Enigma2 Puzzle #2

[enigma2]

The Onion Puzzle

Once you have peeled the onion, you will know the question. Only then will you find the answer.


17 8 1 14 - 19 5 1 12 - 4 9 4 - 7 5 f 12 7 5 - 17 1 13 8 9 e 7 14 f e - 3 1 12 16 5 12 - 4 9 5 -

17 f 8 - 19 e 1 d - 13 5 c 4 e 1 3 - 5 12 1 - e f - 13 9 8 14 - 13 15 f d 1 6 - 19 1 4 8 14 12 9 2 -

5 b 1 3 - 7 1a b 4 - b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 -

15 c - 15 b 7 - b 7 a 6 10 17 6 - 15 11 6 3 - 15 b 9 3 15 4 - 7 16 1a 7 2 - 15 16 18 d 4 - a 6 11 -

a 15 16 - a 15 2 2 d 18 - 17 d 1a - 10 15 2 15 12 16 - 10 d 7 1a 16 - a 15 14 a 1a 17 15 14 -

a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14

[albionmoonlight]

Just a Monday Morning bump by a guy with no clue.

Maybe something to do with Onion.com?

[mhass]

I'm assuming that there's a substitution cipher up there somewhere since none of them are higher than 26.

Next.

[albionmoonlight]

dola--

some more thoughts-- a quick glance indicates that all of the numbers are below 20. All of the letters are "below" f. Maybe something to do with musical notes? Hexidecimal math? A straight up cypher?

[QuikSand]

Methinks it's just a cipher... numbers 1-20 plus first six letters connect to the 26 letters of the alphabet.

I'm hoping the "1a" was intended to have a spece in the middle, and be "1" followed by "a" -- otherwise, there's trouble with the simple theory.

[QuikSand]

this coule be as simple as 1=a, 2=b, etc. There's a 3-letter word 4-9-4, which could easily be "d-i-d" which would follow that logic.

[QuikSand]

Okay, it looks like the substitution might be simple to a point, then somehow interrupted by the a-f letters (maybe just scattered in there somehow?).

First word ... looks to end with -h-a-n, but the 17 would connect to "q" which doesn't make sense. We'd need to push it back by 3 spaces to make it a "t" which would seem to work better (but still not very good to open a sentence... bad grammar in ciphers can be a killer... crossing fingers).

[QuikSand]

The first word... if there is somehow a jump of 6 added to the first and last letters, we get "w-h-a-t" which sounds good.

I'm thinking the cipher is 1-10, a-f, 11-20, in that order, representing the letters a-z.

[QuikSand]

Duh, just hex. Talk about finding the back door.

[Radii]

Duh, just hex. Talk about finding the back door.

Just the first line... then something changes.

[mhass]

I'm hoping the "1a" was intended to have a spece in the middle, and be "1" followed by "a" -- otherwise, there's trouble with the simple theory.
That shows up quite a bit to be an error.

[QuikSand]

That shows up quite a bit to be an error.

Agreed. When I wrote that, I had only noticed the first instance. If it's hex, then 1a would equal 27, right? Wonder if that might be a utility symbol - for things like apostrophes, hyphens, and the like. (Though the placement admittedly doesn't seem perfact for the stuff I'm thinking of)

[Radii]

Agreed. When I wrote that, I had only noticed the first instance. If it's hex, then 1a would equal 27, right? Wonder if that might be a utility symbol - for things like apostrophes, hyphens, and the like.


I have 1a being 26, so that seems to work perfectly

[Radii]

I had visions of solving this one but I think I'll have to just push things along a bit instead.

Using straight hex substitution like quiksand suggested (1=a, 2=b, a=j, b=k, 10=p, 11=Q, 19=Y, 1a=Z... fill in the blanks counting that way)

The first line:


17 8 1 14 - 19 5 1 12 - 4 9 4 - 7 5 f 12 7 5 - 17 1 13 8 9 e 7 14 f e - 3 1 12 16 5 12 - 4 9 5 -


Works out to "What year did George Washington Carver die"

The answer to that is 1943.

However, using the same straight hex substitution on the second line, I get:

Woh ynad seldnac era no siht suomaf yadhtrib

That may need to be doublechecked, but I think I am pretty much on there. Either each word is an anagram or the letters could be shifted? Or the answer to the first one is supposed to tell us how the cipher changes for the second one?

[Radii]

dola, well crap, I made a mistake in one of those words above on the second one :P

[mhass]

Woh ynad seldnac era no siht suomaf yadhtrib
Who ____ candles are on this famous birthday


Edit: or "How" ____ candles . . .

Probably "many"

[albionmoonlight]

Who ____ candles are on this famous birthday


Edit: or "How" ____ candles . . .

Probably "many"
GWC died at 79 years old.

