Do you think % based tipping is fair?

[Airhog]

Personally I don't find it to be all that fair. Is service really much better if you spent 80$ at olive garden then it is if you only spend 25? Does the waiter work much harder if you spend more money. Now I can understand leaving a bigger tip if you have a party of 6 instead of a party of two. but what about eating at a resturaunt that is just expensive? A place where the average plate of food is 30 bucks. I don't really think that a waiter deserves any more money just because my food was expensive.

[Poli]

Ping: JeeberD.

[Joe]

who the hell spends $80 at Olive Garden???

[Logan]

Gotta say I never really thought about it, but I tip percentage anyway.

[Daimyo]

If you can't afford the 18% tip at a place that charges $30 a plate you really can't afford to be eating at places that charge $30 a plate.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Generally, the higher the pricetag, the better the service. Or at least that's the theory.

Along with that comes a higher service level expectation, so there are also cases with me at least where a $10/per meal server ends up with a higher rake than a $30/per server.

Honestly, I don't sweat tip costs too much in general, I consider them part & parcel of the dining out experience. Good service is rewarded, bad service is punished, average service gets average tip.

[sabotai]

Personally I don't find it to be all that fair. Is service really much better if you spent 80$ at olive garden then it is if you only spend 25? Does the waiter work much harder if you spend more money. Now I can understand leaving a bigger tip if you have a party of 6 instead of a party of two.
I think that's pretty much the assumption of a % based tipping. At the same place, if one party spends $80 and another spends $25, that pretty much means that either the party was bigger, or they bought more stuff (appitizers, desserts, etc., as opposed to the $25 people who just bought entrees).

But, can't speak for places that charge $20-$30 for a standard entree because it does not matter how much money I have, I'd never go to those places.

[Vince]

Personally I don't find it to be all that fair. Is service really much better if you spent 80$ at olive garden then it is if you only spend 25? Does the waiter work much harder if you spend more money. Now I can understand leaving a bigger tip if you have a party of 6 instead of a party of two. but what about eating at a resturaunt that is just expensive? A place where the average plate of food is 30 bucks. I don't really think that a waiter deserves any more money just because my food was expensive.
Does the waiter work harder? Certainly. Let's take two tables in the same restaurant. Say Table one is Airhog and Ms. Airhog, and table two is Ardent and Ms. Ardent. Table one (Airhog) orders the exact same entrees as table two. However, Table one also orders an appetizer and two mixed drinks. Therefore, table one has a bill that is about $20 higher than table two.

The server has to make more trips to the table for table one (bringing out the appetizer).

The server has to tip out his bartender for making the drinks for table one (at CPK I am required to tip out my bartender 10% of my alcohol sales -- if I sell $100 worth of alcoholic beverages, I owe him $10).

The server also has to tip out his host/hostess, busser and food runner (if applicable), usually based on a percentage of total sales. So if you order more food and don't tip more, the waiter is earning less money. If in fact you stiff your waiter, they are in fact losing money for waiting on you. At CPK, I am required to tip out a fixed percentage of my sales, regardless of how much I made in tips.

Should table one tip more than table two?

Generally speaking, the only way different bills at the same restaurant differ is if you have more food -- which means the server is doing more work. I think this means they earn a better tip.

[HomerJSimpson]

I would be for doing away with "tipping as salary" and just add 18% to the standard menu item. Then tipping can be a "thank you" instead of a "must do."

[Vince]

As for the discussion on whether or not the $30 per plate restaurant deserves a much higher tip than a $10 per plate restaurant...well, I don't know. I'd assume that the service is better at a nicer, more expensive restaurant, but I don't know what I could do better/faster/nicer than I already do at my $10 per plate restaurant.

EDIT -- Homer broke up my dola.

[JeeberD]

What is CPK?

[Vince]

California Pizza Kitchen.

www.cpk.com

[Rizon]

Ping: Mr. Pink

[Joe]

I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.

[BrianD]

Service at a higher price per plate restaurant is generally going to be better for the simple reason that the staff per table ratio is lower. With fewer tables to keep track of, staff at the more expensive restaurants are more likely to be around exactly when you need them, and not just when it is convenient for them to pass. It is also more likely that you will get a more relaxed dining experience and not feel like the restaurant is trying to rush you out so they can put someone else at your table.

[Logan]

Ping: Mr. Pink

Well done.

[Vince]

It is also more likely that you will get a more relaxed dining experience and not feel like the restaurant is trying to rush you out so they can put someone else at your table.
Heh, that's probably my biggest flaw as a server. I have the hardest time making sure that I'm always there without giving people the sense that I want them to get the hell out of there. I obviously want to turn my tables as quickly as possible...but I want each of my guests to feel like I was the best server they have ever had. So I'd happily trade a few minutes of a full table for a feeling that they are rushed.

[Raiders Army]

As I posted in the Ping: Jeebs, Quik Thread, since I believe this is directed at me somewhat:

I can see where the cheap motherfuckers comment comes from.

--lurker, not logged in

(Don't ban me for not being logged in, skydog!)
#1: I am a cheap motherfucker.

As a waiter, it's disappointing that a big tip from you is sub-15%.

#2: It was a "big" tip since I received good service. Good service is what I expect. Most often, I receive shitty to horrible service...like at Chili's two weeks ago where my food was cold, the waiter couldn't remember who got whose drink, etc.

Most of the time I give 10% to less than 10% because that's the service I receive. Also, FWIW, It was $44.35 before tax.

[BrianD]

Heh, that's probably my biggest flaw as a server. I have the hardest time making sure that I'm always there without giving people the sense that I want them to get the hell out of there. I obviously want to turn my tables as quickly as possible...but I want each of my guests to feel like I was the best server they have ever had. So I'd happily trade a few minutes of a full table for a feeling that they are rushed.

It is a tough thing to manage. Naturally your customers want to see you whenever they have an empty plate, but they generally don't want to see you during the eating process. If you have one or two tables to watch, you can have perfect timing. If you have 8 or 9 tables to watch (or more?), it is a chore to not completely ignore a table.

This is unrelated, but I still think restaurants should put a camera in the light fixture above the table to watch over the table. That way staff can see when they need to clear plates or refill a drink without always hovering.

[Raiders Army]

Oh, and while we were at Chili's, no shit, our appetizers took 30 minutes to come out and then our food came out less than 2 minutes after the appetizers.

[Mike D]

My wife is an ex-waitress and I still tip the hell out of waiters and waitresses because of it or I get a kick to the shin under the table. :)

But because of her experience in the food industry I appreciate the work that goes in when the dining out experience goes smoothly. It takes a good bit of effort on everybody's part to make it work right.

So here's my payout for tips at a restaraunt.

15% - Service/Food was not good but acceptable.
20% - Good service and food.
25% - If I was really impressed with the overall service.

Obviously most of this starts and ends with the food server, but how well the food tastes weighs heavily.

But the bottom line is that I am a fair tipper, in my estimation.

I've heard the horror stories of what makes a bad tipper.

[Vince]

Oh, and while we were at Chili's, no shit, our appetizers took 30 minutes to come out and then our food came out less than 2 minutes after the appetizers.
That's ridiculous. Oftentimes things can get screwed up (the order has to go from the customer, to the server, usually to a computer, to a printer, to the kitchen staff. Between miscommunication, mistake by the server, mistake by the computer (printer failing, being out of ink/paper, etc) or mistake by the cooks), but if ever there is a problem with the food in the kitchen, I am usually right there to ask the table if there is anything I can do, or to ask them if they want me to hold up the entrees to give them a chance to work on the appetizers. I truly don't understand how some servers don't understand that you just have to think for 2 seconds what they would think if that happened to them.

Though it is totally understandable from the table's point of view, it's also a pain in the ass when an error in the kitchen is responsible for a table giving a server a terrible tip.

[BrianD]

Oh, and while we were at Chili's, no shit, our appetizers took 30 minutes to come out and then our food came out less than 2 minutes after the appetizers.

In a situation like this, tip the server the normal 15% and then go off on the manager. The server can't control the timing of food preparation, he or she just brings the food when it is ready. Once you go off on the manager, you will either get cheap food next time, or you can decide the restaurant is not worth repeat business.

[Vince]

My wife is an ex-waitress and I still tip the hell out of waiters and waitresses because of it or I get a kick to the shin under the table. :)

But because of her experience in the food industry I appreciate the work that goes in when the dining out experience goes smoothly. It takes a good bit of effort on everybody's part to make it work right.

So here's my payout for tips at a restaraunt.

15% - Service/Food was not good but acceptable.
20% - Good service and food.
25% - If I was really impressed with the overall service.

Obviously most of this starts and ends with the food server, but how well the food tastes weighs heavily.

But the bottom line is that I am a fair tipper, in my estimation.

I've heard the horror stories of what makes a bad tipper.
I would definitely consider you a good tipper, rather than just a fair tipper. While I always shoot to get 20% from people, anyone that will tip 15% for good service is a good enough tipper in my book. Less than 10%, and you get an acidic comment to one of my co-workers after you leave. You leave less than the bill, and I'll chase you down the street :)

[Vince]

The server can't control the timing of food preparation, he or she just brings the food when it is ready.
While this is mostly true, many of the poorer servers at my restaurant will let food sit at the expo counter for a while because they are busy doing other things. While they are never just sitting there doing nothing looking at the food, they just aren't organized enough to get to the food when it is ready.

