Announcing: Fictional Player Factory for FOF2004

[Richards]

Greetings FOF Community.

I haven't posted here in some time, however I have been a member here for a long time, and have been playing Jim's excellent games all the way back.

About 18 months ago I started on a programming exercise in statistics and generating different distributions, which was related to something I was working on professionally at the time. Of course, to keep a learning exercise fun, best to do something you are interested in. Soon the project started to morph into a Alternate Player File generator for FOF2004. After some time, I thought it would be cool to do a draft file generator as well. I found this to be quite challenging and fun. Well somewhere along the line I didn't have time anymore to work on it.

Fast forward to recently, I dug out the draft file generator over the holidays, and coded it into something semi-useful.

What I call the Fictional Player Factory, generates random draft import files for FOF2004 for a given year.

How it works:
==========================
Using the information in "dcsv.txt" in the Fof2004 distribtion, the FPF generates a number of players based on the roughly logarithmic distribution published in the dcsv.txt file. Then filler or "nohoper" players are filled in to bring the draft file to 800-950 players or so.


Current Features:
===========================
*You can specify the level of "good players" or at least players who have a chance of being good. Appx 200 is the standard number and if you do not specify a number of players, you will get something close to this. Currently the adjustments to player talent are rather coarse. The best way to vary the talent pool in the draft is to raise or lower the number of "good players."

*While some players have a fairly random grouping of ratings, I also tried to create certain "types" of players at each position. For example, you might see some running backs with excellent 3rd Down running, but poor breakaway speed, a Jerome Bettis Type. Other running backs might have good speed and pass catching abilities, a 3rd down back.


*The distribution of player by college should be pretty close, but, there's currently no hometown<-->college link. They are independent of each other. Do people care about this?

Quick and Dirty Howto:
===========================
This software is ALPHA. It provides usable output, but there are certainly bugs and quirks. Familiarity with working with files and archives and text editors would be good. An alternative is to download some of the pre-generated draft files published on the web page below.

a) goto http://greenlight-systems.com/fof/fpf.html
b) fill in the year and the number of "good players" if desired and submit the form.
c) The file will be generated and you will be presented with a gzipped CSV file. If you have a browser that accepts gzip encoding such as Firefox, clicking on the .gz file will open the CSV file in your browser. Otherwise, you will be prompted to download the gzipped file.
d) Save the CSV file to your hard disk and note the location.
e) Load the "Draft File Generator" program in your FOF2004 directory. Click the "Generate Draft File" button.
f) select the CSV file that you just downloaded as the input, and then type the name of the FAF file to save as the output.
g) When the IMPORT DRAFT button is active in FOF2004 at the beginning of the season, select the FAF Output file to use as your import.


The FUTURE:
===========================
This software is at a good point for an initial public release because it is at a point where, a) I'd like to see if there is interest, and b) I'd like to see if there is feedback.

While the controls are rather coarse right now, the engine has a lot of capabilities, but I'd like to see what people are interested in first.

Some possibilities are:

*Drafts with great talent at some positions and poor talent at other, create a league with horrible QB's and WR's but with great RB's and OL's.
*Drafts with players with strange statistical breakdowns. What would a league be like if 90% of the defensive players out of college are speed rushers with no run stopping ability?
*Drafts with different distributions of talent. Most stats in FOF are logarithmically distributed. Why not try Normal, Gamma, Poisson, etc etc.?
*More player "types"


As I stated earlier, I've also got a version in the works that generates initial player files too, but I was more interested in the draft files, and there are some nice utilities for this in the community already. I will finish that at some point soon, and the same features would apply.


Again, I'm very much looking forward to your feedback. Let me know what you think. Remember, this is early ALPHA software. It is far from perfect but I'd interested in your opinions before I make improvements. Currently, I think ratings are still a bit on the low side.

If there is interest in this utility, I may open source the code, but that's getting a little ahead of the game.

Finally, for people who don't want to go through the trouble of converting CSV files with the Draft File Generator, I uploaded several PRE-Generated draft file packages.

