View Full Version : My reply...
10-25-2000, 03:39 PM
First of all let me state that this post was my opinion and has nothing to do with Barry, Chuck, or how they choose to handle the situation. So please keep the two separate, it's their game now.
If anyone here felt that my post was directed at them in error, I'm sorry. My ire is aimed at the few people who behaved in a manner that I felt was inappropriate. I've spoken with them over email and while I don't think we're going to agree on things, at least we understand each other's point of view.
My remarks were posted here because I know this is the best place to get my point across. You may not agree with me, but when I heard what happened, it made me very angry. I felt betrayed by a group of people that I've spent a lot of time supporting and fighting for. I realize that I should not have lumped you all together, or blamed "the group" for the actions of a few. That's the wrong way to handle it, and I'm sorry for that.
I feel that I've dealt with each of you in a fair manner ever since I got involved with this game last July. If you have lost respect for me because I got pissed off that a few people were undermining our efforts, think how you'd feel if our situations were reversed. I don't come to your work and tell you how to do your job, or take your project that's 99% complete and jeopardize it's chances of succeeding.
However, my comments about the NFL were right on and I do not retract them. If they chose, at this delicate point in the negotiations, to call things off, we'd have no recourse. They've been burned in the past and getting them to agree to anything is very difficult. That's why this game is late, because negotiations between EVERYONE involved (EA, NFL, AOL, etc.) are taking a long time. That happens - in 1998 Madden 64 shipped with no NFL license because we didn't sign a deal in time. This game is part of a larger picture so it has to wait. That's out of all of our (production team) control.
So feel free to email me or flame or whatever you want. My email address has always been available if you want to hit me up with your issues. Ask anyone who's "been here" what I've done for this game, this community, and on your behalf, and maybe you'll understand where I'm coming from. I'm just trying to do my job and protect my interests. Once again, if you feel slighted or angry at my post, I apologize to those of you who didn't deserve blame.
At this point I am going to bow out of the fun, I've already done enough for one day.
10-25-2000, 03:45 PM
What ever happened to people taking responsibility for their own mistakes? I guess it is still Tony's fault that the "Buy" page was made open to the public.
And once again, IF YOU ATTACK ANY PART OF THE FOF FORUM, YOU ATTACK THE WHOLE!!!!!!
p.s. Thanks for helping me with FOF2, Dan. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/smile.gif
Rising up against "The Man"
10-25-2000, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the reply Dan, now get some rest http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/smile.gif
10-25-2000, 03:46 PM
I agree. This is a good start at an apology, but I'm still not sure who on this board did anything wrong at all.
10-25-2000, 03:49 PM
"in 1998 Madden 64 shipped with no NFL license because we didn't sign a deal in time. This game is part of a larger picture so it has to wait. That's out of all of our (production team) control."
Let FOF2001 ship WITHOUT an NFLPA license then. I honestly don't think most of us care...
10-25-2000, 03:49 PM
As, I must presume, one of the "few" whose actions you lament, I'd like to suggest that you may have some things wrong, Dan.
The web address for the game purchase had been made public in this community for about a week. There was nothing unrealistic in anyone's occasional visit to the site to see if it had been "made active" (i.e. the game had been released.
When a forum leader read that another site was promoting FOF 2001's imminent relese, he checked the widely-known release site, and noted that it was now active. He then passed on this good news to the hordes of people who are waiting to pay you their money, myself included. Some of us acted quickly, and downloaded the game by giving our purchase information (credit card number)-- this was not any kind of attempted hacking or piracy, as you have described it.
As soon as Tony, Kliq, and I got word that it was an error and the request to unlicense-- we all did so promptly. You may believe that by my modest delay I was flouting your wishes-- I can only ask you to take my word (and those I typed on this forum) that that is not so.
I suspect that this thread will be locked soon-- but I wanted you to hear it from someone close: we are not your enemies here.
[This message has been edited by QuikSand (edited 10-25-2000).]
10-25-2000, 03:52 PM
Can some of you give the guy a "slight" break? He's appologized. I'll be man enough to accept it.
Go Cowboys...errr, Jets! Yeah, Jets!
10-25-2000, 03:57 PM
Why not acknowledge that the link was live and available for anyone to come along and visit?
I certainly don't, or won't, ever blame the few who tried to purchase a game that was available on a frequently visited website. I think most of us that were aware of the FOF2K1 website probably tried the "buy now" link.
To me, it is clear that the blame needs to fall on the team that was testing the downloading method and not EA's consumers.
10-25-2000, 03:58 PM
That is one burned bridge, Tony.
Go Cowboys...errr, Jets! Yeah, Jets!