[Lonnie]

The first word on the third line goes with the second line. It is e k a c which is cake and completes the question. I think it changes again after that.

[Radii]

The first word on the third line goes with the second line. It is e k a c which is cake and completes the question. I think it changes again after that.

Yeah. i am totally lost after that. Hopefully someone smarter than I will come up with something else :D

[QuikSand]

So, starting with word two of line three, it seems to be a new cipher.

7 1a b 4 - b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 -

I tried the hex-in-reverse, but got "UAQX" for the first word, which didn't ring a bell for me. Forward is "GXKD" which also seemed not so good.

Perhaps the number 79 fits into this somehow? A shift of 79 letters? Perhaps a +1 cipher? (79 mod 26 = 1) GXKD becomes... uh... HYLE. Is that a word? -1 gives us FWJC, which also seems worthless.

[QuikSand]

7 1a b 4

Four-letter words that would make sense as the start of a new sentence here, given the context:

WHAT
WHEN
TAKE

...anyone have anything else?


- 6 16 - ... - 6 7 -

You also have two 2-letter words, both apparently starting with the same letter. Best candiates seem like:

IS / IN
OF / ON
AS / AT / AN

Incidentally, none of these words has consecutive letters, as might be suggested by -6 7- if this were a simple, direct cipher.

A +3 cipher would give you an "I" from the number 6. But a +3 turns our first word into "JANG" which also fails the smell test. If the puzzle involved JANG, I just won't solve it.

[Huckleberry]

IS / IN
OF / ON
AS / AT / AN

Incidentally, none of these words has consecutive letters, as might be suggested by -6 7- if this were a simple, direct cipher.
I won't be much use here, but "ON" has consecutive letters, in reverse of course.

[Radii]

I got basically where QS is when I gave up for a bit this morning. For the two letter words I wrote every possible combination and got nothing of any use.

I believe I found a +13 would give you SI (is backwards) for oneof the two letter words, but +13 gave me garbage everywhere else.

I also took the first word (GZKD I think?) and did +1 through +26 on it and came up very empty even when looking for reasonable anagrams.

I paid special attention to +17 and +16 (1943.. 1+9+4+3 and 79, 7+9) and got nothing useful anywhere.

Just brainstorming here, as perhaps somethign I've tried will trigger an idea in someone else.

[QuikSand]

(GZKD I think?) Correct, of course.

as perhaps somethign I've tried will trigger an idea in someone else. I'm hoping the same.

[Lonnie]

I tried +1 to +25 and reversed the alphabet and did +1 to +25, didn't see anything worth while on the first couple of words.

[enigma2]

Remember folks, this is the onion puzzle. Just think of an onion as you try to solve this puzzle.

[Lonnie]

I am thinking of an onion, it's making me cry.

[QuikSand]

Remember folks, this is the onion puzzle. Just think of an onion as you try to solve this puzzle.

So maybe the Carver references continue?

[cuervo72]

I have no experience with solving cyphers at all, but perhaps the first line is a cypher for the second, which is a cypher for the third, etc? Just working off of the "onion" idea, where the puzzle would seem to have layers.

[QuikSand]

b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 -

15 c - 15 b 7 - b 7 a 6 10 17 6 - 15 11 6 3 - 15 b 9 3 15 4 - 7 16 1a 7 2 - 15 16 18 d 4 - a 6 11 -

a 15 16 - a 15 2 2 d 18 - 17 d 1a - 10 15 2 15 12 16 - 10 d 7 1a 16 - a 15 14 a 1a 17 15 14 -

a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14

So, I was hoping to find something that might match "CARVER" here -- the "15 3 13 6 15 13" looked promising at first, but doesn't hold up of course.

[QuikSand]

I have no experience with solving cyphers at all, but perhaps the first line is a cypher for the second, which is a cypher for the third, etc? Just working off of the "onion" idea, where the puzzle would seem to have layers.

Okay, let's say that the second sentence does not refer to GWC at all. After all, we got a reference to his death, not to his birth or birthday, necessarily.

Is there something in the first sentence that might help lead us to reversing the lettering in the second? (I don't see it, I fear) But if so, then the answer to the "birthday cake" clue might be something other than 79 - maybe it's someone else's cake entirely? (Famous birthday cake generally? Famous birthday party in 1943? I got nothing...)

[cuervo72]

I dunno. Carver died January 5, maybe that's the birthday of someone famous (and how old would they be in 1943)?

I think maybe I should leave this cyphering stuff to the experts. :)

[cuervo72]

Sigh...or maybe I won't.

"b 7 a 6 10" appears in two of the lines, once by itself, once with two additional letters. Maybe the letters could be "er", "es", "ed", or some other 2-letter suffix?

Carver also seems to be very related to the fact that this is Black History Month...just to keep that in mind.