[Raiders Army]

In a situation like this, tip the server the normal 15% and then go off on the manager. The server can't control the timing of food preparation, he or she just brings the food when it is ready. Once you go off on the manager, you will either get cheap food next time, or you can decide the restaurant is not worth repeat business.
Normally, yeah. But in this case, I think it was the server. He was a surfer dude idiot from New England. He told us that it was his second day on the job (too bad...I expect the same service, but I'm willing to cut a little slack...but not as much as he was willing to take). He walked by our table numerous times before the appetizers came out and didn't say a thing. The other thing was that our food was cold, which meant that he screwed up, not the kitchen. And....the least he could do is tell them to microwave it to warm it up since he fucked up and let it get cold.

[Raiders Army]

Dola, and I still left him $5 on a $60 bill.

[John Galt]

I'm pretty much the same as Dutch although I have given 33% tips on especially notable occasions. I think Raiders Army's tipping habits are pretty much indefensible.

[Raiders Army]

I'm pretty much the same as Dutch although I have given 33% tips on especially notable occasions. I think Raiders Army's tipping habits are pretty much indefensible.
Screw that. If you don't like it, get another job or do a better job.

Edit--Oh, and don't act like your values are "the standard" and you can look down on me you pompous asshole.

[Fouts]

If I have to worry about how much I'm going to tip, I'll stay home and eat.

[BrianD]

Normally, yeah. But in this case, I think it was the server. He was a surfer dude idiot from New England. He told us that it was his second day on the job (too bad...I expect the same service, but I'm willing to cut a little slack...but not as much as he was willing to take). He walked by our table numerous times before the appetizers came out and didn't say a thing. The other thing was that our food was cold, which meant that he screwed up, not the kitchen. And....the least he could do is tell them to microwave it to warm it up since he fucked up and let it get cold.

Well, responsibility for cold food pretty much has to fall on the server. I would probably tip less than 15% for something like this as well...though probably not less than 12%. In any event, I would talk to the manager and make sure that either the bill is reduced to match the quality received, or a credit was issued to get the quality paid for in the future.

[kcchief19]

Personally I don't find it to be all that fair. Is service really much better if you spent 80$ at olive garden then it is if you only spend 25? Does the waiter work much harder if you spend more money. Now I can understand leaving a bigger tip if you have a party of 6 instead of a party of two. but what about eating at a resturaunt that is just expensive? A place where the average plate of food is 30 bucks. I don't really think that a waiter deserves any more money just because my food was expensive. The assumption at the the heart of this is that the job of waiter/waitress at $8 entree restaurant is the same as the job of waiter/waitress at a $30 entree restaurant. i would say that in most cases, that is false.

The waiter/waitress at the $30 entree restaurant probably needs to be able to know significant menu changes on daily basis, know specials new everyday, be able to recommend a good wine out of a massive selection with an array of dishes and maintain a higher level of appearance which may include buying their own clothes and paying for cleaning, among other things.

The job of waiter/waitress is tiered just like most other jobs in the market. You work your way to the top. The wait staff at high-end restaurants are usually highly trained and the best at what they do. I think the issue here may be that people who are good at their job make it look seamless to people who don't know what the job entails. The waiters/waitress I know who work at high-end restaurants got there by paying their dues and becoming a professional server, working hard to make it look easy.

[kcchief19]

Screw that. If you don't like it, get another job or do a better job.

Edit--Oh, and don't act like your values are "the standard" and you can look down on me you pompous asshole. Well, "the standard" is 15 percent for adequate service, less than that if you feel the service was in adequate, more if you think it was exceptional.

Honestly, if you get bad service as often as you say you do, I think it might be because you have a tell -- people who wait tables aren't idiots, and many of them over the years learn to pick up on nonverbal cues and behaviors. If they profile you based on your behavior or attitude as a bad tipper, you may get what your ask for.

[BrianD]

Ok, so we have a few people in the industry around here. Anyone want to admit to serving a sneeze-burger to a particularly bad customer?

[Mike D]

I'm pretty much the same as Dutch although I have given 33% tips on especially notable occasions. I think Raiders Army's tipping habits are pretty much indefensible.

WTF???? Get the defibrillator....STAT!

John and I have something in common. :)

[sabotai]

Honestly, if you get bad service as often as you say you do, I think it might be because you have a tell
Or it could just be he goes to places that generally have bad service, or he goes to places in certain neighborhoods.

I've been to places all over New Jersey (grew up in south-west Jersey, school near Atlantic City and went out with a girl who lived in North Jersey). The service in certain towns, for whatever reason, is far better than others. And now that she lives in Philly, I've been to places around the city now too. Same situation. There is an area that we've been too. Every single resturant you go to (I think there is 5) had really bad service. But go down the street a dozen or two blocks to another area (3 or 4 places there) and every resturant there has had really good service. Not sure if anyone else has noticed.

I think the question is, if RA had bad service at Chilli's, does he go back there? Whenever I get bad service, I usually leave a smaller tip (maybe 10%, I usually tip around 15-20%, however the chnage works out. :) ). But I don't go back. At all (if I have a say in the matter that is).

[JonInMiddleGA]

WTF???? Get the defibrillator....STAT!

John and I have something in common. :)

You think you're shocked? Imagine how I felt.

[stevew]

I always tip 20% or up to the next dollar. I do not think it is right, or fair that most servers only have to claim something like 12% of their sales as income. There's a serious gap between what they claim for tax purposes, and what they actually make.

[sachmo71]

Tip your waiters ya cheap bastages! :D

[JonInMiddleGA]

And remember: the more you tip, the faster they strip :D

[sabotai]

And remember: the more you tip, the faster they strip :D
How many times do I have to tell you? Just because they serve beer at Volcanic Eruptions, that does not make it a resturant!

:D

[Samdari]

Personally I don't find it to be all that fair. Is service really much better if you spent 80$ at olive garden then it is if you only spend 25? Does the waiter work much harder if you spend more money. Now I can understand leaving a bigger tip if you have a party of 6 instead of a party of two. but what about eating at a resturaunt that is just expensive? A place where the average plate of food is 30 bucks. I don't really think that a waiter deserves any more money just because my food was expensive.

Well, in general, the service is 10 times better at those places than most $10-$15 a plate restaurants, so double or triple the tip is more than fair.

[maximus]

who the hell spends $80 at Olive Garden???

I just spent $60 last night ($13 of it was tip). I'm a big money tipper esp if they are good. On avg I leave a $10 tip on meals at $20 (only if I think they really deserve it). Other than that I usually leave $5. If they suck I leave nothing.

[TroyF]

Never been a big deal to me. I expect to leave teh tip. Essentially, the waiter/waitress starts out with 20% with me. They can gain more and they can lose.

But I walk in with the set expectation of adding at least 20 percent to my bill. In the rare case where the wait staff is poor but I see a busboy working his ass off or the food was great, I will give my tip directly to the manager and request that those people get the full tip and that the waiter gets nothing.

[jbmagic]

here in california, i usually just double the tax amount on the receipt for there tip. it makes it easier to firgure out.

we have a 8.25% tax rate. so it comes out to be 16.50% that i tip.

[HomerJSimpson]

I usually ask for the check, and when they go to get it, RUN!!!

[jbmagic]

when you guys are in a group going to dinner, how do you split the bill?

you put in what you order or split it up evenly among everyone + plus tip?

when i go out with friends, we split the bill evenly among all of us.

[jamesUMD]

Honestly, if you get bad service as often as you say you do, I think it might be because you have a tell
This is funny because I often order just water when I eat dinner and sometimes my wife does to, but I always find myself letting them know that I am also ordering an appetizer in the same sentence so that they do not think I am just cheap! :D

[Joe]

Ok, so we have a few people in the industry around here. Anyone want to admit to serving a sneeze-burger to a particularly bad customer?

Jeeber put cum in my pasta before :(

[Logan]

when you guys are in a group going to dinner, how do you split the bill?

you put in what you order or split it up evenly among everyone + plus tip?

when i go out with friends, we split the bill evenly among all of us.

Depends on the situation, but usually we just split it evenly, just for the ease of it.

But if let's say there's 6 of us, and 3 of us are having some drinks, then we'll pay for what we ordered.

[Radii]

when you guys are in a group going to dinner, how do you split the bill?

you put in what you order or split it up evenly among everyone + plus tip?

when i go out with friends, we split the bill evenly among all of us.


It's all about separate checks. Its rare that a waiter/waitress gives us a look when requesting separate checks.

[Chubby]

damn you fuckers are cheap. i usually take 20% of the bill and round up or down depending on the service. I refuse to leave fucking change on the table as tip, just round the nearest dollar (up or down) and be done with it.

[stevew]

Ok, so we have a few people in the industry around here. Anyone want to admit to serving a sneeze-burger to a particularly bad customer?
I've definately made a bad customer some "extra spicy" food before, if they are a known "asshole" when they come in. That just consists of throwing in a shake or two of the midlevel habenero sauces(stuff maybe 1/2 as hot as Dave's Insanity). into something like Chicken Wings that are already spicy. But i wouldnt do anything like sneezing on someones burger, or spitting on their food, that's just uncool.

