut in 1925 at age 17.. but still.. 29 years in the majors?

That is a log time, but this league had a) injuries set to low and b) a HR leaderboard that matches real life in terms of number of people > 500 pretty closely.

So, in essence, Foxx had a LOT of luck in his OOTP career :D

[MrBug708]

That RBI # would bug the heck out of Foxx I'd imagine

[Markus Heinsohn]

What happened with Ruth, Bonds, and Sosa?

Ruth probably stayed a pitcher and the other two avoided drugs in OOTP :p

[Bee]

Initially it is set when recalculating the ratings. However, the AI will set it back the next day if necessary once it has set up its roster.

A good example from my blog sim is Pete Rose. Rose spend virtually all of the 1970's in my sim playing second base for the Reds, despite the fact he was an outfielder and third baseman during that time period in real life. The reason was the Reds did not acquire Joe Morgan from Houston in this sim so there was a need at second base.

If I understand correctly, that's great news.

So, it's possible that someone like Smoltz could stay as a starting pitcher beyond when he did in real life? If in the sim, the team he's on needs starting pitching and the game converts him to a reliever, the AI can convert him back the next day and would basically keep doing that every recalculation period until it determines he's more valuable as a reliever than he would be as a starter?

[CraigSca]

I wonder if the AI is that smart when it comes to pitching? I can see it moving a player around for obvious reasons (hey, we have no 2nd baseman!), but for something as subtle as moving a guy back and forth to/from the bullpen, I'm not so sure.

Since I don't have a copy of it, I'll defer to TigerFan.

[TigerFan1]

29 year career? drafted and in the majors at age 16? Um.....

In real life Foxx was in the majors at age 17. Like I said it was a one in a million type career as he stayed healthy (again injuries were set to low) and he lasted until age 45.

[Bee]

Yep, it might not work with pitchers. The recalculation might lower the stamina too much once they've been converted to reliever for it to be attractive to the AI to switch them back.

[Ksyrup]

29 year career? drafted and in the majors at age 16? Um.....

That would be based on when he was first available in the Lahman database. And if you look at his career, his first action IRL was at age 17. The dfference is, he didn't play full-time until he was 20.

I have no problem with this if it's close to real life and it happens sparingly. In fact, it's things like this that give the leagues we create some uniqueness. Why can't there be a gifted athlete who dominates at an early age - just so long as not everyone is in the majors by their teens. But here, this is a combination, I assume, of him starting early and putting up HoF numbers IRL..

[Ksyrup]

Howard Johnson and Kal Daniels...this is why I greatly prefer the "X Factor" (to borrow an FOF term) in my historical sims instead of the replay quality stats we will get with the new recalculate mode.

[TigerFan1]

What happened with Ruth, Bonds, and Sosa?

Ruth stayed as a pitcher because with recalculate off he will not automatically switch to the outfield like in real life. It can be manually done but I let this sim by itself while I was at work so I made no changes.

Ruth was 211-215 for the Browns over his career.

Barry Bonds hit 435 career homers, retiring after the 2000 season. His lifetime batting average was .251 and his best season was 1987 when he was .315,37,102

Sosa suffered an injury that cost him 7 months of the 1992 season and he never recovered. He played part-time a couple more seasons but was not the same player he was prior to the injury. Sosa hit just 94 homers in 714 career games.

[TigerFan1]

The first position player that came to mind to compare with Foxx was Robin Yount, who made his real life major league debut as an 18 year old. Again, because I held the ammy draft in June, the player debuts a year ahead of real-life but as you can see he really struggled as a 17 year old.

In the sim, Yount had a decent career but not as good as he fared in real life.