It's all available at http://greenlight-systems.com/fof/fpf.html

ENJOy!!!

:D

[gottimd]

Great work and easy to use!

One note, I followed the instructions, and when I imported the file, when I looked at draft preview and selected a player, on the draftees player card, for College it gives statistics but obviously all 0's, and not the college name. (ie 0 tackles, 0 assists, etc)

[gottimd]

Dola

Can't remember if it is supposed to say Experience: 1 for a player entering the draft or if it says "R".

[Richards]

Great work and easy to use!

One note, I followed the instructions, and when I imported the file, when I looked at draft preview and selected a player, on the draftees player card, for College it gives statistics but obviously all 0's, and not the college name. (ie 0 tackles, 0 assists, etc)

Thanks for the feedback.

I forgot to list this.

*Player's statistics are not generated yet. :)

I'd assume this is something you'd like to see.

However, I did test this during development, and having/or not statistics does not affect the players ratings upon import.

[QuikSand]

Wondering if there might be a new challenge buried in here... perhaps playing the game with empty cupboard rules, with the settings for "good players" set extremely low -- so you'd have to build exclusively from draft classes that are deliberately barren or major talent (or nearly so). Interesting...

[Huckleberry]

Regarding the distribution used, I always figured that it should somehow be based on the tail end of a normal distribution. After all, NFL players represent the best of the general population.

There are approximately 30,000,000 males age 20 to 34 in the United States. Approximately 1,500 NFL players. So an incredibly rough number is .005% of the available population is good enough for the NFL. So the distribution should look like whatever the normal distribution looks like starting at about 3.9 standard deviations from the mean.

[Raiders Army]

Request a link in the reference thread.

[Yossarian]

Can't remember if it is supposed to say Experience: 1 for a player entering the draft or if it says "R".

It's R for drafted guys and 1 for undrafted fa's in my experience

[Richards]

Wondering if there might be a new challenge buried in here... perhaps playing the game with empty cupboard rules, with the settings for "good players" set extremely low -- so you'd have to build exclusively from draft classes that are deliberately barren or major talent (or nearly so). Interesting...

Yes actually one of the reasons doing something like this appealed to me (as a Math and Statistics geek) was to be able to be able to control the incoming players into the game/game engine over a long period of time and see the result.

Currently with the "good players" control it is like one big knob to control the output. However, the internal engine has a lot of capability.....so

If someone does want to do a challenge, and they dream up something somewhat complex, just let me know the specifications and I'll add an option to FPF.

E.g. Richard's Low Scoring League
--Avg Defensive player is 30% better than avg offensive player.
--No RB,WR or QB stars
--Lots of Lawrence Taylor Types
--Lots of Grady Jackson Types


Then I can just add a check box or drop down for it for "one-click" generation.

Another note: I'll have the Allocation Draft Generator (Alternate Player File) polished up soon so the league's player inputs can be completely controlled right from the start.

[Richards]

Regarding the distribution used, I always figured that it should somehow be based on the tail end of a normal distribution. After all, NFL players represent the best of the general population.

There are approximately 30,000,000 males age 20 to 34 in the United States. Approximately 1,500 NFL players. So an incredibly rough number is .005% of the available population is good enough for the NFL. So the distribution should look like whatever the normal distribution looks like starting at about 3.9 standard deviations from the mean.

Interesting. If you chop off the right tail of a normal distribution, scale it and superimpose it onto a logarithmic distribution (as specified by Jim as the distribution used in draft player ratings), they look very similar.

[Emiliano]

Hey Richards, great job on this! Very nice utility.

[Richards]

It's been awhile, but, any chance I can get the utility added to the "REFERENCE, STRATEGY, LINKS" thread? Thanks.

Also, still happy to hear any feedback or suggestions for improvements.

[MIJB#19]

It's been awhile, but, any chance I can get the utility added to the "REFERENCE, STRATEGY, LINKS" thread? Thanks.

Also, still happy to hear any feedback or suggestions for improvements.
Try posting in the Reference thread and/or PMing SkyDog.