[RPI-Fan]

I think I'm in the "bad tipper" category. I sell sneakers and never get any tips (nor do I make commission), yet bust my ass to give the best possible service to all of my customers. Waiters have it easy.

[Raiders Army]

*This is not meant to start an argument*

For all of you who tip big at the restaurants...

Do you also tip well for other things? The bellboy carrying your bag to your room? The taxicab driver? Your barber? If so, why? If not, why not?

I used to tip my barber over 50%. For an $8 haircut, I'd give him a $5 tip. Why? Because he held a straight razor to my head and neck and did a damn good job. Other than that, I don't find myself in situations where I tip a lot.

[Raiders Army]

Dola, also I consider a $13 haircut not a bad deal. Meals, however, are pretty expensive anyhow, so a % based tip is not as good of a deal.

[Logan]

I give my barber a $5 tip on a $10 haircut for a few reasons: 1. He's good. 2. He's a year older than me and is doing this full-time to support himself. 3. He squeezes me in if I don't have an appointment. 4. He's good.

[AZSpeechCoach]

I was in Atlanta 2 years ago for Speech Nationals. We had just finished the awards ceremony, it was nearly 11:00 at night, and we wanted to find somewhere for the Arizona delegation to eat together. We found a little 24 hour diner attached to one of our hotels. Granted, we were a group of about 20 people, but we were willing to take over their outside patio, we had no expectation of all sitting at the same table, we wanted to sit and talk, and the place was pretty dead anyway. Service was miserable. One school had to wait 90 minutes for menus; 75% of our group never got drinks; meals were incorrectly prepared. Our server came out to see us twice, and both times just turned around and walked away. We have pictures of coaches drinking out of the water pitcher because they never received glasses. Then, at the end, the waitress brought out the check for Red Mountain High School. She had added a 25% tip onto the bill, and then she told the head coach that she could "leave the additional tip on the table."
Tracy asked her, "What additional tip?"
"The other money that you want to leave me."
"What do you mean? Service was horrible. In fact, I want to see your manager. This 25% is way too much, in my opinion."
The waitress put her hands on her hips and said, "You get charged on the bill, AND you leave me an additional tip. That's how we do things in Atlanta." Then she turned around and left. The manager was nowhere to be found.
Nobody left an additional tip that night...

[Anthony]

barber is the only thing i don't tip based on percentage. my "haircut" (quotes because i shave my head with a buzzer nowadays, that takes as much skill as Izulde in a room full of hot chicks) costs as little as $11 in one place or $13 if i get it done near my job. when i get my hair done for $13 i pay $1 tip, when i get my hair buzzed for $11 i pay $2 tip. there isn't a lot of skill needed to shave someone's head, and technically i should just purchase my own buzzers and do it myself. before when id get an actual haircut i'd still only tip $2.

at really nice restaurants i tip rather well (over 20%) based on percentage, at regular ole eateries i tip the normal 20%.

[DaddyTorgo]

I was in Atlanta 2 years ago for Speech Nationals. We had just finished the awards ceremony, it was nearly 11:00 at night, and we wanted to find somewhere for the Arizona delegation to eat together. We found a little 24 hour diner attached to one of our hotels. Granted, we were a group of about 20 people, but we were willing to take over their outside patio, we had no expectation of all sitting at the same table, we wanted to sit and talk, and the place was pretty dead anyway. Service was miserable. One school had to wait 90 minutes for menus; 75% of our group never got drinks; meals were incorrectly prepared. Our server came out to see us twice, and both times just turned around and walked away. We have pictures of coaches drinking out of the water pitcher because they never received glasses. Then, at the end, the waitress brought out the check for Red Mountain High School. She had added a 25% tip onto the bill, and then she told the head coach that she could "leave the additional tip on the table."
Tracy asked her, "What additional tip?"
"The other money that you want to leave me."
"What do you mean? Service was horrible. In fact, I want to see your manager. This 25% is way too much, in my opinion."
The waitress put her hands on her hips and said, "You get charged on the bill, AND you leave me an additional tip. That's how we do things in Atlanta." Then she turned around and left. The manager was nowhere to be found.
Nobody left an additional tip that night...
if i was the head coach i would have subtracted the additional 25% off the bill and left that amount along with a phone # to my cell phone with instructions that the manager could call me if he wanted to discuss why i did that.

and yeah that might open you up to the cops paying you a visit, but really what's the worst they're going to do over that...make him pay the restraunt that amount? he still lets the waitresses boss know how horrible she was...

[Shaun Sullivan]

I tip huge. Sometimes 40%. Especially at places I frequent. Its amazing the level of service I get when I come back -- they really do remember.

[Karlifornia]

VINCE- Are you at the Valley Fair location?

I'm going to come to your section without you knowing and totally stiff you on the tip :)

[Glengoyne]

I once left nothing for a waitress. It was after I'd basically gotten into a shouting match with the owner/chef over initially the fact that I didn't show them my "entertainment card" before I was seated. I gave it to the Waitress sometime early during the meal. She said they wouldn't honor it, and pointed to a little sign on the register saying that the Entertainment cards had to be presented before seating. I asked to talk to the manager, and he wouldn't budge. It went down hill pretty quickly...something on the order of....

"You have to tell us about the discount before we seat you."
"What so the service could have been any poorer? Do you realize how long we waited for our meals?....If I had told you our meal was discounted it would have tasted even shitier that it did?"

That last bit was pretty loud, and in full view of a number of people waiting for their food. So I took my discount out of the Waitress's tip, apologized to her and left. Never been back.

Note: I typically double the tax for my tips. oftentimes more, rarely less...I have no aversion to leaving change including pennies on the table as a tip. Of course I don't pull it out of my pocket to do so, but if there is 17 cents in change returned to me...that server is getting that change back as a tip. Oh and I almost always tip in cash...not on the Credit Card.

My aunt had the a great "tip" story. She and a friend had exceptionally poor service, and with exceptionally poor attitude when they complained. She paid the bill and when the change was returned she collected all the bills and left the change. The waiter followed them outside the restaurant, and asked if they had forgotten anything.... My aunt said "Why yes, I believe I left some change on the table." She went back collected it, and left. Later she said she actually wished she had asked him to bring it to her.

[Izulde]

I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.

If you're serious, then you're a fucking asshole.

Waiters only make something like $2.50 an hour or something to that effect.

They don't even make minimum wage because they're expected to get tips. But yeah, go ahead and be a dick like that. Cheap bastard.

[Eaglesfan27]

If you're serious, then you're a fucking asshole.

Waiters only make something like $2.50 an hour or something to that effect.

They don't even make minimum wage because they're expected to get tips. But yeah, go ahead and be a dick like that. Cheap bastard.
Exactly. One of my best friend's was a waiter, and as a result I always tip fairly well. I tip 15% for below average service, 20% for average to good service, and 25% for excellent service.

Rarely, I'll only tip 10% if service is very bad.

[TazFTW]

If you're serious, then you're a fucking asshole.

Waiters only make something like $2.50 an hour or something to that effect.

They don't even make minimum wage because they're expected to get tips. But yeah, go ahead and be a dick like that. Cheap bastard.
Someone needs to rent Reservoir Dogs.


Nice Guy Eddie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001606/): C'mon, throw in a buck!
Mr. Pink (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000114/): Uh-uh, I don't tip.
Nice Guy Eddie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001606/): You don't tip?
Mr. Pink (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000114/): Nah, I don't believe in it.
Nice Guy Eddie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001606/): You don't believe in tipping?
Mr. Blue (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0120483/): You know what these chicks make? They make shit.
Mr. Pink (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000114/): Don't give me that. She don't make enough money that she can quit.
Nice Guy Eddie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001606/): I don't even know a fucking Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you don't ever tip?
Mr. Pink (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000114/): I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.
Mr. Blue (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0120483/): Hey, our girl was nice.
Mr. Pink (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000114/): She was okay. She wasn't anything special.
Mr. Blue (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0120483/): What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
Nice Guy Eddie (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001606/): I'd go over twelve percent for that.

[WrongWay]

What I hate is being told what I tip. The tip is already on my bill, for a party of 2-4 this is unacceptable. And, it is genreally your middle of the road places, Chillies, the olive Garden, Applebys, TGIFs, you know your chains, that always try and stick me with this. Your low rent Diners and high Scale Restaurants never put a tip on your bill. Why?

I can't believe no one has pointer this out yet; At your Very Expensive places there is a good chance that the Employees are Paying to work there. The Chefs will be on commision, but your servers may actually be "Paying" the Management to work there.

Finally, Don't be afraid to be Rude. You know the old saying, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". Remember you the customer are totally in controll untill you pay. If something is not acceptable, you can always just leave. This is the one thing I have learned from always being on the road. Never rasie your voice, never argue, just calmly state exactly what you want and add that you are leaving immediatley if you don't get it.


If they want their 18% madatory tip, eventhough the service was terrible, than can haul me into court to get it. In other words, "You will either remove it from my bill or I am leaving". Sometimes you have to be rude and explain to them that you, The Customer, are holding all the cards. Remember, like the spoiled brat with the football, if I don't like it, I can always just take my money and go home.