ROBIN YOUNT
Year/Team/League Age G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI AVG
1973 Chicago - ML 17 42 111 20 2 1 1 13 .180
1974 Chicago - ML 18 143 584 162 26 7 5 59 .277
1975 Chicago - ML 19 149 645 209 41 5 8 69 .324
1976 Chicago - ML 20 149 610 166 39 7 7 65 .272
1977 Chicago - ML 21 149 639 210 37 9 21 89 .329
1978 Chicago - ML 22 106 437 113 16 4 7 36 .259
1979 Chicago - ML 23 137 570 168 43 6 9 75 .295
1980 Chicago - ML 24 92 354 93 19 3 5 61 .263
1981 Chicago - ML 25 141 595 172 32 7 13 81 .289
1982 Chicago - ML 26 150 567 159 31 1 18 56 .280
1983 Chicago - ML 27 153 633 177 28 5 27 84 .280
1984 Chicago - ML 28 122 504 145 39 2 5 50 .288
1985 Chicago - ML 29 130 384 95 19 1 11 50 .247
1986 Oakland - ML 30 126 457 107 26 2 13 61 .234
1987 Oakland - ML 31 150 563 133 41 2 19 74 .236
1988 Oakland - ML 32 45 155 42 11 0 4 22 .271
1989 Oakland - ML 33 153 493 110 24 2 7 47 .223
1990 Oakland - ML 34 145 519 129 25 5 6 50 .249
1991 Oakland - ML 35 96 271 67 7 1 7 21 .247
1992 Oakland - ML 36 73 201 37 11 1 2 17 .184[b]
Total ML 20 yrs. 2451 9292 2514 517 71 195 1080 .271
REAL LIFE TOTALS 20 yrs 2856 11008 3142 583 126 251 1406 .285


I just wanted to post this player to make sure you understand that Jimmie Foxx's showing in this sim was an extremely rare event from what I have seen in testing. I agree with Ksyrup's thoughts that it really adds some uniqueness to the league.

Howard Johnson and Kal Daniels...this is why I greatly prefer the "X Factor" (to borrow an FOF term) in my historical sims instead of the replay quality stats we will get with the new recalculate mode.

Sorry to take so long responding. Had a busy couple of days at work.


HOWARD JOHNSON

Year/Team/League Age G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R BB K AVG
1981 Houston - ML 20 89 347 84 6 3 11 43 58 37 68 .242
1982 Houston - ML 21 154 584 146 27 1 21 99 101 94 128 .250
1983 Houston - ML 22 114 419 126 13 2 31 93 87 85 92 .301
1984 Houston - ML 23 138 523 152 27 6 33 101 96 76 107 .291
1985 Houston - ML 24 151 572 168 20 2 44 129 103 71 89 .294
1986 Houston - ML 25 146 529 150 21 0 45 129 105 92 98 .284
1987 Houston - ML 26 130 512 141 24 3 44 97 104 72 111 .275
1988 Houston - ML 27 110 410 127 9 1 45 101 87 55 77 .310
1989 Houston - ML 28 149 582 171 30 6 44 132 104 71 121 .294
1991 Houston - ML 30 140 538 144 27 1 24 75 79 63 111 .268
1992 Houston - ML 31 118 422 111 27 1 20 59 63 58 91 .263
1993 Houston - ML 32 136 376 107 26 2 20 68 67 61 78 .285
1994 Houston - ML 33 138 525 144 30 2 39 119 100 71 107 .274
1995 Colorado - ML 34 117 433 116 28 2 30 83 79 59 106 .268
1996 Colorado - ML 35 127 492 106 17 0 32 83 61 53 121 .215
1997 Colorado - ML 36 152 583 193 36 3 61 166 130 84 95 .331
1998 Colorado - ML 37 142 517 137 28 1 38 126 104 89 105 .265
1999 Colorado - ML 38 91 329 96 12 0 40 95 73 59 58 .292
2000 Colorado - ML 39 139 505 131 21 1 45 119 93 84 122 .259
2001 Colorado - ML 40 124 253 57 12 3 14 44 33 28 68 .225
Total ML 20 yrs. 2605 9451 2607 441 40 681 1961 1727 1362 1953 .276
REAL LIFE 14 yrs. 1531 4940 1229 247 22 228 760 760 692 1053 .249


HoJo led the majors in homeruns three times in his career including 1997 when he hit a career high 61 while enjoying the high altitude in Colorado. He also drove in 166 runners that season, the fifth highest alltime, en route to being named National League MVP. His 681 career homeruns rank 4th alltime. He is 6th in career rbi's with 1961. Johnson began his career with the Astros afer being drafted 11th overall in 1981. A clutch playoff performer, he won a World Series while with Houston and batted .325 with 9 homers and 37 rbi's in 39 career postseason games.


