Werewolf XXI - Werewolf goes to Hollywood - Game Over!! Death Eaters win!!

[Schmidty]

As a side note, I'm heading to movies/dinner/etc. in a few here, so there's no guarantee that I'll be back for a vote. GOOOOOOOOO WIZARDS!

So why not vote now?

[Schmidty]

Meaning, why kill someone like Dacman, who didn't appear to have a role, when you know who the duke is? I'm looking for anything.

I have no idea. Maybe it's because I'm so dumb, or because it's obvious that dubb and gramm are DEs.

[Coder]

I think the result of this day's voting will be the turning point of this game. No matter how it ends, people have already started taking sides, and just a look at the voteresults tomorrow will tell us who's on which side.

[dubb93]

I'll offer up an apology to Schmidty, Desnudo, and Coder for my choice of words. Prehaps a more acceptable term would have been if they aren't DE's they are probably the 3 most mis-guided villagers I've seen in a long while.

What I said was not meant as a personal attack. This is a game of werewolf, a game where by definition we are killing people and to start the game players will be lieing the entire way.

Again, I didn't consider them an insult, since it was my impression that everything that is said in thread, stays in thread and isn't considered personal. They are more aimed at the "werewolf" character that game. Again, no offense was meant, and I offer a full apology.

My day job is that of a LPN, so I have people skills and would like to think I have class. But again, in this type of game I think you need to take things in stride and take nothing personal. Everything stays in the thread.

================================================================

Now back onto the game. I've already stated why I think Gramm is the duke, but it bears repeating.

I would not have believed Gramm if he came right out and said "I am the duke."

But the fact remains, he hinted at his role at a time when he was in no danger. He didn't flat out say he was. He was asking what a duke should and could do. That in and of itself is usually a sign of a players role. I've never seen a bad guy "hint" at his role by asking how to play it.

He had his vote on WVU and felt that Sun could protect the seer, so he was just asking about a possible duke. This alone would make me believe him.

Couple it with the fact that no other duke has come out and claimed the role, and I believe it is obvious that he is telling the truth.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe this is a dumb question, but what do the DEs get by killing Dacman last night?

My guess is they took out a random villager that wasn't in the spotlight. They left me and Gramm since one of us were the vote today, and are leaving you guys since either you are the DE's or you will be in the spotlight tomorrow once you find out Gramm was the duke.

If Gram and Dubb weren't DEs, all the DEs would have had to do was kill me in the night. Not only would I be dead, but Gram and/or Dubb would have been toast too. Good point.

If you are innocent, you ever think they left you b/c me and Gramm are innocent too. You kill Gramm today and then we waste a day on you tomorrow.

[dubb93]

most mis-guided villagers I've seen in a long while.

I guess I'll clarify this so as to not hurt anyones feelings. My basis of this is the fact that I know I am innocent and I know Gramm is the duke. And since we have been your guy's top 2 suspects for days, that is the reasoning.

[Raiders Army]

I've already stated why I think Gramm is the duke, but it bears repeating.
My basis of this is the fact that I know I am innocent and I know Gramm is the duke.

These consecutive posts contradict one another. You state that you think he's the duke and then you say you know he's the duke. Which is it? If you know, how do you know?

[SackAttack]

OMG, i really hope i dont suck at DM'ing...this could effectively end my FOFC life if this game is crappy....we still have some notable personalities missing, SackAttack, George W Bush, SirFozzie, MrBug708, pennywisesb, realdeal, and fouts, among others are still not in....

signups will remain open until 12 hours before the start of night 0, regardless of the numbers in post 1

(i'll do my best everyone...preemptive apologies if the game blows)

Sorry 'bout that. I peeked in on this thread when it first got started, but didn't get back to see it go all rock star on us, and none of the WW'ers bothered to tell me. :p

Hope it goes well enough that ya'll can do it again at 30 or whatever and I can drop my hat in!

[Grammaticus]

Sorry for making your eyes bleed. Sort of.

Okay, can someone please argue the other side of this for me? What strategy would the DEs employ that would mean they want to keep the duke alive? Meaning, why kill someone like Dacman, who didn't appear to have a role, when you know who the duke is? I'm looking for anything.
I don't think the Duke role is all that threatening to the bad guys. It allows you to change the lynch vote and that is all. Sure it can be changed to a wolf, but not to anyone you couldn't lynch anyway. There are roles out there that are actually dangerous to the DE players and they would rather try to root out those.

I think the main reason they have not taken me is because of my play. It has not harmed them and has probaby worked in their favor. I can think of another reason too, but will hold off on that.

If you look at who the DEs have been taking, they are the most experienced players. Some may even say the best players. Now look at who is left. Do you see any experienced / good players that you think would have been taken before some that already have? I can think of 2. I can tell you that one of those will more than likely get lynched today.

BTW, all the hub bub of criticizing Dubb's tone (and his use of that tone too) is all part of the game. Getting people worked up and changing focus is something people do as part of their play. Now what does that tell you about a few people??

[Schmidty]

These consecutive posts contradict one another. You state that you think he's the duke and then you say you know he's the duke. Which is it? If you know, how do you know?

I've asked him these types of questions earlier in the game, and all I get is that he "dragged" the Duke thing out of Gramm. Gramm never said, "I'm the Duke", but he made it vaguely clear.

Whenever you question him at all in this game so far, he defends him with emotion and conflicting statements such as the ones you stated.

[Grammaticus]

dols,

for now,

VOTE CODER

I like AEs logic

[Grammaticus]

I meant dola in post 1760, but I'm not gonna edit it.

[Schmidty]

Getting people worked up and changing focus is something people do as part of their play. Now what does that tell you about a few people??

There's a big difference between using "emotion" to deflect attention, and flat out calling someone a moron. Name-calling is for children.

Regardless, dubb apologized. It's all good, and I just want to play the game.

[Schmidty]

Dola.

Grammaticus and his "great supporter", dubb, are voting for different people? Could it be that they're trying to set up the "I didn't vote with that DE" arument when the other is lynched?

[Raiders Army]

I don't think the Duke role is all that threatening to the bad guys. It allows you to change the lynch vote and that is all. Sure it can be changed to a wolf, but not to anyone you couldn't lynch anyway. There are roles out there that are actually dangerous to the DE players and they would rather try to root out those.

On the contrary, the Duke is a wildcard to the wolves. Anything that could possibly change their plans is something to eliminate. If I'm a wolf and I know you're the duke I take you out.

[Raiders Army]

Name-calling is for children.
Ironically, some could say that you're indirectly calling dubb a child. ;)

Okay, I'll leave it alone now...

[Grammaticus]

A few things,

I think there are two death eaters left. I think the use of the invisibility cloak showing two DE meant something. They must have had some form of protection to counter the cloak, but I think the character using the cloak is getting something remedial out of its use. I’m not positive because the rules state the bad guys can choose who makes the kill and can send more than one. That may mean one was protecting the other.

Now regarding validating wizards. It is only my third game, but I can tell you I learned in the last game that validating and making a circle of trust faster than the bad guys can eliminate you tilted the tables quickly. As a Demon in that game, when everyone started revealing there roles and special abilities, it became clearer who was telling the truth and who was lying. As Demons in that game we had to make up roles and that is when you start making mistakes that can’t be covered long term. Kinda how Neon caught SnDvl in this game.

[Grammaticus]

There's a big difference between using "emotion" to deflect attention, and flat out calling someone a moron. Name-calling is for children.

Regardless, dubb apologized. It's all good, and I just want to play the game.
What I am telling everyone is that Dubb and you Schmidty are both playing a game with your insult and apology crapola. I could care less whether you accept his apology or not :)

[Grammaticus]

On the contrary, the Duke is a wildcard to the wolves. Anything that could possibly change their plans is something to eliminate. If I'm a wolf and I know you're the duke I take you out.
I agree it is a wildcard, but there are much more pressing concerns for the DEs.

I am far less likely a player that will logically catch them and pose a smaller threat than others. I'm sure my time will come and of course their strategy may change.

[Grammaticus]

Help me out here a little bit. Of those who are left in the game, who is generally considered to be the best players? Who usually offers all kinds of good logic on whe the baddies are and why? Are they doing that this game or not? Does that change in play mean something?

[Desnudo]

I don't think the Duke role is all that threatening to the bad guys. It allows you to change the lynch vote and that is all. Sure it can be changed to a wolf, but not to anyone you couldn't lynch anyway. There are roles out there that are actually dangerous to the DE players and they would rather try to root out those.

I think the main reason they have not taken me is because of my play. It has not harmed them and has probaby worked in their favor. I can think of another reason too, but will hold off on that.

If you look at who the DEs have been taking, they are the most experienced players. Some may even say the best players. Now look at who is left. Do you see any experienced / good players that you think would have been taken before some that already have? I can think of 2. I can tell you that one of those will more than likely get lynched today.

BTW, all the hub bub of criticizing Dubb's tone (and his use of that tone too) is all part of the game. Getting people worked up and changing focus is something people do as part of their play. Now what does that tell you about a few people??

Most experienced players, like Alan T?

[Grammaticus]

Most experienced players, like Alan T?
We lynched AlanT, the DEs did not take him in the night.

[Grammaticus]

We lynched AlanT, the DEs did not take him in the night.
Dola,

It was also probably the dumbest lynch we have made in the game so far.