[Izulde]

Someone needs to rent Reservoir Dogs.

Pwned, I am.

[Solecismic]

I just don't eat out any more. Service has become so bad, on average, that it's better just to get takeout. Less time wasted, less aggravation.

And, believe it or not, there are some places that have become so bad that it's pointless even to get takeout any more. Our local Chili's is run by donkeys. The food is fine, for what it is, but the entire wait staff is made up of surly teenagers who specialize in avoiding eye contact. The place was always packed when it first opened maybe two or three years ago. Now, it's half-full on a typical weekend night - and you still have to wait forever to pick up your phoned-in order.

I don't give a damn about the whole tipping argument. I know waiters depend on it, so I consider it part of the cost of the meal. On the very rare occasions we dine out, unless they drop soup on me or spit in my food, they're getting 15%, 20% if it's a particularly fancy place.

[Vince]

VINCE- Are you at the Valley Fair location?

I'm going to come to your section without you knowing and totally stiff you on the tip :)
Roll by Oakridge -- the best I can do you is free (non-alcoholic) drinks, but I'll try to hook you up :)

[Vince]

Finally, Don't be afraid to be Rude. You know the old saying, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". Remember you the customer are totally in controll untill you pay. If something is not acceptable, you can always just leave. This is the one thing I have learned from always being on the road. Never rasie your voice, never argue, just calmly state exactly what you want and add that you are leaving immediatley if you don't get it.
There's a difference between being rude and calmly stating what you want. I have the pleasure of working at CPK, a restaurant that is nearly 100% customer-centric, and I know that the instant anything is wrong, a manager is at the table asking if there is anything they can do (ie comp), fix or change to make their experience better.

I just have such a hard time understanding why people in the food service industry do not treat people with respect. Don't they realize that one bad review turns away more than 10 times the number of people that a good review adds people? I mean think about it -- if you have a terrible experience somewhere, you're bound to tell people about it, if only to warn them away from eating/patronizing the place. If someone makes the mistake of asking you about the place, you'll probably read them the riot act of how bad the place is. While all the company would have had to do is eat a maybe $15 charge to comp your entree, or a little more to comp the meal.

Maybe I've had the pleasure of working with well-trained, intelligent management teams, but each restaurant/food service company I've worked with (CPK, Woodstock's, Restaurant Connection and Max's Opera Cafe) has treated customers the same way.

[Joe]

Pwned, I am.


:p

[Passacaglia]

This is unrelated, but I still think restaurants should put a camera in the light fixture above the table to watch over the table. That way staff can see when they need to clear plates or refill a drink without always hovering.

Like in The War with Mr. Wizzle!

[John Galt]

Screw that. If you don't like it, get another job or do a better job.

Edit--Oh, and don't act like your values are "the standard" and you can look down on me you pompous asshole.

Nice. I didn't say my values are the standard, but everyone knows 15% is. You go below that on a regular basis because you are cheap. That is weak ass shit.

[Jets80]

I tip good if the person actualy performs some sort of service other then bringing something from point A to point B.

So as for tips at a restaurant, i'm a 15% tipper. If the servcice is real bad I might put out my normal 15% and then Gerorge Costanza a buck or two off the table.

Pizza guys - I always give a buck. no matter how big the order, how fast, how slow. Pappas Johns charges a 1.50 delivery charge. I would have given that 1.50 to the driver but since the company takes it from me thats less for the driver.

My barber - charges me 11 bucks. I always give him 15 or 16 bucks and throw him a 20 spot around the holidays.

The guy who washs my car : no not the kids at the local car wash who pretend to towel dry it when it comes out of the machine, I mean the guy who comes to my work and spends an hour and a half of hard work washing/waxing my car. He charges me 40 and I give him 50.

When I lived in New Jersey, I would have to tip the garbage man if you wanted to throw out a couch or bed or something. So I would throw them a twenty spot.

I tip bartenders good, becasue they perform an an important service.

I don't tip good at strip clubs - I hardly ever go there, but when I do I dont throw money around becasue I know they are just whores who are using me, so fuck them.

I also tip better to people who I see all the time or deal with on a regular basis. This way they know me and will take care of me. I tip less if its a stranger or a place that I probably will not return to again.

[wade moore]

My take on tipping is similar to some others in here..

I walk in the door planning on 20%... If I get normal, everyday service.. that's the tip they get...

If it is not-so-good, they get 15%...

If it is stellar it can be anywhere from 25%-50% depending on a combo of things (how good it is, how good the food was [note - quality of food should never make the tip go DOWN imo], what kind of mood i'm in, etc)...

If it is TERRIBLE... 0%... I see no sense in a 5-10% tip.. if it is THAT bad that you're going below 15%, why bother?

FWIW - I have only done 0% two or three times and I eat out a LOT...

I also have to echo the sentiments of others that cities make a huge difference... In the town I now live in, the people are always very nice and pleasent - I'm shocked when this isn't the case..

When I go visit family where I grew up (DC Area) it's terrible.. I'm lucky to get drinks filled, etc... a smiling face is like a miracle...

[Tekneek]

I would be for doing away with "tipping as salary" and just add 18% to the standard menu item. Then tipping can be a "thank you" instead of a "must do."

Who decided it was a "must do" anyway? I don't have an obligation to tip someone. I cannot remember the last time I did not do it, but I certainly don't feel obligated to give them something.

People hate my position on this...so I will share it anyway. My tips range anywhere from 4 cents to 35% of the bill, generally. The worst, which I have not had for years, earn the 4 penny tip. The absolute best cap out at about 35%, generally. If the bill is rather small, but the service was simply astounding (regardless of where we were), we might go out of the "percentage of bill" method.

[Raiders Army]

Nice. I didn't say my values are the standard, but everyone knows 15% is. You go below that on a regular basis because you are cheap. That is weak ass shit.
I don't think you want to judge my values, pot.

[Raiders Army]

Dola, and if you don't get the "pot" reference, it is because your homosexual tendencies are just as indefensible as my cheap tipping.

[wade moore]

Step Right Up...

I'm taking bids on time until this thread locks... Closest bid gets a prize!

[Raiders Army]

Step Right Up...

I'm taking bids on time until this thread locks... Closest bid gets a prize!
I'm not being mean. I'm just stating a point. Both are lifestyle choices. I don't agree with his and he doesn't agree with mine...but he called mine indefensible. I disagree. I think it's as defensible a situation as homosexuality is. Both are choices.

[sabotai]

I'm not being mean. I'm just stating a point. Both are lifestyle choices. I don't agree with his and he doesn't agree with mine...but he called mine indefensible. I disagree. I think it's as defensible a situation as homosexuality is. Both are choices. Thanks for reminding me why I don't much like visiting the forum anymore.

[Logan]

I don't tip good at strip clubs - I hardly ever go there, but when I do I dont throw money around becasue I know they are just whores who are using me, so fuck them.

Dude, they're just trying to make money to pay their tuition. :)

[Raiders Army]

Thanks for reminding me why I don't much like visiting the forum anymore.
No problem.

Edit--And if you're offended by it, then oh well. I meant no malice. Just making a point about values.

[Joe]

...

[Lathum]

What I hate is being told what I tip. The tip is already on my bill, for a party of 2-4 this is unacceptable. And, it is genreally your middle of the road places, Chillies, the olive Garden, Applebys, TGIFs, you know your chains, that always try and stick me with this. Your low rent Diners and high Scale Restaurants never put a tip on your bill. Why



where the hell did you come up with this crap?

[Lathum]

I don't really have anything to add to this wonderfull thread that usually pops up about once every six months.

If you get shitty service you should expect a shitty tip. If you get good service and don't tip well then you are an ass and you shoudn't go out to eat. It is that simple.

[Lathum]

dola-

been a bartender for 10 years

[sabotai]

Edit--And if you're offended by it, then oh well. I meant no malice. Just making a point about values.
Heh, no, pretty much nothing offends me. It's just that a perfectly good discussion on tipping had to take a dark turn, and now will probably turn into a flame war on if homosexuality is a choice or not. Simply because you decided to be a jackass, a condition that seems to be running rampant among too many members of this forum.

[Tekneek]

Heh, no, pretty much nothing offends me. It's just that a perfectly good discussion on tipping had to take a dark turn, and now will probably turn into a flame war on if homosexuality is a choice or not. Simply because you decided to be a jackass, a condition that seems to be running rampant among too many members of this forum.

I agree. It has nothing to do with being offensive. It has to do with ruining a discussion. I'm not sure I understand the relevance of bringing up homosexuality anyway. Life is full of thousands of choices. If he really wanted to bring up 'lifestyle choices', there were a lot of other things to choose from without trying to be controversial.

[SackAttack]

I don't ever tip less than 15% unless there's a truly compelling reason, and I have only once ever refused to tip entirely.

You do not show up 5 hours late with cold pizza and an incomplete order, having not even done me the courtesy of calling to let me know that the driver blew out a tire and that it will be later than expected as a result.

No.

[Raiders Army]

Heh, no, pretty much nothing offends me. It's just that a perfectly good discussion on tipping had to take a dark turn, and now will probably turn into a flame war on if homosexuality is a choice or not. Simply because you decided to be a jackass, a condition that seems to be running rampant among too many members of this forum.
Not to bring this up further, but I don't think you read my posts closely enough...or perhaps I didn't write them well enough.