KAL DANIELS
Year/Team/League Age G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R BB K AVG
1985 San Francisco - ML 21 92 346 100 15 6 10 44 55 46 46 .289
1986 San Francisco - ML 22 156 557 159 31 9 28 89 121 121 101 .285
1987 San Francisco - ML 23 150 537 192 28 5 48 120 134 115 81 .358
1988 San Francisco - ML 24 131 479 153 29 8 22 69 89 98 87 .319
1989 San Francisco - ML 25 152 554 158 30 5 24 77 101 103 118 .285
1990 San Francisco - ML 26 83 311 113 15 6 21 57 61 62 40 .363
1991 San Francisco - ML 27 107 396 122 17 2 17 60 79 72 74 .308
1992 San Francisco - ML 28 154 559 183 33 4 29 97 117 110 99 .327
1993 San Francisco - ML 29 121 449 142 21 1 36 87 93 79 97 .316
1994 San Francisco - ML 30 140 546 188 28 6 41 113 126 76 101 .344
1995 San Francisco - ML 31 103 380 130 14 5 28 81 89 65 64 .342
1996 San Francisco - ML 32 122 453 135 21 5 36 95 103 94 98 .298
1997 San Francisco - ML 33 108 395 111 17 5 31 79 100 81 102 .281
1998 San Francisco - ML 34 124 414 126 17 7 31 87 80 75 102 .304
1999 San Francisco - ML 35 140 458 151 17 4 36 108 110 78 90 .330
2000 San Francisco - ML 36 142 482 138 27 4 34 102 104 86 113 .286
2001 San Francisco - ML 37 104 392 110 22 2 20 63 76 59 87 .281
2002 San Francisco - ML 38 144 565 158 23 1 30 105 93 62 159 .280
2003 San Francisco - ML 39 150 545 144 28 3 13 64 72 60 140 .264
Total ML 19 yrs. 2423 8818 2713 433 88 535 1597 1803 1542 1799 .308
REAL LIFE 727 2338 666 125 8 104 360 391 365 493 .285

1985 JUNE DRAFT
Rd Pick By Player G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI AVG
1 23 CHN Rafael Palmeiro 2584 9630 3298 583 58 665 1988 .342
1 4 ATL Mark McGwire 2111 7403 1824 256 27 558 1518 .246
1 9 SFN Kal Daniels 2423 8818 2713 433 88 535 1597 .308
1 3 CAL Barry Bonds 2040 6677 1673 275 43 435 1183 .251
1 25 CHA Will Clark 2149 8020 2351 455 38 406 1438 .293
3 13 DET Ron Karkovice 2478 9392 2126 377 42 381 1413 .226
2 20 ML4 Wally Joyner 2713 10519 3130 532 60 376 1667 .298
2 16 PIT Ruben Sierra 1841 6478 1986 281 52 326 1080 .307


Daniels was part of the 1985 draft class, a group that has to be considered the best at developing power hitters.

[Hammer755]

If the new version of OOTP is similar 2006, changing the injury setting has a huge impact on career stats. The first thing I did after installing 06 was run a 50+ year historical sim and I inadvertantly turned injuries off. I thought it would have some effect, but it turned out to be much more dramatic than I anticipated.

[Galaril]

Two new Road to Release articles are up I have read only one and it is a great read as a guy tries to build the the Big Red Machine. I think the TRTR is agreat marketing idea and it is agreat way to advertise the game and inform people without being a hype machine. Good work gents across the pond so far. I am starting to seeing this one on my radar.

http://www.ootpbaseball.net/clubhouse.php?view=news&gid=26&id=1282

[Bee]

I saw something about 100 preview copies being given to some of the pre-orders on Monday. Does anyone know if that's the same time-limited preview that Marc mentioned earlier in this thread or something else?

[Ksyrup]

From that Cincy Reds TRTR:

"I love the Arod/Garlon database because they've taken the "bones" of Lahman and fixed ratings in the outfield and a number of other issues to make simming the history of baseball much more realistic."