[Grammaticus]

Here is how I have the vote so far:

Gramm – RA, Lathum, Taz, Coder
Coder – AE, Gramm
Schmidty – Dubb

[Desnudo]

Oh yes, my bad. Well the obvious answer to your question about normally involved players and helpfulness levels would be Dubb. Of course if they were pursuing this strategy of taking out experienced players, wouldn't he be first on the list?

[Grammaticus]

Oh yes, my bad. Well the obvious answer to your question about normally involved players and helpfulness levels would be Dubb. Of course if they were pursuing this strategy of taking out experienced players, wouldn't he be first on the list?
Yep, and who else would stand out?

[Desnudo]

Yep, and who else would stand out?

I don't know, I haven't played one of these in ages. Pass maybe? Kingfc?

[dubb93]

Oh yes, my bad. Well the obvious answer to your question about normally involved players and helpfulness levels would be Dubb. Of course if they were pursuing this strategy of taking out experienced players, wouldn't he be first on the list?

It would be a good strat., but I've been on the suspect list of everyone since the 1st damn day. They obviously aren't going after anyone on peoples suspect lists.

As for you calling me an analyzer, my normal play is far from that. That is what Hoops is, with his pages of notes. I on the other hand take no notes. I tend to call people out, be "mean" for lack of a better term and ploy my way though people untill I am convinced they are good.

I find holes in peoples logic. That is a big part of my play. Also, if people can't see the obvious(in this case, Gramm being the duke), that makes them suspect to me.

[dubb93]

Yep, and who else would stand out?

King, AE, Schmidty

[Grammaticus]

I don't know, I haven't played one of these in ages. Pass maybe? Kingfc?
How about Schmidty? Would it have made more sense to remove Schmidty thatn dacman or CW? I'm not sure what to think of Pass. He has not been voting or posting. What does that mean? I really don't know.

[Desnudo]

We all acknowledge that Gramm is likely the duke. Where the split lies is what to do with that information.

What do you suggest we do?

[dubb93]

We all acknowledge that Gramm is likely the duke. Where the split lies is what to do with that information.

What do you suggest we do?

It is never a good idea to knowly lynch a villager, even if he can save himself with a power. That is a power that could be useful down the road.

[Coder]

We all acknowledge that Gramm is likely the duke. Where the split lies is what to do with that information.

What do you suggest we do?

if we lynch Gram, he's the duke, turns around and lynches me.. where do the Wizards stand? Because the result will be that we've revealed two wizards and completely tossed the potential ideas we've had so far into the river.

[Poli]

Help me out here a little bit. Of those who are left in the game, who is generally considered to be the best players? Who usually offers all kinds of good logic on whe the baddies are and why? Are they doing that this game or not? Does that change in play mean something?
I can tell you my experience with players...I don't know if I can offer any wisdom as to their style of play.

I'm active in other games and have been in this one. I've been fairly weak in my deciphering I'd guess in my past games. I've rarely been killed by the wolves.

Lathum, Pass, Raiders, Schmidty, Taz, king, dubb, and RPI have played often (I think). Of these, I got snowed incredibly once by Schmidty on Day 1 of the Spawn game. He was the Queen Spawn, IIRC. I had the chance to eliminate him on Day 1, and I screwed that up.

Desnudo, Coder, KWhit, Jeeber, WVU, Superman, and you are left. Of these, I know Jeeber and Superman have played before. I don't recall desnudo and kwhit immediately playing in the past. WVU and you have been playing, but just recently, IIRC.

[Poli]

if we lynch Gram, he's the duke, turns around and lynches me.. where do the Wizards stand? Because the result will be that we've revealed two wizards and completely tossed the potential ideas we've had so far into the river.
I still don't believe you.

[Coder]

I still don't believe you.

:eek:

:D

[dacman]

fuzzy pink bunny slippers?!

VOTE SALDANA

[Grammaticus]

I can tell you my experience with players...I don't know if I can offer any wisdom as to their style of play.

I'm active in other games and have been in this one. I've been fairly weak in my deciphering I'd guess in my past games. I've rarely been killed by the wolves.

Lathum, Pass, Raiders, Schmidty, Taz, king, dubb, and RPI have played often (I think). Of these, I got snowed incredibly once by Schmidty on Day 1 of the Spawn game. He was the Queen Spawn, IIRC. I had the chance to eliminate him on Day 1, and I screwed that up.

Desnudo, Coder, KWhit, Jeeber, WVU, Superman, and you are left. Of these, I know Jeeber and Superman have played before. I don't recall desnudo and kwhit immediately playing in the past. WVU and you have been playing, but just recently, IIRC.
Well, from my experience and listening to the comments of others, I would guess to two most likely to be feared by the wolves are

Dubb
Schmidty

Then I would guess Ardent, King, RPI. But really it starts to get foggy for me. I did not know Lathum played a lot. I say RPI because he hosted a game, but that is the only reason.

I have concerns over the absence of Pass and the near invisibility of Taz and King.

Then I voted for Coder because of the uncovered lie. I think you have to lynch bacause of the lie. It just raises the probability of being a wolf. Definately not a given. I waver in my thought only due to this being his first game. Would you make someone a wolf in their first game? Probably, with all the help you would get from others.

Then the Dubb/Scmidty thing is next. They logically should not be here.

Third, put King and Taz on the hot seat and see what happens.

That is the path I would go down at this point. There is still a lot of game left and we should not get too discouraged that we have not found another DE yet. I mean, we are doing very well for this point in the game (I think).

[Coder]

Thinking about it (and without consulting my Excel-sheet), this could be a pretty decent setup.. watch for dubb to vote for me closer to the deadline. Hmm.. Ardent.. I'm taking you off my trusted list :).

[Grammaticus]

Dola,

I will say that I see Pass reading the thread each day, like he is right now. So I don't buy lack of input and/or voting due to being busy. People who do not vote have to be dealt with. It kills the wizards.

Who else has not been voting?

[Desnudo]

Hell, I don't know. I'm probably going to eenie meenie minie moe this vote.

[Poli]

Thinking about it (and without consulting my Excel-sheet), this could be a pretty decent setup.. watch for dubb to vote for me closer to the deadline. Hmm.. Ardent.. I'm taking you off my trusted list :).I've been expecting that all day.

[Coder]

Dola,

I will say that I see Pass reading the thread each day, like he is right now. So I don't buy lack of input and/or voting due to being busy. People who do not vote have to be dealt with. It kills the wizards.

Who else has not been voting?

This was incorrect (I think I said he hadn't voted). I re-checked and he was listed under both Pass and Passacaglia.. Pass had votes every day except day one.

[Poli]

Dola,

I will say that I see Pass reading the thread each day, like he is right now. So I don't buy lack of input and/or voting due to being busy. People who do not vote have to be dealt with. It kills the wizards.

Who else has not been voting?Kwhit and WVU have missed votes. Kwhit was traveling according to a post earlier in here.

[Coder]

I have a question that I'd like a werewolf veteran not in the game anymore to answer (if they're still reading). Preferrably a known wizard (are they allowed to?).

What do the deatheaters have to gain by having Gram revealed as the duke? I mean, they already know he's not a deatheater. His only power is that he can overturn his own lynching, right? He can't defend himself against an assassination?

[Grammaticus]

This was incorrect (I think I said he hadn't voted). I re-checked and he was listed under both Pass and Passacaglia.. Pass had votes every day except day one.
That makes more sense then. I thought everyone was voting after the first day. If someone is tracking, can you let us know who has not voted and when? That could be helpful.

[Grammaticus]

I have a question that I'd like a werewolf veteran not in the game anymore to answer (if they're still reading). Preferrably a known wizard (are they allowed to?).

What do the deatheaters have to gain by having Gram revealed as the duke? I mean, they already know he's not a deatheater. His only power is that he can overturn his own lynching, right? He can't defend himself against an assassination?
Dead wizards cannot give meaningful input, so they can't answer that. The Duke can traditionally change any lynch vote, not just the ones where he is voted for a lynch.

[Desnudo]

I have a question that I'd like a werewolf veteran not in the game anymore to answer (if they're still reading). Preferrably a known wizard (are they allowed to?).

What do the deatheaters have to gain by having Gram revealed as the duke? I mean, they already know he's not a deatheater. His only power is that he can overturn his own lynching, right? He can't defend himself against an assassination?

He can overturn any lynching. Can't defend against assassination.

"Ministry of Magic Official – as a member of the ministry, you have the ability to change the outcome of the days lynch vote. If the person you change the vote to is in the service of the Dark Lord, you retain this power, however if you change the vote to an innocent, you will be relieved of office. This ability is used in secret by sending an owl to the DM at any point during the day cycle, or within 15 minutes after the voting deadline. However, if you make the wrong choice, your role is revealed."

[Coder]

That makes more sense then. I thought everyone was voting after the first day. If someone is tracking, can you let us know who has not voted and when? That could be helpful.

According to my sheet (now that I've changed all Passacaglia to Pass so he shows up in the filter :P), everyone has voted, though Jesse didn't vote day 4 (he voted day 5).

[Coder]

I have about half an hour to an hour before I'm going to sleep, but I don't think I'll change my vote. I think Gram needs to be tested. Now is as good as any time. I've been wrong just about every day so far so don't take my word that he's a DE.

[Coder]

He can overturn any lynching. Can't defend against assassination.