I did not want to turn it into a homosexuality flame war at all. I don't agree with his choices, but I can respect that. I don't see how he can't respect my choice to tip "poorly" (:rolleyes:) for service I deem less than acceptable. He said my position was indefensible. I took offense with that since that is my choice and my opinion. All I was saying was that my position is no less indefensible than his position on homosexuality.

I will not post any further since you think I'm a jackass about this.

[Tekneek]

You do not show up 5 hours late with cold pizza and an incomplete order, having not even done me the courtesy of calling to let me know that the driver blew out a tire and that it will be later than expected as a result.

Even then, why is it a cold pizza? A business that gives a damn about its customers writes off the original items and remakes the order. If it is going to be 5 hours late, you show up with a fresh order, a bunch of extras, and a coupon book for 5 more free pizzas. Your experience indicates a business that decided they didn't need you as a customer. Too bad they didn't just tell you that from the start so you could've called someone else instead.

[SackAttack]

Even then, why is it a cold pizza? A business that gives a damn about its customers writes off the original items and remakes the order.

That's what I would've thought, but apparently they only had the one other driver that night, and he had his own deliveries to make before the store closed, etc. No time to go back and have the orders that were beling delivered by the other driver remade, or so the story went.

Your experience indicates a business that decided they didn't need you as a customer. Too bad they didn't just tell you that from the start so you could've called someone else instead.

That's what I told him. I haven't ordered from that place since, and it's been two and a half years.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Do you also tip well for other things? The bellboy carrying your bag to your room? The taxicab driver? Your barber? If so, why? If not, why not?

Hadn't really thought about it that much but now that you bring it up, yeah I do.
The one that really jumped out was when you mentioned hair, because that's easily my biggest over-tip category by percentage. The "why" on that is really simple too -- having moved out here to Hooterville from Atlanta, I realize how much money I've saved in the difference in the price of a haircut over the past 10+ years. After routinely paying $40+, I get down here & it's like $7-$12 - basically I feel like they're underpricing their service, so I routinely tip them anywhere from 50% to $100%, which still leaves me saving money on the deal.

Same applies to the guy who does our yard & to the lady who helps keep our house clean, the percentage there isn't as high but there's a higher frequency there too, so the dollars work out pretty well for them.

About the only category where I'd say I don't overtip would be the various hotel staff (beyond the bellhops), I have notoriously poor "hotel luck" & usually find myself as the guy who is pissed off about something that was totally FUBAR, not the guy so happy he's tipping or overtipping.

[JeeberD]

California Pizza Kitchen.

www.cpk.com

Gotcha. I think we have some of those around here but I've never made it to one...

Jeeber put cum in my pasta before :(

But you told me you wanted the Specal Cream Sauce!

And no, I've never done anything dirty or bad to a rude guests food/drink. Trust me, I've been tempted, but I usually just kill them with kindness. Yeah, I'm a sucker... :(

when you guys are in a group going to dinner, how do you split the bill?


Split the bill so everyone gets their own check. But if you're going to do that be sure to let your server know when you first order. I know at some restaurants servers can split their own checks, but at the OG we have to find a manager or a trainer to do it for us. Stupid OG... :mad:


Waiters only make something like $2.50 an hour or something to that effect.


Like I said in the other thread, only $2.13 here in Texas...

What I hate is being told what I tip. The tip is already on my bill, for a party of 2-4 this is unacceptable. And, it is genreally your middle of the road places, Chillies, the olive Garden, Applebys, TGIFs, you know your chains, that always try and stick me with this. Your low rent Diners and high Scale Restaurants never put a tip on your bill. Why?

Huh? Do mean the gratuity added to large parties? Because that's pretty much standard in the business theses day...even in the smaller, non-chain restaurants.

Finally, Don't be afraid to be Rude. You know the old saying, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". Remember you the customer are totally in controll untill you pay. If something is not acceptable, you can always just leave. This is the one thing I have learned from always being on the road. Never rasie your voice, never argue, just calmly state exactly what you want and add that you are leaving immediatley if you don't get it.

Walking out is bullshit. If you have a problem and the server isn't willing to fix it, get the manager. I don't know about other restaurant chains, but at the OG management is basically required to do something if a guest complains. They'll either take food off the bill, give the guest a gift card for their next visit, or a combination of both. If a guest calls in to corporate and says that a manager didn't help them, the manager is in DEEP shit.


If they want their 18% madatory tip, eventhough the service was terrible, than can haul me into court to get it. In other words, "You will either remove it from my bill or I am leaving". Sometimes you have to be rude and explain to them that you, The Customer, are holding all the cards. Remember, like the spoiled brat with the football, if I don't like it, I can always just take my money and go home.

At the OG if a guest complains about the grat on their party because they felt service was sub-standard, the manager will take it off. You don't have to be an ass about it...


I was in Atlanta 2 years ago for Speech Nationals. We had just finished the awards ceremony, it was nearly 11:00 at night, and we wanted to find somewhere for the Arizona delegation to eat together. We found a little 24 hour diner attached to one of our hotels. Granted, we were a group of about 20 people, but we were willing to take over their outside patio, we had no expectation of all sitting at the same table, we wanted to sit and talk, and the place was pretty dead anyway. Service was miserable. One school had to wait 90 minutes for menus; 75% of our group never got drinks; meals were incorrectly prepared. Our server came out to see us twice, and both times just turned around and walked away. We have pictures of coaches drinking out of the water pitcher because they never received glasses. Then, at the end, the waitress brought out the check for Red Mountain High School. She had added a 25% tip onto the bill, and then she told the head coach that she could "leave the additional tip on the table."
Tracy asked her, "What additional tip?"
"The other money that you want to leave me."
"What do you mean? Service was horrible. In fact, I want to see your manager. This 25% is way too much, in my opinion."
The waitress put her hands on her hips and said, "You get charged on the bill, AND you leave me an additional tip. That's how we do things in Atlanta." Then she turned around and left. The manager was nowhere to be found.
Nobody left an additional tip that night...

That's ridiculous, dude. I've never heard of a grat being that high before. 25%? Crazy...I would have been pissed as well. No excuse at all for service that bad. And then demanding money on top of the grat? Ugh...it's bitches like that who give servers a bad rep.


I don't really have anything to add to this wonderfull thread that usually pops up about once every six months.

If you get shitty service you should expect a shitty tip. If you get good service and don't tip well then you are an ass and you shoudn't go out to eat. It is that simple.

Preach on, brother!

[JonInMiddleGA]

AZSpeechCoach -- just a WAG here, you were somewhere in the heart of downtown ATL weren't you?

[AZSpeechCoach]

Like in The War with Mr. Wizzle!


of all the places to get a Gordon Korman reference, I never thought it would be here :eek:

[korme]

when you guys are in a group going to dinner, how do you split the bill?

you put in what you order or split it up evenly among everyone + plus tip?

when i go out with friends, we split the bill evenly among all of us.
usually individual bills, individual tips

[John Galt]

I don't think you want to judge my values, pot.

Dola, and if you don't get the "pot" reference, it is because your homosexual tendencies are just as indefensible as my cheap tipping.

That's nice. Really nice. I call your cheapness on tipping "indefensible" and you see that as an excuse to post bigotted crap. Because I have "homosexual tendencies," I shouldn't "want to judge [your] values." I guess I'm too gay to ever offer an opinion on "values." If you can't see the difference between being cheap and being gay, then you are a much bigger fool than I ever imagined.

[QuikSand]

How many times do I have to tell you? Just because they serve beer at Volcanic Eruptions, that does not make it a resturant!

:D

Mrs. Q and I were having our usual chuckle at the name of that place yesterday - as we always do en route to Atlantic City.

Best. Stripclub. Name. Ever.

[HomerJSimpson]

Mrs. Q and I were having our usual chuckle at the name of that place yesterday - as we always do en route to Atlantic City.

Best. Stripclub. Name. Ever.


My favorite is a dump outside of Birmingham that is called "The Boobie Hatch."

[Passacaglia]

of all the places to get a Gordon Korman reference, I never thought it would be here :eek:

Gordon Korman rocks!

Bringing this thread back to topic...what about if you go to a restaurant and just get dessert? Or if you go to Denny's and just get coffee? In those cases, my tip % goes up a ton.

[jbmagic]

do you guys tip at buffets?

[Passacaglia]

do you guys tip at buffets?

Ooh, that's a good one. Places like Ponderosa. I know lurker's family gets into huge fights about that one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: buffets: that's really case by case, if it's strictly self-serve other than the drinks, it's $1 per person tip for me. Above & beyond the call, or more than just drinks, then I'll get closer to the 15% standard.

[Bearcat729]

do you guys tip at buffets?


I remember reading at Golden Corral one day that they only pay their servers the tipped minimum wage ($2.13 or so) so when I go there I usually tip a few dollars.

[Tekneek]

re: buffets: that's really case by case, if it's strictly self-serve other than the drinks, it's $1 per person tip for me. Above & beyond the call, or more than just drinks, then I'll get closer to the 15% standard.

We do the same thing with that. Only 'buffet style' place we go to is Sweet Tomatoes.