Since I've been away form the OOTP community for a couple of years, what can anyone tell us about this database as compared to Lahman? Is it freely available somewhere, is it really better than Lahman? Just curious.

[spleen1015]

From that Cincy Reds TRTR:

"I love the Arod/Garlon database because they've taken the "bones" of Lahman and fixed ratings in the outfield and a number of other issues to make simming the history of baseball much more realistic."


Since I've been away form the OOTP community for a couple of years, what can anyone tell us about this database as compared to Lahman? Is it freely available somewhere, is it really better than Lahman? Just curious.

It is an improved version of the Lahman database.

[Ksyrup]

Reading that preview makes me even more deadset against the recalc button. Simply ignoring someone's history is possible, I guess, if you're playing an unfamiliar era, but if I'm playing in the 80s or 90s, how would I not let what I know color my moves? He mentions how Bernie Carbo had a great 1970 then fell off the map, just like in real life. Well, let's say I see Joe Carboneau in the rookie draft - why would I take him, even if I'm trying to ignore the fact that after 1 good year, he's essentially programmed to disappear?

This looks awesome for replaying seasons, and perhaps even simulating a back-history for your league that is as close to realistic as possible (before you take over your own team in the present), but for playing a historical career, I just don't see the fun of it. You're going to "know" without even looking how certain players' careers develop, and you'll either consciously ignore it or take full advantage of it. Neither choice is palatable to me.

In other words...thankfully it's just an option!

[Ksyrup]

It is an improved version of the Lahman database.

Where can I download it?

[Ksyrup]

I saw something about 100 preview copies being given to some of the pre-orders on Monday. Does anyone know if that's the same time-limited preview that Marc mentioned earlier in this thread or something else?


I don't know, but I did go ahead and pre-order the game. There is a general 10% discount on orders through today - different from the discount given to purchasers of OOTP6. I figure I'm going to buy it immediately if for no other reason than the historical sim capabilities, so why not save a few bucks.

[spleen1015]

Where can I download it?

I don't have a link, but a search of the OOTP boards should land you one.

[Bee]

I don't know, but I did go ahead and pre-order the game. There is a general 10% discount on orders through today - different from the discount given to purchasers of OOTP6. I figure I'm going to buy it immediately if for no other reason than the historical sim capabilities, so why not save a few bucks.

Oh...I already pre-ordered and got the 20% discount. I was just curious if the preview copy they were talking about for Monday would be time-limited. I'd love to play around with a preview copy, but with my schedule a 3 day limit hurts because I never have 3 days in row at home to spend playing a game.

[Icy]

Oh...I already pre-ordered and got the 20% discount. I was just curious if the preview copy they were talking about for Monday would be time-limited. I'd love to play around with a preview copy, but with my schedule a 3 day limit hurts because I never have 3 days in row at home to spend playing a game.

Limited to 5 days if i'm not mistaken.

[BigPapi]

Limited to 5 days if i'm not mistaken.

Interesting- I hadn't heard that. Doesn't really seem to make sense- as we're talking about a group that has already purchased the game- so I don't see the reasoning for a time limited demo as a tool to encourage purchasing if we already have- to what end?

I wonder if Marc could clarify this?

[Marc Duffy]

The preview version is exactly that, a preview version.

It's basically for people who pre-ordered (and also a selection of invited people) to play the game, for a limited amount of time, to see the game in action.

It was an idea aimed at encouraging people to pre-order.

[Marc Duffy]

Incidentally, thanks to all who have asked for a copy of the preview.

The offer is now closed.

[SirFozzie]

damn. Was going to ask (with spring training started, I'm jonesin for some baseball), but eh.. hope I'm one of the 100 selected I guess :)

[Galaril]

Reading that preview makes me even more deadset against the recalc button. Simply ignoring someone's history is possible, I guess, if you're playing an unfamiliar era, but if I'm playing in the 80s or 90s, how would I not let what I know color my moves? He mentions how Bernie Carbo had a great 1970 then fell off the map, just like in real life. Well, let's say I see Joe Carboneau in the rookie draft - why would I take him, even if I'm trying to ignore the fact that after 1 good year, he's essentially programmed to disappear?