"Ministry of Magic Official – as a member of the ministry, you have the ability to change the outcome of the days lynch vote. If the person you change the vote to is in the service of the Dark Lord, you retain this power, however if you change the vote to an innocent, you will be relieved of office. This ability is used in secret by sending an owl to the DM at any point during the day cycle, or within 15 minutes after the voting deadline. However, if you make the wrong choice, your role is revealed."

So basically... he'll only get revealed if the vote is for him to be lynched since he'll turn it away from himself... since even if he is the duke and we get a reversal on the lynching, we'll at least suspect he is the duke (as will the deatheaters).

However, the deatheaters already know he's a wizard if he's not a deatheater.. judging by the way he's been hinting that he is the duke, he's basically got nothing to lose by having the role revealed.. and just like everyone's been saying, since he's been said to be the duke for so long, why isn't he killed yet?

Question remains though.. if he is NOT the duke, then who is??!

[Desnudo]

I've been trying to think through what my strategy would be if I were one of the remaining DEs. Losing two DEs in the first two votes is a huge loss. What would my strategy be if I were one the remaining 2-4? I would clam up and see if the wizards would't do our job for us. Despite everyone saying, oh so-and-so is very quiet, it seems inevitable that people that speaking up are the ones that draw attention. Human nature I suppose.

Also, talking and speculating creates a huge risk that you'll say something that later makes it obvious that you are a DE. I'm not guaranteeing that staying quiet is the strategy they are using, but it makes sense.

[Desnudo]

So basically... he'll only get revealed if the vote is for him to be lynched since he'll turn it away from himself... since even if he is the duke and we get a reversal on the lynching, we'll at least suspect he is the duke (as will the deatheaters).

However, the deatheaters already know he's a wizard if he's not a deatheater.. judging by the way he's been hinting that he is the duke, he's basically got nothing to lose by having the role revealed.. and just like everyone's been saying, since he's been said to be the duke for so long, why isn't he killed yet?

Question remains though.. if he is NOT the duke, then who is??!

One of the dead guys. Anyone else would have changed the last vote to Gramm if they were the duke.

[Coder]

One of the dead guys. Anyone else would have changed the last vote to Gramm if they were the duke.

But wouldn't we be told when they were dead that they had that role?

[Desnudo]

Yes, very likely.

[Grammaticus]

Stop wasting time talking about me being the duke. I plan on changing the vote to Schmidty to get the ball rolling on the experienced player theory. Unless someone gives me something better to go on.

Now I am going to step out for a while to go for a run. I'll check back later.

[Desnudo]

What else should we waste time on? No one else is posting.

[Coder]

What else should we waste time on? No one else is posting.

Sven-Goran Eriksson? Now there's a werewolf :D

[Poli]

I've posted what I know and what I've read. I'm on empty.

[Desnudo]

I think England manager is one of the most thankless jobs in the sports world. Even if they win the WC, people will call for his head for not winning with enough panache.

[Coder]

Well you heard about what came out yesterday, didn't you? About the sheiks and Beckham and everything.

[Desnudo]

Yes, I read an article about it. Why you would randomly spout off to someone you barely know is mystifying.

[JeeberD]

Interesting post by AE, very interesting. Also an interesting theory by Desnudo about the DEs remaining silent. I could see them doing that, trying to skate by without drawing attention to themselves...especially the silent guys who seem to be reading the thread fairly often.

Oh, and in regards to...


Desnudo, Coder, KWhit, Jeeber, WVU, Superman, and you are left. Of these, I know Jeeber and Superman have played before. I don't recall desnudo and kwhit immediately playing in the past. WVU and you have been playing, but just recently, IIRC.

...I remember KWhit playing in at least one game before. He was in the first one I played, I think.

[Coder]

ok, I've done the dishes, eaten an orange and brushed my teeth. Time to go to bed. would have been fun to see a bit more on how the votes turn out but I guess I'll see them when I wake up tomorrow.

[Lathum]

Stop wasting time talking about me being the duke. I plan on changing the vote to Schmidty to get the ball rolling on the experienced player theory. Unless someone gives me something better to go on.

Now I am going to step out for a while to go for a run. I'll check back later.
GRAM. THIS IS IMPORTANT

do you plan on changing your personal vote to schmity or the lynch vote to schmity?

[Lathum]

unvote gram

vote coder

[Coder]

Didn't see your previous vote for Gram Lathum... here's my tally so far.


Name Vote Tally
Raiders Vote Grammatic Grammaticus (1)
Ardent Vote Coder Grammaticus (1), Coder (1)
Taz Vote Grammaticus Grammaticus (2), Coder (1)
dubb Vote Schmidty Grammaticus (2), Coder (1), Schmidty (1)
Coder Vote Grammaticus Grammaticus (3), Coder (1), Schmidty (1)
Grammaticus Vote Coder Grammaticus (3), Coder (2), Schmidty (1)
Lathum Vote Coder Grammaticus (3), Coder (3), Schmidty (1)

[Coder]

I'll wait about 20 minutes more, then I really have to sleep (1 a.m. then)

[RPI-Fan]

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

I agree that he'd have been offed if he really were the duke. Since he hasn't been killed, I think it's because he's lying and is a DE.

[Schmidty]

GRAM. THIS IS IMPORTANT

do you plan on changing your personal vote to schmity or the lynch vote to schmity?

:confused:

[Schmidty]

Vote Grammaticus

[Lathum]

Vote Grammaticus
why would you vote for the guy who claims to be the duke and said he is going to switch the vote to you?

[Grammaticus]

GRAM. THIS IS IMPORTANT

do you plan on changing your personal vote to schmity or the lynch vote to schmity?
If I get the most lynch votes, I'm changing the outcome to Scmidty.

[JeeberD]

Sounds like Schmidty is as good as dead and that my vote won't make a bit of difference. Therefore, I'm gonna try to flush one of the quiet guys out...

Vote Pass

[Schmidty]

Sounds like Schmidty is as good as dead and that my vote won't make a bit of difference. Therefore, I'm gonna try to flush one of the quiet guys out...

Vote Pass

How am I as good as dead? This is confusing.

[JeeberD]

Dola-

OK, so it sounds like Schmidty might not be dead after all. I'll let my vote stand for now but I'll have to think about it for a while...

[JeeberD]

How am I as good as dead? This is confusing.

I thought that Gramm was going to change the lynch to you no matter what, but now it sounds like he's only going to do it if the lynch vote goes towards him...

[Coder]

If I get the most lynch votes, I'm changing the outcome to Scmidty.

Why vote different here than who you plan on lynching in case you getting lynched?

[Schmidty]

why would you vote for the guy who claims to be the duke and said he is going to switch the vote to you?

Dude. Read my posts. Have you done ANY read-throughs of this game? I've explained my reasonong over and over and over. If you haven't read through yet, then I just don't know what to tell you.

If I do happen to die today, at least you all should know who the DEs are.

[Schmidty]

I thought that Gramm was going to change the lynch to you no matter what, but now it sounds like he's only going to do it if the lynch vote goes towards him...

I hope he does do that. Then we'll know that Dubb and perhaps Lathum are DEs.

[Lathum]

Sounds like Schmidty is as good as dead and that my vote won't make a bit of difference. Therefore, I'm gonna try to flush one of the quiet guys out...

Vote Pass
Jeebs, that is a horrible waste of a vote that makes you look terrible. I think you should read AE's analyisis and make a vote that counts.

Gram, I don't pose any special powers, but if you are the duke I think you need to go with coder. Being an expierienced player and reading through everything I don't think Schmity is a DE.

[Grammaticus]

Sounds like Schmidty is as good as dead and that my vote won't make a bit of difference. Therefore, I'm gonna try to flush one of the quiet guys out...

Vote Pass
This statement is bull, the vote is 5 to 3 and not everyone has voted. Your vote counts the most right now.

[Lathum]

Dude. Read my posts. Have you done ANY read-throughs of this game? I've explained my reasonong over and over and over. If you haven't read through yet, then I just don't know what to tell you.

If I do happen to die today, at least you all should know who the DEs are.
I'm trying to help you

asshat :D

[JeeberD]

Jeebs, that is a horrible waste of a vote that makes you look terrible. I think you should read AE's analyisis and make a vote that counts.


Like I said in my next post, I mis-read what Gramm was saying. I'm certainly re-thinking my vote right now...

[Schmidty]

I'm trying to help you

asshat :D

And damnit, I'm trying to help you!!!! :)

[Coder]

how the hell am I going to be able to go to sleep when it's this exciting!?

[Schmidty]

Like I said in my next post, I mis-read what Gramm was saying. I'm certainly re-thinking my vote right now...

Have you read through the evidence on Gramm and Dubb? It's been a major discussion for like 3-4 days now. If you haven't, I recommend you do.

[dubb93]

I hope he does do that. Then we'll know that Dubb and perhaps Lathum are DEs.

Yes, because if somehow you turn out to be a wizard it makes me a DE. Afterall, there is overwhelming proof, such as the fact I've voted 2 DE's, including changing late to help condemn Sun.

Combine that evidence against me with the fact that I've come right out and said there is no reason to try to lynch a villager just to be lynching a villager(Gramm). We are best off taking shots elsewhere. That is a concept you can't see to grasp.

All of that said, it is obvious that I'm a DE :rolleyes: , pick someone else to set up Schmidty.

[Schmidty]

how the hell am I going to be able to go to sleep when it's this exciting!?