[stevew]

The servers at a buffet place make the same wages as servers at a "normal" restaurant do. So they should still receive a fair tip. I usually leave something like 5 on 25(Our usual bill at ponderosa/golden Corral), but i could see leaving a lot less if the service was lousy. Sometimes our toddler makes a mess, even when i clean up after her, they are still gonna have to hokie-vacuum it, so i make sure to leave a fair tip.

[Ryan S]

If I get bad service I won't leave a tip. If the service is good I will leave a 10% tip and if it is excellent I will leave a 20% tip.

However in the UK waiters have a minimum salary of almost $10/hour, so I don't feel guilty about giving them no tips if they give me terrible service.

[Tekneek]

The servers at a buffet place make the same wages as servers at a "normal" restaurant do.

That is not an absolute.

[stevew]

That is not an absolute.

Yeah, my bad, i should have said "tend to make the same" wages.

[Airhog]

Some more thoughts about this issue. Why are the consumers forced to pay the difference of the wages of the wait staff? If they paid their servers a decent wage, say 8 bucks an hour, how much would the cost of my food go up?

It seems to me this is one way to keep food prices lower. They can make more money off the meal, since they pay less for help.

The big issue for me, is that I just don't like tipping. I would much rather see a server get paid more than minimum wages, pay more to eat there, and feel like I only need to tip if the service was expceptional.

[Eaglesfan27]

I usually go with 1 dollar/person at a buffet. If there is exceptional service of some sort, I'll tip more.

[cuervo72]

Does the waiter work harder? Certainly. Let's take two tables in the same restaurant. Say Table one is Airhog and Ms. Airhog, and table two is Ardent and Ms. Ardent. Table one (Airhog) orders the exact same entrees as table two. However, Table one also orders an appetizer and two mixed drinks. Therefore, table one has a bill that is about $20 higher than table two.

Vince...what about this scenario though:

2 couples go to the local diner (which is where I ate today with the kids). Couple A orders a couple of $5.95 sandwiches with fries, and two waters. Couple B orders a couple of the fish specials for $12.95 with veggie and potato. Approximately the same level of service, but radically different bills, no? Is the server stiffed by Couple A just by the fact that they ordered cheap-ass meals, but still tipped 15%?

[RPI-Fan]

Vince...what about this scenario though:

2 couples go to the local diner (which is where I ate today with the kids). Couple A orders a couple of $5.95 sandwiches with fries, and two waters. Couple B orders a couple of the fish specials for $12.95 with veggie and potato. Approximately the same level of service, but radically different bills, no? Is the server stiffed by Couple A just by the fact that they ordered cheap-ass meals, but still tipped 15%?

I think that it just gives a general guideline. Over the course of a lifetime, you'll probably reward better service (doing harder work) a proper amount if you do 15%.

[RPI-Fan]

BTW, funny waiter story:

Went to Macaroni Grille this w/e, and when the guy tried to write his name on the table he realized there were no crayons there. So he said "Someone took my crayons on me, but I'll just go take some from that table next to us" -- no big deal. A few minutes later, another party gets seated at that table.

I hear him go through his whole opening schbiel, and then he busts out the EXACT same crayon line. That took a few % points off his tip.:)

[Joe]

All the buffets around here are self serve/self get your own drink, so I don't tip. When I go somewhere that has servers that bring stuff like drinks and other shit, then I'll tip a few bucks.

[cuervo72]

Sure, I mean when *I* am the cheap-ass ordering the $5 lunch, I'll kick in a little more, as if I ordered an average priced meal. But I don't know if everyone tips on level of service.

(you can also look at this conversely - the couple with the expensive meals aren't really getting a greater level of service than the other couple, but if both tipped say, $1.50 a person, couple B would be skewered)

[RPI-Fan]

Sure, I mean when *I* am the cheap-ass ordering the $5 lunch, I'll kick in a little more, as if I ordered an average priced meal. But I don't know if everyone tips on level of service.

(you can also look at this conversely - the couple with the expensive meals aren't really getting a greater level of service than the other couple, but if both tipped say, $1.50 a person, couple B would be skewered)

This is why I pretty much totally stick to 15% with only 2% variation based on service. I figure about half the people will average 10% and half the people 20%. So if I'm right in the middle, I'm not rewarding poor service or ignoring good service.

[jamesUMD]

I think the tipping works better because it gives more incentive to:
1. Give better service
2. Saves the restaurants money (if they are not busy and they have 5 waiters on the clock they aren't paying them to stand around).

[RPI-Fan]

I think the tipping works better because it gives more incentive to:
1. Give better service
2. Saves the restaurants money (if they are not busy and they have 5 waiters on the clock they aren't paying them to stand around).

Your 2nd point also ties into #1... because they don't have to be understaffed, people get better service.

Great example of this (well, the opposite situation):

At the store I work there are no commission or tipping practices... as such, the company is paying every person's full salary when they're working. Since they have to shell out the $$, they basically want to have "enough to get by"... what that means is they probably have about 50% fewer employee hours than is necessary to provide "good to very good" service at all times...

So in the end, there is a pretty good chance the customers end up receiving "below average to good" service most of the time, instead of "good to very good" service most of the time.

[Vince]

Vince...what about this scenario though:

2 couples go to the local diner (which is where I ate today with the kids). Couple A orders a couple of $5.95 sandwiches with fries, and two waters. Couple B orders a couple of the fish specials for $12.95 with veggie and potato. Approximately the same level of service, but radically different bills, no? Is the server stiffed by Couple A just by the fact that they ordered cheap-ass meals, but still tipped 15%?
An excellent point, and one in which I'm certain either case could be argued.



As a server, it's always slightly a bummer when someone orders water. Sodas are only about $2 ($2.29 at my store), but even with a party of two, that's $4, and an expected extra $0.60 in tip. If you have a bigger party (say, 6 people) who all order waters, that's $12 and an expected $1.80 in tip less, just because of the beverages. If you want to take into account the opportunity cost of a lost beer ($4 each) or mixed drink ($6-10 each), it's an even greater divergence.



The point of that little diversion was that as a server, you don't get upset when someone orders water. Well, servers always have something to complain about (I've found that servers, myself included, much to my chagrin, are some of the whiniest people in the world), and in a party of 8 or more (where there's the auto-gratuity of 18% at my store) when the whole party orders water, that's almost a valid complaint, because you're missing out on a pretty decent chunk of change.

I don't know a single server that would complain about Table A over Table B if both left the same percentage tip. On the contrary, it's more likely that someone would simply be excited that Table B in fact ordered the special. And a good server knows what the high-price items are, and they tend to become their favorite meals...at least that's what they tell their tables. :)

I believe I'm skirting the actual point of your post though, so let's see if I can tackle that.

I think the main point is that the server is working just as hard on Table A (two entrees, two drinks, etc) as on Table B (two entrees, two drinks, etc), yet Table B will have a radically different total than Table A -- should Table B be forced to tip the server more simply because they ordered the more expensive dinner? I am going to say yes.

Why?

Because the percentage-based tipping system is flawed. Based upon the assumption that the tip is intended for ammount/quality of work rendered, Table B should have no responsibility to tip more than Table A. However, because of the social institution of the percentage-based tip, Table B has a 'responsibility' to tip more (They aren't required, but I can't come up with a better word right now, so sue me. Anyway...). I think the idea of the percentage based tip is to save servers who actually do bust their butt on tables who DO order more food, and therefore they are justified in needing a higher tip. The case in which you mentioned, when two tables' bills differ greatly because of differently priced entrees, is a rare one, and the actual difference in bill isn't too great, especially when you get into fine dining. While a $5.95 plate versus a $12.95 plate is a tremendous difference (more than 100%), a 'cheap' vegetarian pasta at $18.95 is not quite as drastic a change from a $33.00 steak at a nicer restaurant.

[warning: personal opinion ahead, not defined fact]

Basically, the difference in price is never going to be so great that the person ordering the expensive stuff is going to be really 'screwed' by a 15% tip. Conversely, if the percentage-based tipping system were ignored, a server could be tremendously 'screwed' by a table of 15 who ordered up $200 in food and left him $5.

[/personal opinion]

[RPI-Fan]

Because the percentage-based tipping system is flawed. Based upon the assumption that the tip is intended for ammount/quality of work rendered, Table B should have no responsibility to tip more than Table A. However, because of the social institution of the percentage-based tip, Table B has a 'responsibility' to tip more (They aren't required, but I can't come up with a better word right now, so sue me. Anyway...). I think the idea of the percentage based tip is to save servers who actually do bust their butt on tables who DO order more food, and therefore they are justified in needing a higher tip. The case in which you mentioned, when two tables' bills differ greatly because of differently priced entrees, is a rare one, and the actual difference in bill isn't too great, especially when you get into fine dining. While a $5.95 plate versus a $12.95 plate is a tremendous difference (more than 100%), a 'cheap' vegetarian pasta at $18.95 is not quite as drastic a change from a $33.00 steak at a nicer restaurant.

Thanks for wrapping up my point: It's the system that everybody uses, which is the only thing that makes it work.

[Joe]

I always order water because soda is nasty :)

[cuervo72]

I can dig it. I guess that was part of my point - the 15% system *is* somewhat flawed. But, you're right I guess it does offer some sort of "protection".