This looks awesome for replaying seasons, and perhaps even simulating a back-history for your league that is as close to realistic as possible (before you take over your own team in the present), but for playing a historical career, I just don't see the fun of it. You're going to "know" without even looking how certain players' careers develop, and you'll either consciously ignore it or take full advantage of it. Neither choice is palatable to me.

In other words...thankfully it's just an option!


Gee.............. I never thought about the draft each year and not picking guys like Carbonaeu since we already know what is going to happen. That does throw a wrench into that recalc feature.

[jbmagic]

Gee.............. I never thought about the draft each year and not picking guys like Carbonaeu since we already know what is going to happen. That does throw a wrench into that recalc feature.

Stat wise similar to real life.

Injury wise not always simlar like real life.

[Ksyrup]

And it's problematic not just with rookies, but in a number of areas. Do you sign Dale Murphy as a free agent in 1986 to a 5-year deal? Bruce Sutter in 1985? Albert Belle in 1997? Daryl Strawberry in 1990? Do you sign Eckersley as a decent starting pitcher in 1985, knowing that he'll be a closer in a few years? How about Dave Stewart - he was crap for several teams in the mid 80s before he became an instant 20 game winner. Do you swing a deal for him as a throw-in and wait for him to all of a sudden turn into a rotation anchor?

Way too many issues to play in recalc mode other than a strict one season replay, or to set a sim and let the AI control every team.

[Marc Duffy]

I;ve rolled out preview code to guys in this thread, good luck young Jedi!

[Ksyrup]

Stat wise similar to real life.

Injury wise not always simlar like real life.

Based on a 3-year average, in 1983, Joe Carbonneau will have as much ability to play in the Majors as I did that year. Injuries may have killed his major league career, but all the game is going to do is average his RL stats to give you a composite player for your game. And after 1981 (I think it was), Joe C. was finished, for all intents and purposes.

[CraigSca]

Man, I should have posted in this thread more often!

[Ksyrup]

I see two problems with having a poster named Syd Thrift write a marketing piece for OOTP:

1. Some people might actually think it is a testimonial from the real guy. As ridiculous as it might seem, you ought to put a disclaimer on there or something that indicates the person uses that as his screen name.

2. Those same people will likely not buy a game that they think the real Syd Thrift gives a thumbs up. :)

[DanGarion]

I see two problems with having a poster named Syd Thrift write a marketing piece for OOTP:

1. Some people might actually think it is a testimonial from the real guy. As ridiculous as it might seem, you ought to put a disclaimer on there or something that indicates the person uses that as his screen name.

2. Those same people will likely not buy a game that they think the real Syd Thrift gives a thumbs up. :)
Syd's writing from the grave!!!! :eek:

[SunDevil]

Even a dead person vouching for this game will not convince me to pre-order this game. I am sorry Markus but you are going to have to wait until you release the game and get a good review from the majority of this board before I buy it. But SI good job on enlisting dead people to push your game. :)

[Ksyrup]

Ah, that's funny (in a respectful to the dead way). I forgot he died. But I guess that's an even better reason for people to not trust the guy's opinion. If he died before OOTP6, he obviously can't rightfully compare the two.

[SirFozzie]

I;ve rolled out preview code to guys in this thread, good luck young Jedi!

Anyword on when we would receive email if we were selected, Marc?

[Ksyrup]

Anyword on when we would receive email if we were selected, Marc?


/\
(Doesn't take rejection well)

:D

[Eaglesfan27]

My plans for this weekend just changed quite a bit. I've got a preview version, and I plan on running a long career tonight and throughout the weekend and to a lesser extent on Monday and Tuesday. I'm mainly going to be scouring the transaction wire for weird signings and releases. I'm also going to look at patterns of career arcs/retirement ages, etc. I'm also going to try to push the trade AI as well. I'm going to be going strictly from current day forward for at least the first few tests. SI has said (in a funny) email that there are no limits to what I post on here (or wherever) and they only ask that I post any significant issues on their forum as well. So, if there are other things that people want me to look at, let me know. I'll be posting my results in a mini-dynasty in the dynasty forum, just so I don't clutter up this or other threads (but I'll probably highlight things in here.)