10-25-2000, 04:04 PM
Well, ok, but I want to add this. If the game is not released now because of this crap, I hope Jim sues the hell out of EA or the people who were doing the website testing, cause Jim will be out 1,000's of dollars. If he does, we will all be behind him and welcome our day in court to clear our "names" of the screw up, cause anyone with any sense at all can see that NONE of the blame for this rests on NONE of us. PERIOD.
That's all I'm going to say about this.
MoeMan = Buns of Steel
10-25-2000, 04:07 PM
Yeah. This whole situation is really, really, stupid. I've lurked here for quite a while (and back at frontofficefootball, of course) and I love FOF2. For EA to attack people for downloading what looked AVAILABLE for download is stupid. And lawyers, I believe, would agree. If someone's a software pirate, prosecute them. Don't try to scare people into submission by using threats. Geez, you'd figure some people are 13 years old. Wait, I work with 13 year olds, I shouldn't insult them.
10-25-2000, 04:09 PM
I also think that we should give Dan a break. I think the big mistake was posting up on the front page of the site that the game was out, when it really wasn't. He should have checked with EA to make sure that it was a official release.
That sure did not sound like an apology to me...
Sorry, Dan I agree with Swaggs...
If all 10 of the people who downloaded the Game gave EA ( or the Distributor's ) the CC number then I don't think anyone associated with this site did anything wrong.
Least of all Tony...Heck it sounds like you probably owe him a direct apology.
Can't EA just admit they goofed...
10-25-2000, 04:17 PM
Dan, you really have missed the point here. At no stage has anyone from this website knowingly attempted to get hold of an illegal copy of this game as you have implied. You have lost considerable credibility by proportioning blame to certain individuals who merely attempted to purchase your product. Your limited appology holds no water until you acknowledge the fact that the fowl-up was EA's and EA's alone - I thought you were better than that.
[This message has been edited by BillsfanUK (edited 10-25-2000).]
10-25-2000, 04:17 PM
Hi guys, first post. This has been beaten to death today, so I'll try not to repeat.
Question - even if the NFL backs out, who cares? So we'll all start with primer careers, I'm perfectly fine with that. In a lot of ways, I prefer that. Save the money from the NFL license - better yet, give it to Jim Gindin.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove
anything." - Nietzsche
10-25-2000, 04:21 PM
You're a jackass! Plain and simple!
-Oh, You didn't know! Your ass better call somebody!
10-25-2000, 04:21 PM
Ice: Welcome. There are two different licenses here - NFLPA and NFL. FOF2 always had the NFLPA licenses (allowing Jim to use real players), but FOF2001 will also allow to use real team names and logos. EA wouldn't want to sell a game otherwise.
billsfan: In a sense, it was piracy, but not intetionally. You see, FOF2001 is NOT legally authorized to use NFL team names and logos yet. Therefore, any public distribution and loading of said product is illegal.
10-25-2000, 04:26 PM
Anyone who thinks the users of FOFcentral.com are attempting to pirate the game should check out the earler thread where a person tried to pirate the game and was quickly rebuked by all. We're the good guys, not the bad guys. I recall earlier this month that Dan tried to get some people to help him test the EA Fantasy Football League on their website. Some people attacked him, but a number (myself included) remembered the good he had done, and went to bat for him. I can't believe he won't do the same for us.
Hmm, Pac-10 champion Stanford gave up 509 total yards of offense to Tuiasosopo; I wonder how 3-4 Stanford will do against him.
10-25-2000, 04:26 PM
I hope you will have the time and take the time to read this.
Since you helped me with getting FOF2 (I'm one of those people without a credit card) I want to thank you and help you now, well sort of...
Three or four months ago, Jim Gindin himself announced the coming of FOF2k1 at the odl forum, the dream of the new version was born.
Then about 2½ months ago, somebody posted a link to the company that does the graphics on FOF2k1. (I can't remember the name right now.)
But within an hour, that site was no more accesable.
Some days later, I think it was Blackadar who told us then that EA was checking the old forum frequently and found out the graphics designers had made screen shots including NFL licensed logos -> the screen shots had to be removed.
About a week ago, still at the old forum somebody posted a link to the site for FOF2k1 and we all saw a buy button there, this site included the NFL license.
Of course, a lot of us suspected that that site would also be down within a day, but surprizingly the site was still accesable the last 6 days.
Now I think this clears why a lot of people thought that as soon as the buy button would work, the game would be doenfor release...
This is the way I see it, if something of the above stated things is not true, I'm sorry.
But this really is the way I remember it...
With best regards,
10-25-2000, 04:28 PM
You have a good point Cards... Tony was wrong to post the news without official say from EA. If I had been Tony, in the excitement of the moment, I might have made the same mistake.
Even with acknowledging this, it does nothing to redeem the much larger mistake of EA making that link live in the first place!
If they'd been paying any attention to this community at all, they'd realize -that with all the adrenelin at bay waiting for the release of FOF2001- we'd become 24-7 gumshoes checking out all possible leads on EA's site. Any sprig of hope toward the game's final release OF COURSE would be found out immediately by our fam here at FOFCentral.