[Richards]

Try posting in the Reference thread and/or PMing SkyDog.


Thanks, will do.

[Franklinnoble]

Wow... I missed this the first time around...

Is there an option to edit the draft file after it's been generated?

[Richards]

Wow... I missed this the first time around...

Is there an option to edit the draft file after it's been generated?


Well, the draft generator outputs text comma separated values in the FOF standard format which can be easily hand edited in a text editor like notepad before they're imported into FOF2004.

If you mean that can the draft files be globally edited after first generated, from within the program? this could certainly be added. If this is what you mean, what functionality would you be looking for?

[Franklinnoble]

Well, the draft generator outputs text comma separated values in the FOF standard format which can be easily hand edited in a text editor like notepad before they're imported into FOF2004.

If you mean that can the draft files be globally edited after first generated, from within the program? this could certainly be added. If this is what you mean, what functionality would you be looking for?

I was just referring to manual editing... I have no problem using Excel to do this... I just thought it'd be kind of neat to tweak the file right within the program. The CSV file isn't always easy to read.

[Ben E Lou]

Adding link to reference thread. This didn't generate much discussion. Was it missed? Is it useful?

[nilodor]

I think it got missed because this is a wonderful utility.

[MarylandHawk]

If only this could work in 2K7.

*sigh*

[yabanci]

If only this could work in 2K7.

*sigh*

It does work with FOF2k7, provided you have the draft file generator that came with FOF2k4 to convert the .csv into an .faf file the game can import.

[MarylandHawk]

When someone finds a way to separate out that code so everyone can use it (or if they decide to put 2K4 back on the market), I hope y'all will let me know. :(

[yabanci]

When someone finds a way to separate out that code so everyone can use it (or if they decide to put 2K4 back on the market), I hope y'all will let me know. :(

I don't understand what this means. If you don't have FOF2k4, email the csv files to my screenname at gmail.com and I'll convert them and send them back. It takes two seconds.

[Richards]

Hello all!

It's been a couple years since I released this, and since then for a period of time I was away from these forums, and away from gaming, as life got a little busy for awhile.

Anyway, I would really like to update FPF, especially for FOF2K7. It sounds like there are not that many changes to the import files?

Problem is, being away from the gaming scene for awhile, I don't own the game (FOF2k7). I plan to buy it, eventually, but I'm not sure when yet.

I would like to update the utility for players of FOF2k7. My question, is it possible for someone to post/send me the changes in the import datafile format between FOF2k4 and FOF2k7 WITHOUT violating any of Jim's copyrights?

What I'm getting at, I want to release a new version of the utility, but I don't want to step on Jim's toes, as I have much respect for him and the great games he has produced. What do you think? If there's only a few differences I'm sure they could be typed into a post without a problem.

Worst case, I'll just wait until I purchase the new game, at some undetermined time....I'm just waiting until I have a nice block of time to invest in playing that baby! Probably at the end of the summer sometime.

Anyway here's some things I have in mind:

* Adding a more detailed set of instructions for people who aren't as familiar with manipulating CSV files and working down at the filesystem level of the computer. I'm sure this has prevented people from using the utility in the past.

* Maybe adding some more controls for generating players, but at the very least:

* Pregenerated scenarios, package for download an initial player import as well as 20-30 years of draft files with the following characteristics --

** Unbalanced offensive league -- on average offensive players will be much better than defensive players. Few defensive stars. Many offensive stars

** Unbalanced defensive league -- on average defensive players will be much better than offensive players. Few offensive starts. Many defensive stars.

** Few and far between league -- Make the talent distribution an F distribution curve where 99% of the players will be "below average" and there will be a few stars, much better than the rest, with few "in between." This would be interesting to me both statistically and to see how contracts shake out.


Any feedback, as always, is appreciated.

p.s. In case you didn't see it at the top of the thread, the link for the existing FOF2k4 version of the Fictional PLayer Factory is Fictional Player Factory Web Player Generator (http://greenlight-systems.com/fof/)

Thanks

[Richards]

Also, it looks like (maybe in the move?) this old thread got put into "Off Topic" -- should it maybe be in FOF discussion? Maybe I'll read the forum guidelines.