[Ksyrup]

Awesome, glad to hear that you'll be testing the game.

I decided not to ask for a copy, since I'm trying to get NCAA Football 07 out of my system before baseball season starts.

[CraigSca]

Grats, EF27! I'm a "looser" and didn't receive a copy.

[JasonC23]

In TigerFan1's post up there, the team Robin Yount is listed as playing on for the first part of his career is "Chicago ML." Is there any way that can be modified so we know which Chicago team he played on? (Same goes for NY and LA, of course.)

[BigPapi]

My plans for this weekend just changed quite a bit. I've got a preview version, and I plan on running a long career tonight and throughout the weekend and to a lesser extent on Monday and Tuesday. I'm mainly going to be scouring the transaction wire for weird signings and releases. I'm also going to look at patterns of career arcs/retirement ages, etc. I'm also going to try to push the trade AI as well. I'm going to be going strictly from current day forward for at least the first few tests. SI has said (in a funny) email that there are no limits to what I post on here (or wherever) and they only ask that I post any significant issues on their forum as well. So, if there are other things that people want me to look at, let me know. I'll be posting my results in a mini-dynasty in the dynasty forum, just so I don't clutter up this or other threads (but I'll probably highlight things in here.)

If you're going forward from current day- can you check one thing for me specifically: I was convinced last year that the sim engine in regards to triples was broken- we were told that speed plus gap power would play a large role in the number of triples a player would hit. Makes sense....Except that current day king of triples Joes Reyes never finsished with more than 9 in any season I simmed- and often times would end up with 4 or 5- with seemingly no way to correct it; he was already maxed out for speed and gap power.

All the while guys like Lance Berkman and Aubrey Huff were often times leading the league in triples for no apparent reason. Maybe it was the roster set (CubbyFan) that I was using- but this was irritating to me (mildly- admittedly given OOTP 2006's other issues)- but it seems to me to speak about how well the game/simulation engine works. Thanks!

[Eaglesfan27]

If you're going forward from current day- can you check one thing for me specifically: I was convinced last year that the sim engine in regards to triples was broken- we were told that speed plus gap power would play a large role in the number of triples a player would hit. Makes sense....Except that current day king of triples Joes Reyes never finsished with more than 9 in any season I simmed- and often times would end up with 4 or 5- with seemingly no way to correct it; he was already maxed out for speed and gap power.

All the while guys like Lance Berkman and Aubrey Huff were often times leading the league in triples for no apparent reason. Maybe it was the roster set (CubbyFan) that I was using- but this was irritating to me (mildly- admittedly given OOTP 2006's other issues)- but it seems to me to speak about how well the game/simulation engine works. Thanks!


Sure. I'll add that to the list of things I'll look at after I get done the first chunk of simming.

[Pumpy Tudors]

After the Syd Thrift comments above, I hope nobody thinks that the real Pumpy Tudors is a hockey-loving assblack who has an irrational crush on Kathy Griffin. :(

[SFL Cat]

Wooo!!! 2,000 posts!

Carry on.

[SunDevil]

After the Syd Thrift comments above, I hope nobody thinks that the real Pumpy Tudors is a hockey-loving assblack who has an irrational crush on Kathy Griffin. :(


How didn't any of this come up when you faced the board? :D

[Ben E Lou]

My plans for this weekend just changed quite a bit. I've got a preview version, and I plan on running a long career tonight and throughout the weekend and to a lesser extent on Monday and Tuesday. I'm mainly going to be scouring the transaction wire for weird signings and releases. I'm also going to look at patterns of career arcs/retirement ages, etc. I'm also going to try to push the trade AI as well. I'm going to be going strictly from current day forward for at least the first few tests. SI has said (in a funny) email that there are no limits to what I post on here (or wherever) and they only ask that I post any significant issues on their forum as well. So, if there are other things that people want me to look at, let me know. I'll be posting my results in a mini-dynasty in the dynasty forum, just so I don't clutter up this or other threads (but I'll probably highlight things in here.)

What EF27 said. I'm installing in a few minutes, and will run an overnight sim.