Tony jumped the gun with posting it on the front page... but he's human and excited for any news on FOF 2001. He's already deleted the game from his hard drive and admitted his mistake. I wish EA's reps would in turn fess up... and be equally as adult and forthcoming about their mistake.
MIJB: Excellent! That needed to be said... and it couldn't have been said more clearly and eloquently.
"Words are a dead give-away."
[This message has been edited by Upstate_New_York (edited 10-25-2000).]
10-25-2000, 04:28 PM
I'm slowly piecing this info together after not being on the board all day, so perhaps I ahve missed something. But Barry's remarks in another thread were very professional and explanatory. That's enough for me.
This problem is not Tony's fault. The page at EA has been "live" for several weeks. I mentioned last week how surprised I was that the page had not been yanked considering how quickly EA moved when Gigawatt posted the screenshots earlier.
The fact is that EA committed a screw-up. And let's not make this sound like charity case. EA is not in the FOF business for charity. It was a business decision designed to meet their business needs. If anything, they should be thanking us for being such a rabid fan base.
OK, I'm ready to be deleted.
10-25-2000, 04:35 PM
Lost all of my respect, thats final. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/mad.gif
10-25-2000, 05:02 PM
What kcchief and everyone missed was a doozy, check the remaining posts between 10:00-11:30am. The big one is not there anymore though. It was the one in which Tony started and then a number of us jumped in at once, stating our trials and tribulations about purchasing, downloading and elicensing the game (if it got that far). Hopefully Tony still have all of those posts and will present them in a chronology.
10-25-2000, 05:42 PM
Sorry Dan, but you have failed to apologize to the people you called "pirates." They did nothing wrong. They saw that the game was available, wanted to buy it, and gave their CC#, expecting to be charged. YOUR guys screwed up, and should be blamed--not those 10 who bought the game.
The fact is, I would rather give $100 of my hard-earned money directly to Jim for the game, than pay $1 for it through you guys if it meant you got a piece of it.
Yet another reason I will never buy an EA product again, unless it has a Solecismic logo on it.
10-25-2000, 07:45 PM
That's pretty unfair. Dan's been nothing but a friend to us. What we have is a misunderstanding that got blown way out of proportion. Let's just let it die and we won't care when FOF 2001 comes out.
But as punishment Dan, I'm going to start e-mailing you any license issues! http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/smile.gif
Oh, wait. I did that already... http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/smile.gif
10-25-2000, 07:49 PM
Sensorship is a very bad thing...all should be heard. Right B. ?
10-25-2000, 08:04 PM
...as I was saying...the post is really not anything insightful. We don't know any more than we did before. Post again when you have some real news ! This is just more fluff...
No sensorhsip this time...thank you.
10-26-2000, 02:15 AM
it will be interesting to see the number of posts drop significantly after the game comes out.
"...remember when all that shit went down with the game?"
"...me either...i gotta go, im on a roll with my FOF2K1 team.."
"attention all planets of the Solar Federation, we have assumed control...we have assumed control...we have assumed control
10-26-2000, 02:44 AM
Damn, I've always been a huge Dan fan, but just reading the apology is kind of irritating. I'm glad I missed the original post.
Whoever left the test environment exposed ought to be blacklisted from life. Does the distributor have a f*ing firewall?
That link has been up for days, no secret. Anybody remember "Keep Hitting F5"? EA decides not to back the site because the first person to get the download link working posted it? Whatever.
Sorry to stir the pot after things have settled down, I'm just in disbelief.
10-26-2000, 02:52 AM
I hear you OS. Dan's post is so out of character from the helpful guy who poured oil on stormy seas at the time of the DR fiasco. I just don't get it.
10-26-2000, 02:59 AM
Whoa, Duck/Bills, that's the first identity change I've witnessed on the new board.
I almost started over as MiddleSchool when everyone posted their ages, but was too lazy to register again.
10-26-2000, 04:16 AM
I wanted to post at work but did not know my code so I re-invented myself with my favourite poultry.
10-26-2000, 04:52 AM
That's gotta be a candidate for quote of the moment...
favorite poultry? http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/smile.gif
10-26-2000, 12:23 PM
You can probably still find the original comments, if you want to get really mad today.
Look for a locked thread from 10/25 titled something like "You are all cut off." by Dan Wasson. A few of us got some pokes out before Chubs locked the thread in all of the madness, but the original comment was still there last night.
10-27-2000, 05:38 PM
That's got to be the lamest excuse for an apology I have ever had the displeasure of reading.
Very poor form, there, Dan. I sincerely hope you come up with something better in the near future. Accusations of piracy are pretty serious, especially when they are a) made by an EA representative and b) as baseless and ridiculous as yours appear to be.
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