[TheMeat]

I started reading this thread and thought it was a new utility for fof2k7 and was very excited about it, as one of my major wish list items for the game would be to have control over the draft pool. I think a new one would be fantastic to have, I'm especially interested in creating an unbalanced offensive league. Hope to hear more about this soonish Richards, very cool stuff.

[Richards]

I started reading this thread and thought it was a new utility for fof2k7 and was very excited about it, as one of my major wish list items for the game would be to have control over the draft pool. I think a new one would be fantastic to have, I'm especially interested in creating an unbalanced offensive league. Hope to hear more about this soonish Richards, very cool stuff.

Excellent, and I'm always open to feedback on other "knobs" people would like to see to control the output.

First and foremost, is updating the thing, and from what I understand shouldn't take much time, I just have to get my hands on the new data format first :)

I'll probably just have to buy the game sooner than later, as I suppose I can't properly test the update unless I have the game to import into.

[TheMeat]

As I thought about this today I had quite a few ideas for sliders that would be fun to play with. It would be very interesting to me to create a league where there were more 50-60 rated players than normal, but few to none in the 70's or 80's, then say 1 to 4 superstars (90+) per draft pool.

As I can see the SP element of this game running out of novelty value in the long run, I think a utility like this would really help. Being able to create themed leagues would bring new challenges to gameplanning, cap management, etc each time you changed the talent pool.

[Nogram]

Richards,

You don't need to wait for the new data format, the one for 2k4 works just fine.

While there is no draft conversion utility in the 2k7 version, if you download the 2k4 version and install it you get the draft conversion utility. You don't need to buy 2k4 to get this, simply download it from Jim's site. Then you can use the 2k4 utility to covert csv files into loadable draft files which work with both 2k4 and 2k7.

Nogram

[Nogram]

What I would like to see is a downloadable version of the program that would output the csv files. I am worried you website will go down at some point, then I am out of luck.

Nogram

[Richards]

Richards,

You don't need to wait for the new data format, the one for 2k4 works just fine.

While there is no draft conversion utility in the 2k7 version, if you download the 2k4 version and install it you get the draft conversion utility. You don't need to buy 2k4 to get this, simply download it from Jim's site. Then you can use the 2k4 utility to covert csv files into loadable draft files which work with both 2k4 and 2k7.

Nogram


Cool....

I guess I was under the impression from back when 2k7 came out that the CSV files were compatible, but the 2k7 version added one or two extra fields (blitz something?). But that is great that existing versions work.

I think one key will be posting detailed instructions on how to go from the downloaded generated file to getting it into FOF, as some people I think are unclear on this.

I think in the long run I'll want to have 2k7 just so I can see how any changes I make import into the game etc.

[Richards]

What I would like to see is a downloadable version of the program that would output the csv files. I am worried you website will go down at some point, then I am out of luck.

Nogram


A valid concern...

It has been up for several years, and won't be going anywhere soon, but I do understand your point, as I get the same feeling when I see a "web only" version of something.

Awhile back I did post the source code to the utility on the site. I will continue to do this. This way if I ever "disappear", some other enterprising soul can post the utility on his own site. That is still a ways from a downloadable version I realize.

I feel the web only facet is offset by the fact that once generated, the CSV data files ARE downloadable, so while the utility itself is web, the output is of course downloadable.

I guess my advice would be for the time being just go to town and "pregenerate" loads of datafiles in any configuration you might like to see, and save them for later on your computer. (HINT: Output files are cached first in first out so unless someone else comes along and fills up all my diskspace with generated files, you can link to the generated output file)

I'll look into making an offline version in the long run, but right now adding some new scenarios and "knobs" is more appealing to me. However, part of my original motivation for doing the utility was to stay sharp on my PHP (primarily a web language) skills, and refresh some statistics knowledge.