[Radii]

I need to look at this in the morning without thinking to myself:

"Onions have LAYERS. Ogres have LAYERS. So Ogres, are like Onions."

[Radii]

So if it's some sort of layered puzzle, the first clue was straight hex substitution. The second one, we figured out without the help of the first one... it was straight hex and the words were anagrams.

So my questions are:

Was there something in the first question tolead us to the next layer in the 2nd question? If we can figure that out, will it help us figure out how to solve the 3rd one?

Is there some sort of a natural "layer" that would come after straight hex substitution, followed by hex + anagrams of each word that could help us decipher the 3rd one?

For now, unfortunately, I got nothin.

[QuikSand]

The second one, we figured out without the help of the first one... it was straight hex and the words were anagrams.

Anagrams of a particular variety, just in case nobody else noticed -- they were all backwards.

Dunno - maybe that's even a clue itself.

[Radii]

January 5th birthdays
1931: Robert Duvall, American film actor
1932: Umberto Eco, Italian author
1938: King Juan Carlos of Spain
1946: Dianne Keaton, American film actress
1969: Marilyn Manson, american entertainer.

and

January 5th
1923 Sam Phillips (founder of Sun Records)
1940 George Malone (Monotones)
1949 George Brown (Kool & The Gang)
1950 Chris Stein (Blondie)
1964 Grant Young (Soul Asylum)
1966 Kate Schellenbach (Luscious Jackson)
1969 Marilyn Manson

[QuikSand]

Well, just to toss it out. Thinking of famous birthdays, one things that did come to mind for me was Marilyn Monroe singing to "Mr. President."

Seeing Marilyn Manson just made me mention it - almost certainly a red herring.

[Radii]

Anagrams of a particular variety, just in case nobody else noticed -- they were all backwards.

Dunno - maybe that's even a clue itself.


I cannot believe I never noticed that. One of those two letter words you could do +13(I think 13...) to spell "is" backwards, while another you could spell "no", or "on" backwards, as was pointed out earlier. The problem of course is that the +x is not the same for each word.

I don't think any possible movement could make a word backwards with the first word, but that deserves some doublechecking now that I'm caught up with the rest of the group

[mhass]

Just a thought:

We (or, better, YOU) got the first line with simple hex, then the second was "hex in reverse." The format of the remainder is so blasted similar to the decoded portion AND enigma2 points us to the "onion" theme which would indicate similar layers. If the numbers in the first two lines don't give us the shift, how about the number of words in the first two lines which could then be reversed for the next?

[RPI-Fan]

Just a thought, going back to the "Onion" theory.

The "enigma" code-breaking machine was used a lot during WWII - trying to find any specifics for 1943, but no look thus far. But perhaps in some way it relates to the jump we made from Step 1 to Step 2.

[mhass]

Just a thought, going back to the "Onion" theory.

The "enigma" code-breaking machine was used a lot during WWII - trying to find any specifics for 1943, but no look thus far. But perhaps in some way it relates to the jump we made from Step 1 to Step 2.
I like the 1943 reference. I'm thinking now that the reversals from Sentence 1 to Sentence 2 was just something we were supposed to pick up - there's no real "clue" to tell us a reversal was coming. I think the 1943 code might give us the tool for Sentence 3.

[enigma2]

Sometimes you need to step back and look at the "John Cherney"

[Lonnie]

I figured out sentence 3, but don't see any pattern that I could have gotten there with that relates to 1943 or 79.

It's backwards words like the 2nd, and two words are combined at one point.

"What month do most people consider the month of love"

lost again after that.

[mhass]

I figured out sentence 3, but don't see any pattern that I could have gotten there with that relates to 1943 or 79.

It's backwards words like the 2nd, and two words are combined at one point.

"What month do most people consider the month of love"

lost again after that.
What was your decoder?

[Lonnie]

Karl Dunn's Spook. I found it at hxxp://www.gtoal.com/wordgames/cryptograms.html

I just converted the hex values to alpha characters and entered the words in backwards, adding words on every try.

[mhass]

Going back to the birthday question . . . could that refer to the day the puzzle was posted (Feb. 13)? Should we be looking for someone famous born on 2/13 (besides me)?

edit: "How many candles are on this famous birthday cake"

[mhass]

DOLA
2/13
Peter Gabriel 55
Stockard Channing 61
Jerry Springer 61
Chuck Yeager 82
LL Bean? 132

[QuikSand]

Karl Dunn's Spook.

Wow, good for you. Good luck with the rest of the puzzle, I think this is the stop where I get off.

[Lonnie]

Was I not supposed to use any kind of utility? Or are you refferring to the name of the utility?

[QuikSand]

Oh, I guess I misunderstood the reference. I thought the "Spook" referece was to some specific online cipher -- that if you weren't using that website (or that set of ciphering instructions), you'd never come away with anything useful.