Listen to a Larry Brown press conference. ;)

[Grammaticus]

Jeebs, that is a horrible waste of a vote that makes you look terrible. I think you should read AE's analyisis and make a vote that counts.

Gram, I don't pose any special powers, but if you are the duke I think you need to go with coder. Being an expierienced player and reading through everything I don't think Schmity is a DE.
I voted for Coder because I think it is a logical lynch based on the lie that AE pointed out. So, my wizard vote goes there to knock that out first. But, if the group does not go there, I am going to use my office to do the one thing it is good for, test a theory without having to convince everyone else to go there. The Scmid/Dubb theory is a much more pivotal direction, so that is where I will go with a forced lynch.

[Lathum]

:) And damnit, I'm trying to help you!!!! :)

[Coder]

I voted for Coder because I think it is a logical lynch based on the lie that AE pointed out. So, my wizard vote goes there to knock that out first. But, if the group does not go there, I am going to use my office to do the one thing it is good for, test a theory without having to convince everyone else to go there. The Scmid/Dubb theory is a much more pivotal direction, so that is where I will go with a forced lynch.

So if you were a duke, and Schmidty is a wizard, where does that scenario take you? Does that help you make voting decisions in the future, cause it would completely throw me off the track.

Also, if you are the duke, make that change, and Schmidty is a deatheater.. I will officially ask for SkyDog to give the title: Dumbest Werewolf Player Evah - Bar None.

Ooops.. I shouldn't be promising things like that :).

[JeeberD]

Alright, after re-reading AE's post I'm going to change my vote.

Unvote Pass

Vote Coder

I'm convinced that Gramm is who he says he is. And I also don't get the feeling that Schmidty is a DE, so I don't want to see him die at Gramm's hand.

Time to cook dinner, I'm off for a while...

[Grammaticus]

I wish I knew more about Scmidty's play style. But I am going on what I have heard. Some of you have said you don't think he is playing this one as usual. He as a rep as being sneaky and I can't see how the DEs would leave him in the game based on the risk he would pose to them. Just does not seem to make sense.

[RPI-Fan]

UNVOTE GRAMMATICUS

Going to think about it for a bit...

[Coder]

Cool :)

My first showdown.

If I go down tonight, I guess the logical choice tomorrow will be Ardent :).

[Coder]

Kind of funny how as soon as someone starts tracking statistics for votes they're targets :). First cronin, now me.

[Schmidty]

If I go down tonight, I guess the logical choice tomorrow will be Ardent :).

It's like people are bound and determined to not look at the Dubb/Grammaticus thing.

[Grammaticus]

So if you were a duke, and Schmidty is a wizard, where does that scenario take you? Does that help you make voting decisions in the future, cause it would completely throw me off the track.


Then I would look at Dubb and the other palyers mentioned

Also, if you are the duke, make that change, and Schmidty is a deatheater

Then we would get a DE and that would be good.

[Coder]

Final bed time tally:


Raiders Vote Grammaticus Grammaticus (1)
Ardent Vote Coder Grammaticus (1), Coder (1)
Taz Vote Grammaticus Grammaticus (2), Coder (1)
dubb Vote Schmidty Grammaticus (2), Coder (1), Schmidty (1)
Coder Vote Grammaticus Grammaticus (3), Coder (1), Schmidty (1)
Gram Vote Coder Grammaticus (3), Coder (2), Schmidty (1)
Lathum Vote Coder Grammaticus (3), Coder (3), Schmidty (1)
RPI Vote Grammaticus Grammaticus (4), Coder (3), Schmidty (1)
Schmidty Vote Grammaticus Grammaticus (5), Coder (3), Schmidty (1)
JeeberD Vote Pass Grammaticus (5), Coder (3), Schmidty (1), Pass (1)
JeeberD Unvote Pass Grammaticus (5), Coder (3), Schmidty (1)
JeeberD Vote Coder Grammaticus (5), Coder (4), Schmidty (1)
RPI Unvote Grammaticus Grammaticus (4), Coder (4), Schmidty (1)

[Raiders Army]

This is somewhat frustrating because most people don't say shit. Grammaticus hasn't said anything until his ass was really on the line. Same with Coder.

Jesse still hasn't said anything of consequence, so I'm leaning towards him, Jeeber, Lathum, Pass, or king tomorrow (if I'm alive).

[Coder]

After 13 vote-actions, this is what I have (which is obvious if you look at the above, but I've been collecting these to see vote-trends)

I could post all votes in one long so that anyone could copy/past into Excel, but it might be a tad too long (at 222 lines right now).

If you want I could upload it to my website for download.


Raiders Vote Grammaticus Day 6 1 13
Ardent Vote Coder Day 6 2 13
Taz Vote Grammaticus Day 6 3 13
dubb Vote Schmidty Day 6 4 13
Coder Vote Grammaticus Day 6 5 13
Grammaticus Vote Coder Day 6 6 13
Lathum Vote Coder Day 6 7 13
RPI Vote Grammaticus Day 6 8 13
SchmidtyVote Grammaticus Day 6 9 13
JeeberD Vote Pass Day 6 10 13
JeeberD Unvote Pass Day 6 11 13
JeeberD Vote Coder Day 6 12 13
RPI Unvote Grammaticus Day 6 13 13

[Coder]

This is somewhat frustrating because most people don't say shit. Grammaticus hasn't said anything until his ass was really on the line. Same with Coder.

Jesse still hasn't said anything of consequence, so I'm leaning towards him, Jeeber, Lathum, Pass, or king tomorrow (if I'm alive).

That's not really true, I've been pretty active days 4-5-6 (today)

[Schmidty]

Jesse still hasn't said anything of consequence, so I'm leaning towards him, Jeeber, Lathum, Pass, or king tomorrow (if I'm alive).

Very true. If any of those guys are DEs, they are sitting there inconspicuously laughing their asses off.

[Raiders Army]

I think at least one is a DE. Sorry Code, just going from memory there.

[Coder]

I think at least one is a DE. Sorry Code, just going from memory there.

Considering I have about 100 posts since this thing started, and only had 320 a week ago, I must have been posting somewhere at least :).

[Raiders Army]

I also don't understand what Grammaticus' anger towards Schmidty is. In my mind, this clears Grammaticus. Why wouldn't he want that unless he's a wolf?

[Lathum]

This is somewhat frustrating because most people don't say shit. Grammaticus hasn't said anything until his ass was really on the line. Same with Coder.

Jesse still hasn't said anything of consequence, so I'm leaning towards him, Jeeber, Lathum, Pass, or king tomorrow (if I'm alive).
why would you even think of me?

[Coder]

I also don't understand what Grammaticus' anger towards Schmidty is. In my mind, this clears Grammaticus. Why wouldn't he want that unless he's a wolf?

I'm not sure I follow your line of thought here? Why wouldn't he want what?

I have some doubts about Gram at the moment, mainly due to what Des said earlier.. if Gram is lying, why didn't the real duke reverse the lynching of path12 and put Gram there instead?

Hmmm..

Unless of course the real duke voted for path hoping to save that card until later.

[Coffee Warlord]

The yak flies at midnight.

[Coder]

The yak flies at midnight.

I think the dead spirits are trying to say something!

[Raiders Army]

why would you even think of me?
You've been quiet, which is somewhat uncharacteristic.

[Raiders Army]

I'm not sure I follow your line of thought here? Why wouldn't he want what?

I have some doubts about Gram at the moment, mainly due to what Des said earlier.. if Gram is lying, why didn't the real duke reverse the lynching of path12 and put Gram there instead?

Hmmm..

Unless of course the real duke voted for path hoping to save that card until later.
If Grammaticus is who he says he is, he'll be cleared when he proves he's the duke. In other words, he's not a DE and we can trust him.

[Coder]

I think I caught a Death Eater in a lie. I nearly posted the following post yesterday morning, but as I continued to read and write I began to worry I might be killed during the night actions as a result. So, I saved the information for today.

This doesn't really make sense.. if you had posted it then, and gotten killed, it wouldn't have made any difference than if you posted it today. No matter when it's posted, it's a well collected source of items pointing towards me. If you wanted to point fingers it wouldn't have mattered when you posted.

I don't think that the werewolves kill for revenge.. if you had been killed during the night, people might have pointed towards me, but I don't see why the werewolves would go after you based on that.

[Coder]

Ok, this is really it.. I'm going to bed.

I still think that lynching Gram is the best thing to do, even if he is the Duke.. it's a win win situation. Obviously Gram can't be killed by a lynching if he's the duke and obviously he'll get killed by the lynching if he's a werewolf.

Good night, and thanks for having me! :D

[Grammaticus]

This is somewhat frustrating because most people don't say shit. Grammaticus hasn't said anything until his ass was really on the line. Same with Coder.

Jesse still hasn't said anything of consequence, so I'm leaning towards him, Jeeber, Lathum, Pass, or king tomorrow (if I'm alive).
That is funny because I was thinking RA has not really said a whole lot this game. That is, compared to past games.

Basically I told you what you needed to know about me real early in the game.

[Grammaticus]

I'm thinking I should change the vote to Schmidty anyway. I would not be surprised if Schmidty and Dubb both turn out to be DE.

I find it hard to believe that Schmidty thinks I'm faking the role. It would not pay for a wolf to fake that role, when the real duke would just come forward and then I would be in a showdown that would out me no matter what. It just does not make sense that Schmidty thinks I'm a DE faking it.