Now, I'll be looking forward to maybe learning some new PHP5 techniques in updating the new version. I guess what I'm getting at is that my motivations are partially selfish :devil: I do appreciate your feedback though.


Richards

[Richards]

As I thought about this today I had quite a few ideas for sliders that would be fun to play with. It would be very interesting to me to create a league where there were more 50-60 rated players than normal, but few to none in the 70's or 80's, then say 1 to 4 superstars (90+) per draft pool.


This shouldn't be too hard to add. For stats geeks: it sounds like a normal curve with a mean in the 50's and with a relatively small standard deviation. IIRC the current utility uses varying shapes of an F distribution, where theres a few terrible players, lots of below average and average players, and then fewer and fewer as the talent level goes up.

Theres lots of modifiers to this basic shape but you probably get the idea. I did try to implement some player "types" where the talent is focused into certain areas, or unbalanced, say the "bull-dozer" tackle with great run blocking, but limited foot speed so mediocre/bad pass blocking.


One "problem" is that once imported into the game, and I think the X-factor affects this of course, is that FOF does a bit of its own randomizing on the files, but the general trends are preserved.

[TheMeat]

Ya I was thinking of the shape of the distribution curve, as I do have a better than layman's understanding of these things, which probably includes almost everyone on these boards or they wouldn't be playing such a math-based game. When I mention to my girlfriend that i'll be sitting down to play some football, she'll say "O, you mean your math game?" she doesn't understand why i would sit down and stare at numbers for hours straight :).

What I'd been thinking about was a normal curve but with no players in the 2nd and 3rd deviations above the mean, but more than normal in the 4th deviation. So the only players above the average would be superstars. I don't know what kind of curve that would be. Like a two-humped curve.

Since thinking about this I've looked through my MP league and there's definitely some lack of talent in some areas (RB) and too much in others (WR) for my liking. Not saying it's not realistic, but just not what I'd like to see, can't wait to be able to customize it a little.

[legendsport]

What I would like to see is a downloadable version of the program that would output the csv files. I am worried you website will go down at some point, then I am out of luck.

Nogram

And.... the website's gone. I'm going to PM Richards. I'm hoping we can get this back, the utility was very nice and I used (hopefully will be able to continue using) it for the Blood 'n Guts league draft classes to smooth out the TCY draft classes and make them more FOF2k7-friendly.

[legendsport]

Fictional Player Factory Web Player Generator (http://www.super-league.org/)

Saved the website and uploaded it myself.

Awesome!! Thanks!

[Nugget699]

Fictional Player Factory Web Player Generator (http://www.super-league.org/)

Saved the website and uploaded it myself.

[legendsport]

Fictional Player Factory Web Player Generator (http://www.super-league.org/)

Saved the website and uploaded it myself.

Well damn. Now the second site is gone too. Anyone else save this somewhere? I'll host the thing myself if someone has it.

[Richards]

Well damn. Now the second site is gone too. Anyone else save this somewhere? I'll host the thing myself if someone has it.

Hi Legendsport

This is way out of the blue as I haven't been here in some time, but I just wanted to post that the Fictional Player Factory is still ALIVE and WELL at its original location posted back in February, 2004, and will continue to be available for the forseeable future.

the original link is: http://greenlight-systems.com/fof/

Because of forum members concerns that the site might go away some time, I did also make the source code available at the end of 2006 at:

http://greenlight-systems.com/fof/fpf.0.7a.src.tar.gz


So, NO WORRIES :) -- the FPF will be around....but if someone wants to run a copy of their own on their own site, let me know I can help you set it up if necessary. I should be checking this forum a little more regularly from now on.

[TheMeat]

Thanks, I think I might use this generator for some testing :)

[Draghetto]

I just found out this wonderful tool but i wanted to ask for a couple of question

#1 This tool was originally developed for 2k4 does it also generate better draft than the game generated for 2k7?

#2 I noticed there hasn't been any activity on this for a long time is there any major concern that has to be addressed yet or it is almost ready and no one is interested in doing those minor tasks?

Thanks