If it is just a way to automate the hex-to-text cipher we've been working with all along, then no problem, my bad.

[Lonnie]

No, it is a brute force program that uses a dictionary. I just didn't know that that was frowned upon. I got the first two with just my excel spreadsheet, I'll stick to that.

[QuikSand]

I just didn't know that that was frowned upon.

You misunderstand me. It's fine, no need to change anything.

[Radii]

I do not understand at all how that answer was arrived at!

[Radii]

Here are the next 10 "words"


7 1a b 4 - b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 -

15 c - 15 b 7 - b 7 a 6 10 17 6

There's 3 two letter words. In "What month do most people consider the month of love" there are not 3 two letter words, unless I am pulling something from the wrong place?

[Lonnie]

The solution I came up with to those words is:

"tahw htnom od tsom elpoep redisnoc eht htnomfo"

the next word is "evol"

After that the key changes again and I just get gibberish.

I could be completely wrong on that section, but it does make a cohesive sentence.

[cuervo72]

I still want to know what the heck a "John Cherney" is.

[Radii]

Ah, maybe you left out a few words?

What month do most people consider to be the month of love?

Seems to fit then.

It would be nice to be able to understand how that was arrived at.

A reverse hex gives TAPW for the first word. But it totally goes to hell after that. Was there some sort of key we could use from the first two answers that would have told us that it wasn't WPAT but WHAT and that could have pushed us into getting the rest of it more cleanly?

[QuikSand]

The Onion Puzzle

Once you have peeled the onion, you will know the question. Only then will you find the answer.


17 8 1 14 - 19 5 1 12 - 4 9 4 - 7 5 f 12 7 5 - 17 1 13 8 9 e 7 14 f e - 3 1 12 16 5 12 - 4 9 5 -

17 f 8 - 19 e 1 d - 13 5 c 4 e 1 3 - 5 12 1 - e f - 13 9 8 14 - 13 15 f d 1 6 - 19 1 4 8 14 12 9 2 -

5 b 1 3 - 7 1a b 4 - b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 -

15 c - 15 b 7 - b 7 a 6 10 17 6 - 15 11 6 3 - 15 b 9 3 15 4 - 7 16 1a 7 2 - 15 16 18 d 4 - a 6 11 -

a 15 16 - a 15 2 2 d 18 - 17 d 1a - 10 15 2 15 12 16 - 10 d 7 1a 16 - a 15 14 a 1a 17 15 14 -

a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14


Quoting for reference.

[QuikSand]

The inevitable "where we are" post.


So, we have, from the jumble of clue codes:

17 8 1 14 - 19 5 1 12 - 4 9 4 - 7 5 f 12 7 5 - 17 1 13 8 9 e 7 14 f e - 3 1 12 16 5 12 - 4 9 5

WHAT YEAR DID GEORGE WASHINGTON CARVER DIE?
simple hex-to-text cipher, 1=a, 2=b, etc
ANSWER - seems to be 1943



17 f 8 - 19 e 1 d - 13 5 c 4 e 1 3 - 5 12 1 - e f - 13 9 8 14 - 13 15 f d 1 6 - 19 1 4 8 14 12 9 2 - 5 b 1 3

HOW MANY CANDLES ARE ON THAT FAMOUS BIRTDHAY CAKE?
same cipher, but words are all backwards
ANSWER - might be 79 for Carver's age, but I have my doubts



- 7 1a b 4 - b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 - 15 c - 15 b 7 - b 7 a 6 10 17 6 - 15 11 6 3

WHAT MONTH DO MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER TO BE THE MONTHOF (sic) LOVE?
through some cipher that Lonnie refuses to share so far (just a misunderstanding, i'm sure)
ANSWER - I'm thinking February



Which leaves us with:

- 15 b 9 3 15 4 - 7 16 1a 7 2 - 15 16 18 d 4 - a 6 11 -
a 15 16 - a 15 2 2 d 18 - 17 d 1a - 10 15 2 15 12 16 - 10 d 7 1a 16 - a 15 14 a 1a 17 15 14 -
a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14



A possible undercurrent is something like "Black History Month" -- though I don't think we have enough together to know quite where all this is leading. I'm certain that this phrase has already been tried as a password.

[QuikSand]

Maybe it's just -3, -5, -3, -1, -3, -5, -3, -1... good lord.

(this was submitted after the nest post - damn forum time-stamping bug)

[QuikSand]

This third cipher seems to actually start with the word "MONTH" as the old hex-reverse cipher is still in effect for the word "WHAT" but after that, I still can't get from
b 7 a 6 10 to M O N T H in any easy way.

16 20 17 21 10
somehow becomes
13 15 14 20 7

...and I don't see how. It has to be in order, because we have the screwy "monthof" later, and its first five letters are the same as these.