[Desnudo]

What time is the deadline?

[Grammaticus]

What time is the deadline?
I think 9:30pm so in about an hour and twenty minutes.

[RPI-Fan]

I'm voting for Gram not because I think he's a DE, but because it's a win-win situation.

Either we get a DE outright, or we get a second crack at a DE and go a long way towards un-muddying the waters.

VOTE GRAMMATICUS

[Lathum]

You've been quiet, which is somewhat uncharacteristic.
how have i been quiet?

[Raiders Army]

That is funny because I was thinking RA has not really said a whole lot this game. That is, compared to past games.

Basically I told you what you needed to know about me real early in the game.
Actually I don't say a lot when I'm a simple villager, which I have been (thankfully) the past few games. I got tired of being the wolf. I think I had been a wolf something like five consecutive games. The first few times it was fun, but then it began to wear on me. When you're a wolf, you have to be available at all times for strategy purposes. The only advantage you have over the villagers is that you can communicate amongst yourselves so you have to leverage that to the best of your ability.

I enjoy being a villager since I don't have any real "obligation" to being online all of the time. :)

[Desnudo]

I just re-read AE's post on Coder. I'm not sure how solid the argument is, since it could just be a typo, but it's more solid than anything else we have really. But, Coder has played awfully loose, which indicates to me he's nothing more than a wizard.

My concern about voting Gramm is that if he dukes Schmidty and Schmidty is human, then how much have we learned?

[Lathum]

I just re-read AE's post on Coder. I'm not sure how solid the argument is, since it could just be a typo, but it's more solid than anything else we have really. But, Coder has played awfully loose, which indicates to me he's nothing more than a wizard.

My concern about voting Gramm is that if he dukes Schmidty and Schmidty is human, then how much have we learned?
nothing, which is why I switched my vote

[Raiders Army]

how have i been quiet?
Well, here are your last 10 posts in this thread, including this one (excluding the most recent one after you asked this question which doesn't amount to anything). Half of them are questions. And you have contributed how???

#1how have i been quiet?

#2why would you even think of me?

#3:)

#4I'm trying to help you
asshat :D

#5Jeebs, that is a horrible waste of a vote that makes you look terrible. I think you should read AE's analyisis and make a vote that counts.

#6Gram, I don't pose any special powers, but if you are the duke I think you need to go with coder. Being an expierienced player and reading through everything I don't think Schmity is a DE.

#7why would you vote for the guy who claims to be the duke and said he is going to switch the vote to you?

#8unvote gram
vote coder

#9GRAM. THIS IS IMPORTANT
do you plan on changing your personal vote to schmity or the lynch vote to schmity?

#10vote gramm

I may be out most of the day and we don't have much to go by other then vote patterns.

#11sorry path, I was wrong but it seemed like you had some special powers or at least some special artifacts, why didn't he tell us that before the mob began?

[Raiders Army]

pwned.

[Desnudo]

All right, to me this is a watershed vote. I think that unless something got gummed up somewhere, Gramm is definitely who he says he is, the minister of magic, or whatever it is. Lord knows why he is still alive, and that's a question that may come back to haunt me. I think it would be a waste to duke Schmidty at this point, and losing the power of the duke would suck.

I have a sinking feeling about poor coder, but I think it might at least a little info:

Vote Coder

[Grammaticus]

Actually I don't say a lot when I'm a simple villager, which I have been (thankfully) the past few games. I got tired of being the wolf. I think I had been a wolf something like five consecutive games. The first few times it was fun, but then it began to wear on me. When you're a wolf, you have to be available at all times for strategy purposes. The only advantage you have over the villagers is that you can communicate amongst yourselves so you have to leverage that to the best of your ability.

I enjoy being a villager since I don't have any real "obligation" to being online all of the time. :)
The first game I played in, you were a villager (2 games ago) and you talked a lot, I mean a lot. That was the game where Dubb was the turncoat villager and layed a wammy on us, which completely turned you, me and Blade around and the wolves won that one.

So you do talk a lot as a villager or have in the past.....

[Raiders Army]

The first game I played in, you were a villager (2 games ago) and you talked a lot, I mean a lot. That was the game where Dubb was the turncoat villager and layed a wammy on us, which completely turned you, me and Blade around and the wolves won that one.

So you do talk a lot as a villager or have in the past.....
sez you

[Grammaticus]

sez you
So you don't think you talked a lot in that game?

[Lathum]

how about being the first one to call out sndvls?

and we will hit a point where we will look your list of my last ten posts and some of them will make sense.

[saldana]

1. please stop editing your posts, if you screwed up something, Dola it, dont edit

2. please, cant we all just get along, this is a game, and as RA said earlier, he and i did mix it up at one point in the past, i think what we need to remember is that we are all still just playing a game on an internet message board. Dubb, thanks for apologizing.

3. the deadline is in 50 minutes.

[Grammaticus]

Here is how I have the vote so far:

Gramm -(4)– RA, Taz, Coder, Schmidty, RPI
Coder – (4)- AE, Gramm, Lathum, Jeeber, Desnudo
Schmidty –(1)- Dubb

[Grammaticus]

how about being the first one to call out sndvls?

and we will hit a point where we will look your list of my last ten posts and some of them will make sense.
I thought Neon was the first one to call out Sun on his lie.

[Grammaticus]

dola, that is five votes apiece not four.
Here is how I have the vote so far:

Gramm -(5)– RA, Taz, Coder, Schmidty, RPI
Coder – (5)- AE, Gramm, Lathum, Jeeber, Desnudo
Schmidty –(1)- Dubb

[Lathum]

I thought Neon was the first one to call out Sun on his lie.
nope. look back, it was me

[saldana]

current votes

Gram - 5 - RA, raz, coder, Schmidty, RPI**
Coder - 5 -AE, Gram, Lathum, Jeeber, Desnudo
Schmidty - 1 -dubb

**--the non magical tiebreak is on gram

[Blade6119]

wait a tick, rpi and i were in a game together where there was a fight, and neither of us were involved....sweet jesus, whats this world coming too!!!!

[Grammaticus]

Hmmm, what would Blade do if he was the Ministry of Magic Official?

[RPI-Fan]

wait a tick, rpi and i were in a game together where there was a fight, and neither of us were involved....sweet jesus, whats this world coming too!!!!

??

[Lathum]

I thought Neon was the first one to call out Sun on his lie.
start at post #597

[Blade6119]

Hmmm, what would Blade do if he was the Ministry of Magic Official?
Ok, i apologize for duking you last game...wait, you were a bad guy...i mean HAHAHAHAHAHA ;)

Dont reason by me, im bat shit crazy...trying to emulate me will get you in a whole lot of trouble as everyone used to hate my play style until i got better and it started rooting out wolves...emulate someone that wasnt clost to getting kicked out of 2 or 3 games when he first started for fighting

[Grammaticus]

start at post #597
Don't worry, I'm not lynching you. As it stands, it is a tie, I win the lynch vote and change it to Schmidty. I really hope this pans out.

Of course there are votes still out there.

[Blade6119]

??
Maybe im mistaken, i thought it was you who i argued with HEAVILY a few games back...i apologize, it must have been someone else...who was it..... :( I hate forgetting fueds

[Raiders Army]

So you don't think you talked a lot in that game?
Nope. Not compared to when I was a wolf. I talk a bit in every game. Post count, of course. Freebie to no editing. :)

[Raiders Army]

Don't worry, I'm not lynching you. As it stands, it is a tie, I win the lynch vote and change it to Schmidty. I really hope this pans out.

Of course there are votes still out there.
But why Scmidty? Did I miss it somewhere? If it's a revenge vote for starting on you, I think that's a really crappy thing.

*thinks*

Then again, it would be a way of eliminating the Duke without having to kill him. That would be a pretty good strategy.

[Grammaticus]

Lathum, why do you think Schmidty is a wizard?

[Grammaticus]

Nope. Not compared to when I was a wolf. I talk a bit in every game. Post count, of course. Freebie to no editing. :)
Makes me a little suscpicious of you, because in that game you were posting as much as Blade. Now it may have had something to do with your being up for a vote almost every day. I would not be entirely surprised if you end up being a DE.

[Schmidty]

Lathum, why do you think Schmidty is a wizard?

It's my pointy hat, isn't it? :D

[Grammaticus]

It's my pointy hat, isn't it? :D
I thought maybe it was the bunny slippers.

[Lathum]

Lathum, why do you think Schmidty is a wizard?
I'm not saying I am sure but I think coder is a better candidate if you are the duke.

If we go for coder tonight and he is innocent we get schmidty tomorrow. I just think coder is more likely a DE then schmidty.

[Raiders Army]

Makes me a little suscpicious of you, because in that game you were posting as much as Blade. Now it may have had something to do with your being up for a vote almost every day. I would not be entirely surprised if you end up being a DE.
If you think so, great.

I'm actually pretty surprised this is the first time (that I remember right now) that someone even suspected me of being a DE. As I said before, I trust no one. I'm voting for you because it makes sense.

That being said, I just saw RPI-Fan posting in another thread, yet nothing here. He goes on my list of quiet guys.