It also shows me that I'm in a completely different dining class than others - I can't remember the last time we paid $200 for food somewhere. In fact, my wife reminded me of my first year working for my current company (this is some 5 years ago), and my boss gave me a "voucher" for a $150 meal. We never used it, and without going down to some fancy place in DC we wouldn't come CLOSE to spending that much. And with an infant, we weren't comfortable with getting a sitter or anything anyway. She wanted me to ask if we could use it on groceries instead. :D


Oh, and $2.29 for a soda? Seems a bit much. But then CPK always struck me as a place (no offense here) that was in that "fancy" chain range, where you get higher prices not for better food (ok, maybe the food is a little better, but heck, if I'm full, I'm happy pretty much) but for "atmosphere" and a trumped up trend factor (which leads to ungodly waits...). Places like the Cheescake Factory, Rainforest Cafe, etc.


(I'm an odd bird. I'm cheap with my meals, but not cheap with my tips. Go figure.)

[cuervo72]

Dola - I see that $200 was for a big group, misread that part the first time.

[Vince]

Oh, and $2.29 for a soda? Seems a bit much. But then CPK always struck me as a place (no offense here) that was in that "fancy" chain range, where you get higher prices not for better food (ok, maybe the food is a little better, but heck, if I'm full, I'm happy pretty much) but for "atmosphere" and a trumped up trend factor (which leads to ungodly waits...). Places like the Cheescake Factory, Rainforest Cafe, etc.
I agree. I think CPK's food is definitely overpriced. But see, you get into that problem. The food IS better, but is it really all that much better? I think that if I didn't work there, I'd never eat there. If I wanted 'nice food,' I'd make the jump all the way up to really nice food, and pay $20 per plate.

[cuervo72]

You're lucky then that enough folks are stupid enough to pay for trendy. :D

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree. I think CPK's food is definitely overpriced. But see, you get into that problem. The food IS better, but is it really all that much better? I think that if I didn't work there, I'd never eat there. If I wanted 'nice food,' I'd make the jump all the way up to really nice food, and pay $20 per plate.
not to tangent this thread totally, but i ate there the other night and i agree. ordered the sweet n spicy sausage and peppers pizza and was VERY dissapointed that it was like 95% peppers and onions and just a tiny lil bit of sausage. I get more sausage for less price at my local cheaper pizza place, and the taste is better too IMO. It just...wasn't all that good. And my appetizer, the cheese+herb bread with the chopped up tomatos...the cheesy bread stuff was not at all hot. frankly i wasn't impressed, and i don't think right now as it stands i'd go back. no offense vince

[Daimyo]

My wife and I go to CPK maybe once a month or once every two months. If it was me by myself I would never go there (paying $2.50 for a coke is against my religion). However, my wife hates regular pizza so if I want pizza, CPK is about the only place available to me. The nice thing about it is that even through the food is overpriced the portions are large. A table of four adults can pretty easily get by on three pizzas I think. They also have free refills of italian soda which is nice when you want something more than water, but aren't in a cola mood (although you have to pay something like $3 for it).

I admit I feel pretty stupid living in Chicago and going to CPK, but that's part of the sacrifice for marriage I guess...

[st.cronin]

I have pretty much stopped going out to eat. I realize this is not on-topic, but pretty much every place is a rip-off. I can do a better job at home at a fraction of the cost and with not much effort.

[kcchief19]

Vince...what about this scenario though:

2 couples go to the local diner (which is where I ate today with the kids). Couple A orders a couple of $5.95 sandwiches with fries, and two waters. Couple B orders a couple of the fish specials for $12.95 with veggie and potato. Approximately the same level of service, but radically different bills, no? Is the server stiffed by Couple A just by the fact that they ordered cheap-ass meals, but still tipped 15%? This is obviously a matter of personal perception, but this example would lead me to conlude that a 15 percent tip custom is flawed in favor of the cheaper consumer and works against the server, which is the exact opposite of the question/assumption proposed at the beginning of this discussion.

Flat percentage fees are never necessarily "fair" -- two people with different incomes will pay different taxes, but the person paying more taxes doesn't necessarily receive a greater amount of service. But as noted above, it's the only way the system really works.

[Samdari]

As a server, it's always slightly a bummer when someone orders water. Sodas are only about $2 ($2.29 at my store), but even with a party of two, that's $4, and an expected extra $0.60 in tip. If you have a bigger party (say, 6 people) who all order waters, that's $12 and an expected $1.80 in tip less, just because of the beverages. If you want to take into account the opportunity cost of a lost beer ($4 each) or mixed drink ($6-10 each), it's an even greater divergence.




I HATE this perception. I drink water with meals. Always, even at home where drinking something else will not increase the amount of tip I have to leave. The only exception to that is chicken wings, with which I'll drink beer. But, in general, I cannot stand the taste of alcohol or sugary soda with my food. Sometimes, I will have an alcoholic beverage that I will consume before dinner, but when its me and the Mrs., that is not real common.

But, I am a pretty generous tipper. in general. My minimum for all but the worst service is 20%, I generally round up to the nearest dollar from there, and I always leave a minimum of $5, no matter what the cost of the meal.

Still, servers don't know that before they take my order. They almost invariably roll their eyes when I order water with my dinner. I am not doing it to be cheap, I am just ordering what I want (which I do regardless of cost) I will tip you better on the same meals than people who order a soda with that meal. Give me a chance.

[Warhammer]

My favorite is a dump outside of Birmingham that is called "The Boobie Hatch."

Was that the old Boobie Trap, or was it the old Sugar Shack?

[Warhammer]

Well, "the standard" is 15 percent for adequate service, less than that if you feel the service was in adequate, more if you think it was exceptional.

Honestly, if you get bad service as often as you say you do, I think it might be because you have a tell -- people who wait tables aren't idiots, and many of them over the years learn to pick up on nonverbal cues and behaviors. If they profile you based on your behavior or attitude as a bad tipper, you may get what your ask for.

I gotta agree with this. When I used to haul golf clubs back in high school and college, it was easy to pick up those who tipped and those who didn't. When I became supervisor, one of the members came up and asked why his sutff never was cleaned as well as another member's clubs. I pointed out that the other guy tipped well, and he rarely if ever tipped. I told him that if the guys got a little something for what this guy put the employees through he wouldn't have to bitch and complain about stuff, etc. (the guy was a salesman so I thought it was safe to tell him this, he would understand). Sure enough, he started tipping, saw the results and became one of our best tippers.

[sabotai]

Places like the Cheescake Factory, Rainforest Cafe, etc.
I went to the Rainforest Cafe once. It was nice to have something to look at while we waited an eternity for our food....

[gstelmack]

On Water: it's the healthiest thing to drink. Why should I have to impair my health to not impair your tip? I hope wait staff wouldn't get upset that I ordered water.

On Buffets: regardless of how much or what they bring me, I always leave a tip because of the mess my 2-1/2 year old is leaving behind for them to clean up. I'm not tipping 15%+ because they don't do all that much for me, but cleaning up after us is worth something at least.

[hhiipp]

As a server, it's always slightly a bummer when someone orders water. Sodas are only about $2 ($2.29 at my store), but even with a party of two, that's $4, and an expected extra $0.60 in tip. If you have a bigger party (say, 6 people) who all order waters, that's $12 and an expected $1.80 in tip less, just because of the beverages. If you want to take into account the opportunity cost of a lost beer ($4 each) or mixed drink ($6-10 each), it's an even greater divergence.


Water w/ lemon please. Not only do I save money on my dinner, but it also tastes better and is better for me.

[Lathum]

On the water thing...

Most servers don't care if one or 2 people order water, but when a family of 5-6 people or a group of people all order water it is pretty obvious they are cheap.

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: water -- some years back I might have gone along with the "cheap" diagnosis, but given the trendy factor that water/water-with-lemon took on over the past decade or so, I really don't buy it as an accurate tell anymore.

Thinking back to a couple of weekends ago, I believe I was the only person out of 6 who wasn't drinking water with the meal & that was a tab that ended up around $250 - $300, so I don't really think this applies anymore.

Of the six, 3 were dieting (at least in their minds), 1 was a health issue (he's on caffeine restriction or something) and I think the 5th water person just parroted what everyone else was ordering.

Hell, my 7 /yo orders water w/lemon occasionally. I worry about him for doing that, but he still does it from time to time.

[sabotai]

On water: .....how can you eat something and drink water? Seriously, whenever I tried doing that, it just made my food feel soggy and tasteless.

[rkmsuf]

On water: .....how can you eat something and drink water? Seriously, whenever I tried doing that, it just made my food feel soggy and tasteless.

I guess if you eat like Kobayashi.

[Butter_of_69]

On the water thing...

Most servers don't care if one or 2 people order water, but when a family of 5-6 people or a group of people all order water it is pretty obvious they are cheap.

Or maybe $2.50 for a freaking glass (or two) of Pepsi which I can go to the store and get about 8 glasses of for $1 is a bit overpriced.

I'm a good tipper, but the way soda prices have increased at restaurants over the past several years is very annoying.

I like going out to eat, but I am also on a very tight budget. If I can save $5 on drinks so I can buy a movie ticket for my 5 year old, I'm gonna do it.