Every other letter is a 3-step-down jump, but I don't see how to get from 20 to 15, and then 21 to 20.

[digamma]

I haven't had time to get into the ciphering, but instead of Black History month--maybe some relation to President's Day--George Washington Carver, leading to George Washington--his birthday being part of the President's Day celebration--which is in February.

Maybe a stretch.

[QuikSand]

No, I think that's a solid lead.

[mhass]

Does anyone recognize this pattern for a word? There are three repeated letters which seems unique enough to pick the word and reverse-engineer the cipher.

a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14

[QuikSand]

Does anyone recognize this pattern for a word? There are three repeated letters which seems unique enough to pick the word and reverse-engineer the cipher.

a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14

Good thinking. My first guess is that 15=e, as the letter "e" would make sense as the opening vowel, and as part of a common -ed or -er ending to a word.

That makes "a" a consonant, almost certainly, and 10 10 is probably a doubled consonant, also -- like BB, DD, GG, LL, MM, NN, PP, RR, SS, or TT.

Trouble is... there isn't an easily double-able consonant 5 spots away from "e" in the alphabet - we get J and Z, neither work too well.


If the last cipher is indeed as complex as -3, -1, -3, -5, -3, -1, -5, etc (some weird sine wave system) then this thing is a giant mess, and the matching numbers probably have no connection to the same letter at all.

[Lonnie]

It would be nice to be able to understand how that was arrived at.

A reverse hex gives TAPW for the first word. But it totally goes to hell after that. Was there some sort of key we could use from the first two answers that would have told us that it wasn't WPAT but WHAT and that could have pushed us into getting the rest of it more cleanly?

I started on the reverse hex method assuming the first word was 'what' backwards. I messed around with shifting things but could never arrive at a valid shift that would give 'what'. I then used spook to find matching patterns until I arrived with that sentence. However, like I said before it could be totally wrong. Especially with the HTNOMFO part being "month of". It was listed as one word, and I am just speculating that it could be two.

Anyway here is my key table so far if it helps

hex to alpha ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
reverse ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA
new key SLW OT CNHB MVIP EDFR A

Only A, I, T, and W align with the reverse hex key, and I haven't found the pattern would create the new key from the hex or reverse hex keys.

[QuikSand]

Ack, 10=17, not ten.

Maybe the word is BEGGVBED. Looks good to me.

[QuikSand]

Well, Lonnie, either you are the enigma author and are just helping us out, or you are *way* the fuck ahead of me here.

[Radii]

Well, Lonnie, either you are the enigma author and are just helping us out, or you are *way* the fuck ahead of me here.

i think there is some confusion on what happened here.

Lonnie used a program he found on that site that does something and gave us an answer.

The answer seems right and seems to fit the puzzle so far. but we do not know how that program that was run arrived at the answer.

So what is happening in Lonnie's post I believe(and what I have been trying to do when I've looked at this today), is take what looks like a correct answer and "reverse engineer" it to get the encryption method.

So far, without any luck(but I haven't tried the +1/+3/+5 thing you had noticed on the whole sentence so far)

[QuikSand]

but we do not know how that program that was run arrived at the answer.

He suggested it was just a brute force program, you key in something, tell it how you want it coded, and it spits out a result -- that's what I'm thinking.

If thats so, then I still haven't a clue how he got to the cipher, and his explanation above doesn't get me a whit closer. I'm still with the statement above. I'm either hopelessly behind, or we all are.

[enigma2]

Lonnie: that was a neat trick using a brute force program. However, That will not help you solve the last clue. Every one of my posts so far has been a clue to help you solve the ciphers. Go back and look at all of my clues and maybe you will get some ideas.

[Radii]

He suggested it was just a brute force program, you key in something, tell it how you want it coded, and it spits out a result -- that's what I'm thinking.

Nah, I downlaoded the program myself to play with it and see exactly what it did. You just key in your jumble and it uses some sort of internal brute force algorithm to give you an answer. You don't have to specify anything about wha tyou suspect the cipher to be.

I think we are all equally hopelessly lost right now.

time to go see if enigma's recent post helps any.

Also, random thought, the answers to the first three questions have been "February" "xx" where xx is a number we are not 100% certain about, and "1943"

I also wonder if the 79 is wrong, but also that the right answer is a specific day in history that would make February X, 1943 relevant to the rest of the puzzle.

[Radii]

so now we have:

"Go back and look at all of my clues and maybe you will get some ideas."

From post 1:


The Onion Puzzle

Once you have peeled the onion, you will know the question. Only then will you find the answer.


post #2 by the enigma:


Remember folks, this is the onion puzzle. Just think of an onion as you try to solve this puzzle.


Post #3:


Sometimes you need to step back and look at the "John Cherney"


I googled this and got a lot of random stuff, the #1 hit being some hockey owner.