[saldana]

Ok, i apologize for duking you last game...wait, you were a bad guy...i mean HAHAHAHAHAHA ;)

Dont reason by me, im bat shit crazy...trying to emulate me will get you in a whole lot of trouble as everyone used to hate my play style until i got better and it started rooting out wolves...emulate someone that wasnt clost to getting kicked out of 2 or 3 games when he first started for fighting

that would have been me.

[saldana]

i may be a bit late in posting the results of the night, but the deadline is standing at 9:30, with any vote related owls due by 9:45. sorry for holding anyone up.

[RPI-Fan]

Well, I'm now convinced that Gram is the duke. I think Schmidty is more likely to be a DE than Coder, so my vote will stay on Gram.

[Raiders Army]

Well, I'm now convinced that Gram is the duke. I think Schmidty is more likely to be a DE than Coder, so my vote will stay on Gram.
saldana's warning for "vote related owls due by 9:45" makes me think Duke as well, but it could also mean Brutal wolf.

[Lathum]

Well, I'm now convinced that Gram is the duke. I think Schmidty is more likely to be a DE than Coder, so my vote will stay on Gram.
you know whoever is wrong will look very bad

[Grammaticus]

saldana's warning for "vote related owls due by 9:45" makes me think Duke as well, but it could also mean Brutal wolf.
There are probably other tie breaker roles too. Don't forget that, it is a good way to validate good wizards.

[Grammaticus]

Well, I'm now convinced that Gram is the duke. I think Schmidty is more likely to be a DE than Coder, so my vote will stay on Gram.
This makes me think you are a DE. You are voting for someone you think is really a wizard. That is bad. Plus if you think Schmid is a DE, then vote for him and make it official.

[Grammaticus]

dola,

RPI, you are hedging and it is obvious

[hoopsguy]

Blade, the feud was with RealDeal.

Neighborhood WW historian passing through ... nothing to see here.

[RPI-Fan]

This makes me think you are a DE. You are voting for someone you think is really a wizard. That is bad. Plus if you think Schmid is a DE, then vote for him and make it official.

If I vote for him, as it stands right now, Coder goes to the chopping block.

IMO (in terms of wizard-ness), Gram > Coder > Schmidty.

Therefore, it's quite clear that voting for you gets the result I'm most comfortable with.

[Grammaticus]

If we lynch Scmidty and he turns out to be a DE, we will have to look closely at RPI.

[RPI-Fan]

dola,

RPI, you are hedging and it is obvious

What the heck does that mean?

[RPI-Fan]

If we lynch Scmidty and he turns out to be a DE, we will have to look closely at RPI.


What in the heck is this supposed to mean?

Votes are 5 Gram, 5 Coder, 1 Schmidty.

I change to Schmidty (who I think is most likely DE out of the three), and we have 5 Coder, 4 Gram, 2 Schmidty. How does that do us any good?

This is such an easy vote for me, since IMO Coder is A-Ok. Any play other than voting Gram would be stupid, with my view of Coder being considered.

[Grammaticus]

What the heck does that mean?
You want to try and come out clean regardless of what happens. You are saying one thing while doing the other. You are leaving your vote on me, so if I turn out to be a DE, you say I knew it. If we lynch schmid and he is good, you say, well I wanted to really lynch Gramm. If we lynch schmidty and he is a DE, you say you were doing that on purpose by lynching me.

[Grammaticus]

What in the heck is this supposed to mean?

Votes are 5 Gram, 5 Coder, 1 Schmidty.

I change to Schmidty (who I think is most likely DE out of the three), and we have 5 Coder, 4 Gram, 2 Schmidty. How does that do us any good?

This is such an easy vote for me, since IMO Coder is A-Ok. Any play other than voting Gram would be stupid, with my view of Coder being considered.
not really, there are still votes out and Schmidty can always change his vote at the last minute and coder goes anyway.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Just walked in the door and looked over the thread and I say fuck it...let's see what card Gram has boys and girl...

VOTE GRAM

[RPI-Fan]

You want to try and come out clean regardless of what happens. You are saying one thing while doing the other. You are leaving your vote on me, so if I turn out to be a DE, you say I knew it. If we lynch schmid and he is good, you say, well I wanted to really lynch Gramm. If we lynch schmidty and he is a DE, you say you were doing that on purpose by lynching me.

No, it's not what I'm doing.

But, you can hold me to this statement:

As of right now, it is my opinion that Gram is the Duke, Schmidty is the most likely DE on the block, and Coder is clean.


If you turn out to be a DE (which it appears you will be based on these latest few insane posts), I won't claim credit, although I do feel I'm drawing you out.

Moreover, I've proven in the past that I don't feel the need to defend myself with voting records. I'm a villager doing my best to out the DE's, and if I fail one day I'll try my best to do it the next.

[Grammaticus]

not really, there are still votes out and Schmidty can always change his vote at the last minute and coder goes anyway.
dola,

Than later on when Schmidty turns out to be a DE, you can say, you were trying to get him by lynching me.

[RPI-Fan]

not really, there are still votes out and Schmidty can always change his vote at the last minute and coder goes anyway.

Do you not have a concept of basic logic or something?

There are 8 minutes left. I've been a quiet villager the whole game. Do you really believe, or expect me to believe, that switching votes with (now 7) minutes left is going to sway the whole crowd toward Schmidty.


I'm changing my opinion:

I feel Gram is a DE.

[RPI-Fan]

dola,

Than later on when Schmidty turns out to be a DE, you can say, you were trying to get him by lynching me.

That's what I was doing up until 10 minutes ago.

Now, I feel Coder & Schmidty are good and you are a DE.

[kingfc22]

Phew, I was going to vote Gramm all along since if he was really the duke, then why is he still alive on day 6???

VOTE GRAMMATICUS


I hope this doesn't backfire on me since my vote is so late since I just got home from work.

[Grammaticus]

current votes

Gram - 6 - RA, raz, coder, Schmidty, RPI, Jesse
Coder - 5 -AE, Gram, Lathum, Jeeber, Desnudo
Schmidty - 1 -dubb

[RPI-Fan]

Ugh, now if Gram turns out to be the Duke I'm going to either be killed by him, or lumped in as DE's with kingfc22 and Jesse_Ewiak.

[KWhit]

Vote Gramm

[Grammaticus]

dola, with Kings vote

current votes

Gram - 7 - RA, raz, coder, Schmidty, RPI, Jesse, King
Coder - 5 -AE, Gram, Lathum, Jeeber, Desnudo
Schmidty - 1 -dubb

And RPI, don't worry, I'm lynching Schmidty not you.

[Grammaticus]

Schmidty if you are a wizard, I'm real sorry :(

[Desnudo]

Hmmm, what would Blade do if he was the Ministry of Magic Official?

Kill 'em all and let God sort them out.

[Desnudo]

Same people keep making the last minute votes.

[kingfc22]

Same people keep making the last minute votes.
This is the first time I made a last minute vote and I was going to vote for Gramm all along. I just don't see how the DE's would not have killed the duke already. But I could be proven wrong here shortly.

[Blade6119]

Blade, the feud was with RealDeal.

Neighborhood WW historian passing through ... nothing to see here.
Thats who...thnx buddy, for reminding me of my troubles ;)

[dubb93]

Nice last second run on Gram.

[Desnudo]

If he is the duke, like I think he is, although given how things have gone, I wouldn't be suprised if he was the dali lama king of all DEs, then I'll be curious to know that reason for leaving him alone too.

[Schmidty]

Schmidty if you are a wizard, I'm real sorry :(

I am a Wizard, and I really hope you aren't the Duke.

[Desnudo]

Nice last second run on Gram.

I wonder what would have happened if he hadn't said who he would pick.

[Schmidty]

Nice last second run on Gram.

If I die because Gram is the Duke, I just want to say that I am almost 100% sure you're a DE. You been like a symbiotic attachment to Gram since you begged him to reveal his "role". That 's exactly what a DE would do to clear his name.

If Gram is a DE, then you almost assuredly a Wizard.

[Raiders Army]

Can't wait any longer. I'm going to bed. Sorry Schmidty if you're a wizard and Grammaticus is the Duke.

[dubb93]

If I die because Gram is the Duke, I just want to say that I am almost 100% sure you're a DE. You been like a symbiotic attachment to Gram since you begged him to reveal his "role". That 's exactly what a DE would do to clear his name.

If Gram is a DE, then you almost assuredly a Wizard.

Whatever. Sorry I saw the slap you in the freakin face obviousness of what was going on with Gramm's hinting and you didn't.

[saldana]

The attitude around the village was much more vibrant than it has been for days. In fact, tempers flared to the point of wands being drawn and accusations of asshattery abounded. By the end of the day however, cooler heads had prevailed and you all find yourselves once again in the Wasted Wizard Pub, scattered now around the room instead of packed in as you were only a week ago. Grammaticus stands slowly as the Dementor floats into the room, seemingly resolved to take the votes against him as nothing short of impudence and of no consequence. It appears as though he has nothing to fear as the Dementor hovers momentarily in front of him and then moves on and seizes the neck of schmidty, whose struggles and claims of innocence fall on the deaf ears of the now haughty looking Grammaticus. Schmidty's lifeless body falls to the ground in a heap, and all eyes turn back to Gram, who by popular vote should have been the soulless lump upon the floor. Several of you start to speak, other to check poor Schmidty's arms for the Dark Mark, but before anyone can do anything, a large brown owl swoops into the room through an open window. The owl is clutching a large red envelope in its beak and as it reaches the center of the room, opens its mouth and releases its cargo. The Howler lands on the table nearest Grammaticus and immediately opens, the booming voice coming forth from the red paper makes the following decree: BY ORDER OF THE MINISTER OF MAGIC, FOR GROSS NEGLIGENCE AND MISUSE OF YOUR AUTHORITY OVER A DEMENTOR OF AZKABAN, SPECIFICALLY IN THE USE OF SAID DEMENTOR IN THE DESTRUCTION OF AN INNOCENT WIZARD, YOU ARE HEREBY SUMMARILY DISMISSED FROM YOUR POSITION WITHIN THE MINISTRY OF MAGIC. ALL INSTRUCTION AND CONTROL OF THE DEMENTOR WILL NOW BE HANDLED INTERNALLY AT THE MINISTRY...........ASSHAT, the howler finished derisively as it burst into flames.

schmidty was a wizard.

it is now night 6, night actions due by 9:30 tuesday morning.