And I always tip 20% for decent to good service, and sometimes more for outstanding service. So, no, I'm not a bad tipper.

[hhiipp]

On water: .....how can you eat something and drink water? Seriously, whenever I tried doing that, it just made my food feel soggy and tasteless.
Same thng could be said about any beverage from someone else who prefers a different drink with their dinner. . .like omg how can you drink coke, pepsi is so much better! I like water, you like you drink, Fred likes his drink, we all have different tastes.

[DaddyTorgo]

on the water thing. I too am a ferocious water drinker all the time. I probably drink 7-8 20 oz glasses of water a day actually. Often when I go out to eat, if the waiter doesn't seem rushed and seems to actually take an interest I'll clue them in to this...ie: "Can I have a glass of water. Actually can you just bring me a whole pitcher or at least 3-4 glasses? It'll save you trips. And don't worry, I'll leave you a lil something extra for it."

works like a charm everytime. On the other hand, if the service is extremely bad (has only happened once to my memory i think) I have no problem making them go back and forth 3-4 times for water, or making them literally stand there while I empty glass after glass into my gut.

[Tekneek]

On the water thing...

Most servers don't care if one or 2 people order water, but when a family of 5-6 people or a group of people all order water it is pretty obvious they are cheap.

Right. Selecting the healthiest beverage they offer is "cheap", eh? A waiter like that can go fuck themselves.

[albionmoonlight]

Re: Water.

It may screw over the waiter, but drinks are also the most overpriced thing on the menu. $1.50 for 2c worth of sugar and fizzy water.

[st.cronin]

I always tip 20% or up to the next dollar. I do not think it is right, or fair that most servers only have to claim something like 12% of their sales as income. There's a serious gap between what they claim for tax purposes, and what they actually make.

Just caught this now. This is no longer true for most servers. The law says servers are required to claim ALL tip income - but, as you say, cash tips are not tracked, and often go undeclared. However, most people who go out pay either with credit or debit cards, and those tips are tracked and reported.

Very few servers make significant tax-free income anymore.

[Lathum]

Right. Selecting the healthiest beverage they offer is "cheap", eh? A waiter like that can go fuck themselves.
Work in the industy for 1 DAY and you will understand what I mean.

[Lathum]

dola-
Just like any stereotype it isn't true for everyone, but there is a reason why the stereotype exists. I would venture to say that 7 of 10 people who come into Olive Garden, order water and the never ending pasta bowl are gonna leave a shitty tip.

I don't work at the Olive Garden, I am just guessing that, I've worked in the industry for 13 years and belive me when I tell you %70 of people who just get water leave a shitty tip, you start to see a pattern really quickly.

This is a fact.

[dawgfan]

dola-
Just like any stereotype it isn't true for everyone, but there is a reason why the stereotype exists. I would venture to say that 7 of 10 people who come into Olive Garden, order water and the never ending pasta bowl are gonna leave a shitty tip.

I don't work at the Olive Garden, I am just guessing that, I've worked in the industry for 13 years and belive me when I tell you %70 of people who just get water leave a shitty tip, you start to see a pattern really quickly.

This is a fact.

That may be, but the fact is that many people order water simply because that's what they prefer to drink. You might assume people are doing it to be cheap, but you will be wrong some of the time, and if you assume people are ordering water to be cheap and don't provide the same level of service you would otherwise, you will be creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

My drink orders vary - sometimes it's wine, sometimes beer, sometimes iced tea and sometimes water. It all depends on the meal and what I feel like drinking at the time. If I'm ordering water only I don't leave any less of a tip because of it (I generally tip around 20%). But if you assume I'm a cheap-ass because I ordered water and don't serve me well, you better believe I'll downgrade that tip in a hurry.

[JeeberD]

I order water when I go out... :o

...but then again, I tip very well, so it's not a big deal.

[Solecismic]

I always drink caffeine-free diet coke at home. Most restaurants don't have it. So I drink water. I hate the dirty looks servers give me when I say "I'll just have water" (emphasis imagined). The dirty look won't affect their tip, but probably does affect whether or not I'll come back. I'm a diner of least resistence. I hate dining out, if I have even a slightly negative experience, I'm probably staying away from that place for a long time.

[gstelmack]

dola-
Just like any stereotype it isn't true for everyone, but there is a reason why the stereotype exists. I would venture to say that 7 of 10 people who come into Olive Garden, order water and the never ending pasta bowl are gonna leave a shitty tip.

I don't work at the Olive Garden, I am just guessing that, I've worked in the industry for 13 years and belive me when I tell you %70 of people who just get water leave a shitty tip, you start to see a pattern really quickly.

This is a fact.
But being in a service industry, it's your job to provide a high level of service to ALL of those customers. If you don't, you're pissing off the 30% who did nothing to you but order a healthy beverage. As dawgfan said, if you don't, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, and either those 30% will never come back again, quickly turning it into 100% as you've chased off all the non-cheapskates, or those people will become so disillusioned that you'll turn them into cheapskates.

I learned a long time ago to smile unless the customer is being abusive. Working at a McDonald's drive-thru, lady pulls up, and asks what the price of something was. I was tired, long day, and I had to leave the drive-thru station to check the prices, so I told her where it was on the board and she should be able to check herself. She responded that she was staring right at it but the price was missing. Sure enough, the board outside was messed up. I apologized and learned a lesson.

Now the guys that ordered a "quarter-pounder with no pickles" and got mad that we didn't have it ready the instant they reached the window (it takes a couple of minutes to make a quarter-pounder) are another story entirely. Fine, make it a special order so you get a fresh one, but be just a BIT patient when you do so. We're TRYING to satisfy your request...

[Lathum]

That may be, but the fact is that many people order water simply because that's what they prefer to drink. You might assume people are doing it to be cheap, but you will be wrong some of the time, and if you assume people are ordering water to be cheap and don't provide the same level of service you would otherwise, you will be creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

My drink orders vary - sometimes it's wine, sometimes beer, sometimes iced tea and sometimes water. It all depends on the meal and what I feel like drinking at the time. If I'm ordering water only I don't leave any less of a tip because of it (I generally tip around 20%). But if you assume I'm a cheap-ass because I ordered water and don't serve me well, you better believe I'll downgrade that tip in a hurry.
and you should, I am not justifying bad service because someone orders water, I am just staring that 70% of the people who order water are cheap.

And BTW, my company sends me all over the world to train servers and bartenders, so I know a little something about the industry

[Vince]

See, that's the problem is that it is for the most part a perceived notion that someone is cheap because they order water.

I don't drink soda. I drink water. Constantly. I probably go through at least a gallon a day. When I go out, it is rarely, if ever, different. I may have a glass of wine, I may have some beer, I may get a root beer float. But 9 out of 10 times, I drink water. I am one of the least 'cheap' people on the planet -- if there's something I like, I get it. I oftentimes will tip more than 30%. I'm happy to pay for my friend's meal just for the hell of it. An order of water is a terrible indication of a person's 'cheapness.'

My post wasn't meant to show that waiters hate it when someone orders water (though lots of them do), just that from an expected income standpoint, a person ordering water is a let-down, if only because the expected bill (and therefore expected tip) is lower. NOT because they think that the customer is cheap for ordering water. Though, again, some (maybe most) think that is the case.

[albionmoonlight]

It's interesting for me to be reading this thread as one who worked at a large law firm. Law firms, as you know, live and die by their client lists. And lawyers have lots of direct client contact. And, due to the obsene rates we charge and the highly competitve nature of the business, our clients feel like they have every right to demand the impossible from us while treating us like shit.

But we can never give less than 100% with a smile, because once you piss off a client, it is never coming back.

Resturants are a little different, I imagine, because so many of them are chain now. As a server, you can be a bit of a dickhead and you probably won't get your customers to swear off Ruby Tuesdays forever. And you will always be getting new people to come in because they recognize your name and have been to other Ruby Tuesdays before.

Not saying that servers have it easy (far from it). But I am saying that it is interesting for me to read about the idea of possibly not giving 100% to a customer because you know that the customer will be a bad tipper. For people who work for non-chain, client intensive businesses, pissing off a customer will lose you more than a tip--it will lose you the customer for life.

On a related note, what, if anything, do servers think of customers who cannot make up their mind, ask for hints, and hem and haw before ordering? Whenever I see a friend do that, I always think that inside the waiter must be doing some serious eye rolling.

[Anthony]

i don't label myself as a "very good tipper". my motto in these situations is "it's not my job to help this guy pay for his kid's college". just cuz you're making poor wages doesn't entitle you to be compensated by "pity money". 20% of the total bill is sufficient. i'm not looking to make anyone rich, i'm just looking to give no more and no less than the norm.

[JeeberD]

On a related note, what, if anything, do servers think of customers who cannot make up their mind, ask for hints, and hem and haw before ordering? Whenever I see a friend do that, I always think that inside the waiter must be doing some serious eye rolling.

It depends. If it's really busy and I have other things I can be doing it's very frustrating to stand there while someone stares at the menu. Often I'll tell them to take some time and I'll come back, but they say that they'll figure it out in just a second...and then they stare at the menu for another five minutes.

But if it's slow and I don't have any other tables (or if they have everything they need) then I don't mind waiting on a guest to make up their mind or help them pick a wine...