And that is all until now, where we get:


Lonnie: that was a neat trick using a brute force program. However, That will not help you solve the last clue. Every one of my posts so far has been a clue to help you solve the ciphers. Go back and look at all of my clues and maybe you will get some ideas.


So we do know this is the last clue.

[Airhog]

Maybe John Cherney the Painter?

[Buzzbee]

Just some thoughts from an interested observer.

The date angle seems to be promising. You have a month - February, a year - 1943, and most likely a two digit number - # of candles on a famous birthday cake. Originally it was thought that the number of candles was how old GWC was when he died. In looking back, it seems like the clues themselves may not be related, only the ciphers used to solve them. There doesn't seem to be a connection between Carver and February, or his birthday cake and 79 doesn't seem to fit.

It seems like the layers of the onion refer to the cipers.

1 = hex to text
2 = hex to text backwards
3 = hex to text backwards + shift
4 = hex to text backwards + shift + ???

My guess is the first three will give us the date. February xx, 1943. The last will tell us how to use it or why it is important.

So, does anyone know of a famous birthday cake? One that might have less than 29 candles?

[Lonnie]

So, does anyone know of a famous birthday cake? One that might have less than 29 candles?

Ah, how about 16 candles?

[Radii]

http://www.famousbirthdays.com/feb.html

No John Cherney. a fair number of famous people born in Feb 1943. And Ididn't know that Lincoln and Darwin were born on the exact same day.

washington is of course Feb 22nd. He'd be 272 now.

[Buzzbee]

Ah, how about 16 candles?
That seems like a pretty good guess. Of course if it is correct, we still don't know what to do with it until we figure out the last clue.

[Silver Owl]

A thought from another observer, could the onion reference have to do with RINGS instead of layers? Would that help with anything?

[enigma2]

Your getting closer to the end, and Im sure you'll figure it out.

sorry about the John cherney reference, but I didnt want to come out and say it, but at first you were not looking at the big picture, which is what he paints alot of. Now it doesnt seem like you need any more help, and I am sure you will figure it out.

[Buccaneer]

Well, Lonnie, either you are the enigma author and are just helping us out, or you are *way* the fuck ahead of me here.
I'm glad to see that the system administrator did find that blown circuit.

[QuikSand]

Your getting closer to the end, and Im sure you'll figure it out.

sorry about the John cherney reference, but I didnt want to come out and say it, but at first you were not looking at the big picture, which is what he paints alot of. Now it doesnt seem like you need any more help, and I am sure you will figure it out.

Sorry if this comes off as mean-spirited, but in the true spirit of lost souls trying to crack an enigma puzzle...

Any chance the multiple grammatical/spelling errors here are some sort of clue? That hasn't been characteristic of e2 to this point... but seven mistakes in a couple of sentences almost seems like a flag. (As usual, probably not)

[Buzzbee]

:(

Made it to the second page. After all the progress, seems a waste not to make a final push. I'd try to help, but I am useless with hex, and worthless on ciphers. So, a hex based cipher puts me right out.

[enigma2]

QS: I am just a bad at spelling and grammar. Try Googling Satori Publishing for help sovling the puzzle, maybe they can shed some light on the enigma of it all

[mhass]

<CENTER>http://www.satoripublishing.com/puzzles/images/cryptogram_sample_thumbnail.GIF (http://www.satoripublishing.com/puzzles/cryptogram_sample.html)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>??????</CENTER>

[cuervo72]

Did the enigma just become blatantly commercialized?

[Airhog]

bump

[Lonnie]

I'm still working on it, just had to give my brain a rest.

I think this clue might be helpful.

Your getting closer to the end, and Im sure you'll figure it out.


Getting closer to the end, possibly one of the three letter words that are left are end. Or it could be that the cipher shifts to the right, and gets closer to the end of the alphabet. Or the cipher contains the word 'end'?

The last two words really puzzle me with the layout they have even forwards or backwards. I'm wondering if it may be someone's name or possibly contractions or joined words. The letter pair '15 14' appears 3 times in the last two words, but no where else in the puzzle. The most common two letter pair is HE, but I can't make that work.

Well hope that helps someone kickstart this again.

[enigma2]

You people read way to much into my sentance. That picture mhass posted tells you exactly how to solve the 3rd clue. In our case though, R doesnt equal E

[enigma2]

you shouldnt have much trouble now, but even if you do. Just look to the Rhineland as help to solve the final clue!

[Lonnie]

So the last clue is German-Ciphered-Reversed-Hexed!!! The final onion layer.

crap, I don't know German.

[enigma2]

If you guys still cant get an answer by tomorrow evening, I will post the answer.

[Radii]

I spent more time looking at this today, even with the extra hint, and I have nothing.