[Desnudo]

asshat, haha!

[Blade6119]

Wow, by luck alone you guys should have hit a wolf by now...i cant believe you guys....sorry if this sounds rude, i dont really mean it that way...but god damn

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Well...fuck.

[saldana]

final votes

gram - 8 - RA, Taz, coder, schmidty, rpi, jesse_ewiak, king, kwhit
coder - 5 - AE, gram, lathum, jeeber, desnudo
Schmidty - 1 - dubb

[saldana]

oog, i think asshat might be my new favorite work, thanks schmidty. :)

[kingfc22]

ugh!!!

[RPI-Fan]

Wow, by luck alone you guys should have hit a wolf by now...i cant believe you guys....sorry if this sounds rude, i dont really mean it that way...but god damn

I've been meaning to say this for a while... (note that this statement applies only to your comments in various Werewolf threads and nothing else)


STFU, asshat.

[dubb93]

I'm at a loss for words. Of all the people on my list this morning, Desnudo, Coder, and Schmidty, the other 2 atleast admitted at some point that Gram was the duke and finally got it. How the hell could Schmidty have been a wizard and never seen that?

[Blade6119]

Ill STFU, sure...just try and win this game....please

[Desnudo]

Ill STFU, sure...just try and win this game....please

Nope. Not trying anymore.

[kingfc22]

final votes

gram - 8 - RA, Taz, coder, schmidty, rpi, jesse_ewiak, king, kwhit
coder - 5 - AE, gram, lathum, jeeber, desnudo
Schmidty - 1 - dubb

So 3 no votes?

Superman, WVUFan and Pass.

[Desnudo]

I think coder will wake up very suprised to find himself alive.

[Schmidty]

Blah. I think I'm done with WW for a while.

[Desnudo]

So 3 no votes?

Superman, WVUFan and Pass.

Is that any of these guys second misssed vote? All three have hardly been involved lately and it's not fair to everyone else to have people ghosting through the game.

[kingfc22]

The follwing records the final votes for all the remaining members of the village.

Analysis based on votes:

Jesse - 2 DE votes (Qwik, sndvls), 2 wizard votes (Path x2), 1 unknown vote
Dubb - 2 DE votes (Qwik, sndvls), 3 wizard votes (Alan. Mr. W, Schmidty), 1 unknown vote
Lathum - 2 DE votes (Qwik, sndvls), 3 wizard votes (Path x3), 1 unknown vote
Superman - 1 DE vote (sndvls), 1 wizard vote (Path), 2 unknown votes
WVUFan - 1 DE vote (sndvls), 2 wizard votes (Mr. W x2)
Pass - 1 DE vote (sndvls), 2 wizard votes (Alan, Mr. W), 1 unknown vote
KWhit - 1 DE vote (Qwik), 3 wizard votes (Mr. W, Path, Gramm), 1 unknown vote
King - 1 DE vote (sndvls), 3 wizard votes (Path x2, Gramm), 2 unknown votes
RPI - 1 DE vote (Qwik), 3 wizard votes (Alan, Path, Gramm), 2 unknown votes
Desnudo - 1 DE vote (Qwik), 3 wizard votes (Mr. W x2, CW), 2 unknown votes
Taz - 1 DE vote (Qwik), 5 wizard votes (superman, Mr. W x2, Path, Gramm)
Jeeber - 3 wizard votes (blade, Path x2), 3 unknown votes
RA - 4 wizard votes (Alan, Mr. W, Gramm x2), 1 unknown vote
AE - 4 wizard votes (Neon, Alan, Mr. W, Gramm), 2 unknown votes
Coder - 5 wizard votes (Mr. W x2, CW, Gramm x2), 1 unknown vote


Coder is now my #1 suspect.
WVUFan is not far behind with him missing 3 votes already.

[Desnudo]

Coder is now my #1 suspect.
WVUFan is not far behind with him missing 3 votes already.

Honestly, if he's missed three votes, he should be out and his role, if any, reassigned.

[kingfc22]

Is that any of these guys second misssed vote? All three have hardly been involved lately and it's not fair to everyone else to have people ghosting through the game.
WVU - 3 missed votes
Superman and Pass - 2 missed votes each

[Schmidty]

By the way, I apologize for fucking everyone over. I hope people don't hold grudges in any future games I play.

[kingfc22]

By the way, I apologize for fucking everyone over. I hope people don't hold grudges in any future games I play.
I've never held a grudge against anyone from 1 WW game to another. To do so is utterly stupid and childish.

[Desnudo]

WVU - 3 missed votes
Superman and Pass - 2 missed votes each

Saldana, any thoughts on this subject? I know in past games people have been removed for missing a few votes. It gives people an unfair advantage.

[Grammaticus]

By the way, I apologize for fucking everyone over. I hope people don't hold grudges in any future games I play.
Sorry Schmidty, I git it wrong.

[Grammaticus]

dola, "got it wrong". Or maybe keep getting it wrong.

[Desnudo]

I like the git, I picture you speaking with a big chaw in your mouth.

[Grammaticus]

I like the git, I picture you speaking with a big chaw in your mouth.
That's pretty good. But I did not grow up in Tennessee and would yak if I had any chew. I actually did yak in Lake Michigan after trying to chew some copenhagen in high school, blah.

[JeeberD]

Jesse still hasn't said anything of consequence, so I'm leaning towards him, Jeeber, Lathum, Pass, or king tomorrow (if I'm alive).

Jesus Christ, people, how many times do I have to say it? When I'm around to post, I do. But lately I've hardly had any free time, so I think the 44 (45 now) posts I've made in this thread aren't anything to sneeze at. It's more than at least half the other people that are still alive... :rolleyes:

I had a feeling that Schmidty was a good guy, but at least we know for sure now that Gramm is clean...

[Neon_Chaos]

JESUS H. CHRIST.

It's like watching a headless chicken waddle into the middle of a busy freeway.

[SnDvls]

I love being a dead Death Eater.....GO DE's!!!! :D

[Lathum]

so where do we go now?

[Desnudo]

Well we know Schmidty isn't a DE, so he's out.

[Lathum]

Well we know Schmidty isn't a DE, so he's out.
great observation

[Desnudo]

That's what I'm paid for.

[dubb93]

That's what I'm paid for.

lol, nice.

Probably not a good idea to discuss who we plan on going after next before the night actions.

[kingfc22]

lol, nice.

Probably not a good idea to discuss who we plan on going after next before the night actions.
But, Schmidty is the perfect target. I think Desnudo hit the nail on the head with his suberb observations.

[Desnudo]

Looking at King's chart, it's pretty clear who has the worst voting records. However, do you take that at face value or do you speculate that maybe someone voted for one of their own, knowing that it would probably ensure their survival late into the game.

[kingfc22]

Looking at King's chart, it's pretty clear who has the worst voting records. However, do you take that at face value or do you speculate that maybe someone voted for one of their own, knowing that it would probably ensure their survival late into the game.
Following that thought process. Take a look at Taz. 1 DE vote and then 5 wizard votes. Fits perfectly with what you have described.

[kingfc22]

So 15 left.

More than likely 12-3. Worst case 11-4 IMO.

[Desnudo]

Yeah, I'm also wary of people who agree too quickly with me. Check out Kingfc's voting record.

[kingfc22]

Yeah, I'm also wary of people who agree too quickly with me. Check out Kingfc's voting record.
Yep, mine sucks too. However, I'm not a DE.

[kingfc22]

Dola - it's the same as yours, but I don't think you are a DE.

[Desnudo]

So 15 left.

More than likely 12-3. Worst case 11-4 IMO.

I hope it's 12 left because those three with 2+ missing votes need to get booted. If any of the three turned out to be DEs, that would upset me.

Let's say they're not, that would make it 9-3.

[Desnudo]

Dola - it's the same as yours, but I don't think you are a DE.

I was hoping you'd notice that. If you apply my theory, then you and I are the next in line. ;) Unless you want to take it extreme and look at the guys who have voted for both DEs. I wouldn't put it past them, it's a high risk/high reward scenario.

I think there's a couple of scenarios for tomorrow that bear exploring. Hopefully our decision won't get us armchair QB'd by the dead again.

[kingfc22]

I think there's a couple of scenarios for tomorrow that bear exploring. Hopefully our decision won't get us armchair QB'd by the dead again.
LOL, anything by that.

[TazFTW]

Following that thought process. Take a look at Taz. 1 DE vote and then 5 wizard votes. Fits perfectly with what you have described.
Oh great. I knew I should have saved my vial.