[QuikSand]

Well just for kicks, I might as well try to solve the crypto in the linked pic:

“Q DRVVLB BKL XQGX KR KQX FRPRW ELVT Q VCR KQX JUXE ELVT LFR.”
-QUEKLW UFSFLBFO

“A FELLOW WHO SAYS HE HAS NEVER TOLD A LIE HAS JUST TOLD ONE.”
-AUTHOR UNKNOWN?


…wasn’t as hard as I might have thought.

[Ryno]

I couldn't sleep, so I thought I'd take a crack at this.

I couldn't figure out the last cipher, but 1943 and Rhineland lead me to believe that it's something to do with World War II. The most significant event that occured in February seems to have been the Soviets defeating the Germans in Stalingrad.

I don't see how this helps with the last cipher, but hopefully it's part of the big picture.

[QuikSand]

Since it seems the enigma's hints ("big picture" and "painting") are pointing us toward this John Cherney (http://www.leslietryon.com/agriculture0402/gallery0402.html), I thought I'd post a link. Maybe it will help someone else more than it does me.

[enigma2]

Post #44 Post 86 and post 90. Look over those posts, and you should be able to solve the puzzle. If not, your just not applying

[cuervo72]

Post #44 Post 86 and post 90. Look over those posts, and you should be able to solve the puzzle. If not, your just not applying

This is always a good approach to endear yourself to your audience.

[QuikSand]

Post #44 Post 86 and post 90. Look over those posts, and you should be able to solve the puzzle. If not, your just not applying

POST 44:

I figured out sentence 3, but don't see any pattern that I could have gotten there with that relates to 1943 or 79.

It's backwards words like the 2nd, and two words are combined at one point.

"What month do most people consider the month of love"

lost again after that.

POST 86

<CENTER>http://www.satoripublishing.com/puzzles/images/cryptogram_sample_thumbnail.GIF (http://www.satoripublishing.com/puzzles/cryptogram_sample.html)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>??????</CENTER>

POST 90

You people read way to much into my sentance. That picture mhass posted tells you exactly how to solve the 3rd clue. In our case though, R doesnt equal E


Quoted for reference.

[QuikSand]

Lonnie, please get back on that codebreaker program, and give this fucker a whirl. You're the only one who's made a lick of progress with this thing... and the only clues I'm seeing from e2 are misspelled words, so I'm not worth a damn.

[QuikSand]

Post #44 Post 86 and post 90. Look over those posts, and you should be able to solve the puzzle. If not, your just not applying

POST 44:

I figured out sentence 3, but don't see any pattern that I could have gotten there with that relates to 1943 or 79.

It's backwards words like the 2nd, and two words are combined at one point.

"What month do most people consider the month of love"

lost again after that.

POST 86

<CENTER>http://www.satoripublishing.com/puzzles/images/cryptogram_sample_thumbnail.GIF (http://www.satoripublishing.com/puzzles/cryptogram_sample.html)</CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>??????</CENTER>

POST 90

You people read way to much into my sentance. That picture mhass posted tells you exactly how to solve the 3rd clue. In our case though, R doesnt equal E


Re-posted for reference.

[QuikSand]

The inevitable "where we are" post, yet again...


So, we have, from the jumble of clue codes:

17 8 1 14 - 19 5 1 12 - 4 9 4 - 7 5 f 12 7 5 - 17 1 13 8 9 e 7 14 f e - 3 1 12 16 5 12 - 4 9 5

WHAT YEAR DID GEORGE WASHINGTON CARVER DIE?
simple hex-to-text cipher, 1=a, 2=b, etc
ANSWER - seems to be 1943



17 f 8 - 19 e 1 d - 13 5 c 4 e 1 3 - 5 12 1 - e f - 13 9 8 14 - 13 15 f d 1 6 - 19 1 4 8 14 12 9 2 - 5 b 1 3

HOW MANY CANDLES ARE ON THAT FAMOUS BIRTDHAY CAKE?
same cipher, but words are all backwards
ANSWER - 16


- 7 1a b 4 - b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 - 15 c - 15 b 7 - b 7 a 6 10 17 6 - 15 11 6 3

WHAT MONTH DO MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER TO BE THE MONTHOF (sic) LOVE?
through some cipher that Lonnie cracked, without clear understanding how)
ANSWER - February



Which leaves us with:

- 15 b 9 3 15 4 - 7 16 1a 7 2 - 15 16 18 d 4 - a 6 11 -
a 15 16 - a 15 2 2 d 18 - 17 d 1a - 10 15 2 15 12 16 - 10 d 7 1a 16 - a 15 14 a 1a 17 15 14 -
a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14

[QuikSand]

- 15 b 9 3 15 4 - 7 16 1a 7 2 - 15 16 18 d 4 - a 6 11 -
a 15 16 - a 15 2 2 d 18 - 17 d 1a - 10 15 2 15 12 16 - 10 d 7 1a 16 - a 15 14 a 1a 17 15 14 -
a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14

TRANSLATED TO DECIMALS:
(Can’t tell how far to go before the code changes again)

21 11 09 03 21 04 – 07 22 26 07 02 – 21 22 24 13 04 – 10 06 17 – 10 21 22 – 10 21 02 02 13 24

just direct hex-to-alpha translation… I find it easier to work with letters:

UKICUD GVZGB UVXMD JFQ JUV JUBBMX

(trying some brute force letter substitutions, I guess)

…ok, the best clue I see is two back-to-back 3-letter words that (hopefully) start with the same letter. Unless this is some sort of fucked-up reversed-word system, and I am just pointlessly wasting my/our time. (Have that feeling anyway)

Candidates:
AND/ARE/ANY
WHO/WAS

I like “WHO WAS” best there off the top of my head, which makes the next word fit this pattern – WAxxyz, which gives me absolutely nothing. 21 is a common letter in the cipher, it seems, though, so that being A might stand a simple test.


UKICUD GVZGB UVXMD JFQ JUV JUBBMX
A A A WHO WAS WA


Again, the first letters of the sentences have been traditional question openers… and I can’t get shit from the word with two A’s in it. What six-letter words make more sense there?

Just hoping to spark something… but I don’t see anything taking shape, and really don’t have enough sense of (1) how far the next code goes, (2) what it might be about, or (3) whether what I’m doing is even along the generically right track to stick with it much more.

I’ll post this… hope someone gets use from it.

[enigma2]

The Program isnt important QS just the end result.

Here is the original code.


17 8 1 14 - 19 5 1 12 - 4 9 4 - 7 5 f 12 7 5 - 17 1 13 8 9 e 7 14 f e - 3 1 12 16 5 12 - 4 9 5 -

17 f 8 - 19 e 1 d - 13 5 c 4 e 1 3 - 5 12 1 - e f - 13 9 8 14 - 13 15 f d 1 6 - 19 1 4 8 14 12 9 2 -

5 b 1 3 - 7 1a b 4 - b 7 a 6 10 - 6 16 - 7 2 6 10 - 15 3 13 6 15 13 - 18 15 16 12 2 a 6 9 - 6 7 -

15 c - 15 b 7 - b 7 a 6 10 17 6 - 15 11 6 3 - 15 b 9 3 15 4 - 7 16 1a 7 2 - 15 16 18 d 4 - a 6 11 -

a 15 16 - a 15 2 2 d 18 - 17 d 1a - 10 15 2 15 12 16 - 10 d 7 1a 16 - a 15 14 a 1a 17 15 14 -

a 15 10 10 6 a 15 14


Here is the first layer with the Hex removed.

What year did George Washington Carver die woh ynam seldnac era no siht suomaf yadhtrib ekac gzkd kgjfp fv gbfp ucsfus xuvrbjfi fg ulukg kgjfp wf uqfc ukicud gvzgb uvxmd jfq juv jubbmx wmz puburv pmgzv jutjzwut juppfjut

Here is the next layer removed (backwards)

How many candles are on this famous birthday cake DKZG PFJGK VF PFBG SUFSCU IFJBRVUX GF LU GKU PFJGK FW CFQU DUCIKU BGZVG DMXVU QFJ VUJ
XMBBUJ ZMW VRUBUP VZGMP TUWZJTUJ TUJFPPUJ

Hopefully this makes the puzzle a bit easier for everyone else to follow.

[Lonnie]

So this would be the 3rd section + the remaining

WHAT MONTH DO MOST PEOPLE CONSIDER TO BE THE MONTH OF LOVE WELCHE STADT WURDE VON DEN RUSSEN AUF DIESEM DATUM _EFAN_EN _ENOMMEN

Very German words

Welche = Which
Stadt = City
Wurde = was
von = from/of
den = to
Russen = Russian
auf = on/onto/up
diesem = this/that
datum = date


So I'm guessing it's Which city was taken from Russia on this date ________ ________. We also have February, 16?, 1943.


I don't know German enough to make guesses at the last two words.

[Lonnie]

Dola

Messing around with this german-english dictionary, I matched _ENOMMEN to either GENOMMEN or BENOMMEN, trial and error led to GENOMMEN with the other word GEFANGEN

GEFANGEN GENOMMEN = arrested/captured

Someone solve it, I don't have a puzzle ready to post.

[Lonnie]

wikipedia says

# February 16 - World War II: Soviet Union reconquers Kharkov, but is later driven out in the Third Battle of Kharkov

[enigma2]

Kharkov is indeed the answer, thanks to Lonnie and the rest of the geniuses. Since I didn't have much hand in solving this, I'll post a real quick puzzle.

[Airhog]

bravo lonnie. Im glad that you were finally able to solve it :)