[Coder]

wha wha what?

[Coder]

That one solved absolutely nothing.. I really honestly hoped that if Gramm was the duke he should have lynched me... I even said so.. we had two prime suspects which created two major sides..

Now I won't have the slightest doubt that I get to hang next time around (unless of course the deatheaters kill me tonight which would be an awful play by them since they can have two dead wizards by tomorrow if they don't).

[Coder]

I'm going to make an early prediction, interpret that as you wish. Tonight, the deatheaters will killl Grammaticus, tomorrow, I will be lynched.

I said we had nothing to lose by lynching Gramm, and I stand by that. Like I mentioned in post #1858:

I have some doubts about Gram at the moment, mainly due to what Des said earlier.. if Gram is lying, why didn't the real duke reverse the lynching of path12 and put Gram there instead?

I then went on to say this in post #1864

I still think that lynching Gram is the best thing to do, even if he is the Duke.. it's a win win situation. Obviously Gram can't be killed by a lynching if he's the duke and obviously he'll get killed by the lynching if he's a werewolf.


In summary, I say this.. I don't regret voting on Gram.. it was the best thing to do.. we had such an opportunity to smoke out a DE and we lost it. I even asked Gram to take me out if he was a DE because that's where things were pointing.

I'll be completing yesterday's votes in my Excelsheet later today at work.

[Coder]

Here is where I questioned Gram's decision to lynch me instead of Schmidty should he really be the duke (1827):

Why vote different here than who you plan on lynching in case you getting lynched?

I'll also stick this in there (1841):

So if you were a duke, and Schmidty is a wizard, where does that scenario take you? Does that help you make voting decisions in the future, cause it would completely throw me off the track.

Also, if you are the duke, make that change, and Schmidty is a deatheater.. I will officially ask for SkyDog to give the title: Dumbest Werewolf Player Evah - Bar None.

Then I turn your eyes to Grammaticus post #1848:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Coder
So if you were a duke, and Schmidty is a wizard, where does that scenario take you? Does that help you make voting decisions in the future, cause it would completely throw me off the track.



Then I would look at Dubb and the other palyers mentioned

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coder
Also, if you are the duke, make that change, and Schmidty is a deatheater


Then we would get a DE and that would be good.

[Grammaticus]

final votes

gram - 8 - RA, Taz, coder, schmidty, rpi, jesse_ewiak, king, kwhit
coder - 5 - AE, gram, lathum, jeeber, desnudo
Schmidty - 1 - dubb
Does a search of Schmidty's room uncover anything? Any possessions?

[Schmidty]

Does a search of Schmidty's room uncover anything? Any possessions?

A George Foreman grill and pack of moist towlettes.

[Blade6119]

Does a search of Schmidty's room uncover anything? Any possessions?
Im not the GM, but he will basically say a fancy no if im not mistaken

[WVUFAN]

I wish to apologize for not being active in this game. My mother is currently in the hospital, so I've been travelling 4 hours one way to visit her over the course of the past several days.

[Coder]

I wish to apologize for not being active in this game. My mother is currently in the hospital, so I've been travelling 4 hours one way to visit her over the course of the past several days.

No need to apologize for anything. Some things are more important than games.

[Coder]

Since Schmidty's final words were that he was 100% sure dubb was a deatheater if he (Schmidty) died, I toss this out for analysis.


Name Vote Day Voteno Total Votes
Dubb vote Neon Day 1 10 47
dubb unvote Neon Day 1 14 47
dubb vote Mr. W Day 1 15 47
dubb switch to Qwik Day 1 46 47
dubb vote WVUFan Day 2 12 59
dubb unvote WVUFan Day 2 20 59
dubb vote Pass Day 2 21 59
dubb unvote Pass Day 2 25 59
dubb vote SnDvls Day 2 26 59
dubb unvote SnDvls Day 2 43 59
dubb vote WVUFan Day 2 44 59
dubb unvote WVUFan Day 2 53 59
dubb vote SnDvls Day 2 54 59
dubb vote path12 Day 3 8 51
dubb unvote path12 Day 3 45 51
dubb vote AlanT Day 3 46 51
Dubb vote Wednesday Day 4 7 30
dubb Vote Ardent Day 5 5 26
dubb Vote Schmidty Day 6 5 20

[Raiders Army]

I'm at a loss for words. Of all the people on my list this morning, Desnudo, Coder, and Schmidty, the other 2 atleast admitted at some point that Gram was the duke and finally got it. How the hell could Schmidty have been a wizard and never seen that?
Well, I'm a wizard, and I didn't "see" it. Of all people, you should know that there's a difference between someone saying something and it being true. There's also a big difference between saying you're a role when your neck is on the line and when it isn't. IIRC, didn't Gram claim he was the duke out of nowhere?

[Raiders Army]

No need to apologize for anything. Some things are more important than games.
Agreed. Hope she's doing okay.

[Grammaticus]

Well, I'm a wizard, and I didn't "see" it. Of all people, you should know that there's a difference between someone saying something and it being true. There's also a big difference between saying you're a role when your neck is on the line and when it isn't. IIRC, didn't Gram claim he was the duke out of nowhere?
I didn't exactly claim it from nowhere, I laid some very obvious hints. Then when Dubb brought it out in the open, I responded as if I was and it was about as obvious as you can get from there. If that seems odd to you, it did not for me.

Kind of like when Blade said a tie is a good way to validate a villager who breaks it or see who shifts late and changes votes. Then you said in post 246 that you thought a tie only benefits the wolves. I don't agree with that. If we had left the tie on me and Coder, we could have observed how people reacted and got more out of it, possibly.

[Coder]

current votes

Gram - 5 - RA, raz, coder, Schmidty, RPI**
Coder - 5 -AE, Gram, Lathum, Jeeber, Desnudo
Schmidty - 1 -dubb

**--the non magical tiebreak is on gram

This was posted by Saldana at one point late in the voting yesterday.

What does he mean by that "non-magical tiebreak"? From what I remember after reading through the discussions on tie-breaks, no one was really sure how they worked?

[Coder]

Nevermind, found it in the rules

Each day, the remaining wizards must vote for another wizard to be lynched at nightfall. Any ties will be broken with the Wizard that received their last vote first being the one to be executed, unless some other method of breaking the tie occurs.

[saldana]

1. i will post in the main thread for replacements, although it will be very hard i think to get people to join a game with 2000 posts and the most unreal run of evil imaginable.
2. schmidty has nothing special about his possessions. thanks blade for helping out with that. i went to bed as soon as the night posting last night, i have a bit of a concussion right now and it is pretty hard for me to type these things between my head ache, piss poor coordination and visual focus issues.
3. PING WVUFAN: do you want me to include you in the attempt to be replaced because of your Mom (very much hope she is ok, i am sure everyone here does)

[saldana]

as the impact of the howler begins to recede, you all start slumping back to your homes, well aware that the owners of the night will soon be donning their cloaks, and there is a probablility that one of you will not wake up in the morning. and again your fears are confirmed when green evil lights the night sky and more laughter is heard breaking the silence. nothing has gone well for you all since the second day of this war, but if you think back further, it was actually before that when barkeep and blade with both killed in the same night. had it not been for the late votes to kill the Death Eater sndlvs that night, three wizards would have been killed in a single day, which could be insurmountable in terms of winning the war. Why are you having these thoughts...because you noticed that there is something different about the green light tonight, it seems brighter. Gripped with terror, you look outside and notice the reason immediately. Not one, but two Dark Marks adorn the starless sky outside. They are facing each other, appearing to mimic the laughter that you heard before they were shot into the sky. As day breaks, you slowly gather around the first house that was illluminated last night, and you enter to find the grey lifeless body of kinfc22 propped on the couch on all fours with what appears to be one of coffee warlords dead muggle yak's positioned provacatively behind him. Nothing of note is found in kingfc22's belongings except a large collection of pictures of Professor McGonagal from Hogwarts and numerous boxes of tissues. Moving along to the spot of the second Dark Mark, you almost dont realize what it was the Death Eaters did here. Laying on the floor in next to the liquor cabinet is the body of lathum, lying in pool of his own vomit, reeking of alcohol. So many times have you seen the town drunk in this position, asking anyone if they want to play the muggle game of chance called poker, that it takes you a minute to realize that lathum has been poisoned by the same means that Blade was a week ago. The news gets worse when you move all the liquor bottles out of the way in the cabinet and find the exact same stone basin that was found in Neon Chaos's house. Further examination finds a group of books and pamphlets, the title of which stands out from one of the moldier tomes, "a window into the mind, the ancient art of legilimency". It appears that in his moments of sobriety, Lathum had been a Student of Magic, and had recently mastered Legilimency.

it is day 7, vote deadline is at 9:30

[Raiders Army]

I didn't exactly claim it from nowhere, I laid some very obvious hints. Then when Dubb brought it out in the open, I responded as if I was and it was about as obvious as you can get from there. If that seems odd to you, it did not for me.

Kind of like when Blade said a tie is a good way to validate a villager who breaks it or see who shifts late and changes votes. Then you said in post 246 that you thought a tie only benefits the wolves. I don't agree with that. If we had left the tie on me and Coder, we could have observed how people reacted and got more out of it, possibly.
I see. Also, I was mistaken with the tie thing. I thought a tie resulted in a "no-lynch". I am corrected now.