Dan=Bad Person

[Anthony]

<~~~shakes heads in disgust

this is sad. if your post isn't something that could cast off hundreds (thousands even) of customers, i don't know what could. that post must have been the tackiest display of professionalism i have ever seen. the fact that is was from someone who's percieved as a genuine "FOF Good Guy", someone with a key to the FOF HOF, makes it probably hurt even more.

i seriously would like to know how you would explain that rant to your superiors when they get a copy of this email.

...ohhh, you didn't think they'd get a peek of that post, huh? you probably didn't know me. i'm the person who emailed steve case to find out who could best help me to get some answers. rest assured, your post will be promptly copied and pasted and sent to several places within EA:

1. the customer service dept.
2. the email address of an EA official
3. the maddencentral.com forum, where gamers like ourselves converge to share gaming thoughts and news. we all fall under the same "EA Family" because we here at the FOFcentral.com forum are unfortunately forced to purchase a Solecismic game that is owned by your company.

sad but true - this is a "what have you done for me lately" world. it should be an utter disgrace to yourself that the last thing that people will remember about you is that insult of a post that will only give people here a name to attach to the targets that we aim all our frustrations at.

if there was any point in this FOF2001 ordeal, yes, it IS officially an ordeal, that EA or anyone associated with EA was perceived to be "the enemy", i would think your post was surely a good starting point.

there are people here, mostly the moderators, who routinely stand in front of what once was your good name, and absorb the potshots. in fact, they still are, in their attempts at crowd control. still, we have to listen to blackadar (jim w.) vouch for you. well, if there ever was a point in time when his words would fall on deaf ears, unfortunately, that time is now.

you should seriously consider re-posting. not an apology, for if you honestly believe in what you posted, you are then entitled to hold on to your beliefs. but at least to re-word the things in your post that have caught the ire of this forum (basically your whole message) so that you acknowledge you may have been blowing off some steam, aimed some daggers at the wrong people at the wrong time, and did not help to prevent what was first an honest mistake (be it from your end or from here) into becoming a PR nightmare.

some of us here only post nice & positive things. others here only know how to fan flames and make things worse. some here preach the importance of patience. others post messages demanding explanations.

...but what we all have in common is what is the #1 priority:

we are all customers.

a little understanding, and especially a little respect, goes a long way.



[This message has been edited by Hell Atlantic (edited 10-26-2000).]

[SackAttack]

As would a little understanding of Dan's history with the community, Hell.

Josh

[Hurst2112]

eh, i think that's a bit too long for the quote box.

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
"attention all planets of the Solar Federation, we have assumed control...we have assumed control...we have assumed control

[Anthony]

as does practicing even the basic techniques of customer service.

time and again, we've been told "why do you think you are owed anything out of this FOF2001 fiasco"...

well, i counter that with this question -

why does EA, or Dan, to be specific, think i am obligated to spend my $$$ on any of their products?

with the way they've handled this licensing secrecy, with the way their employees can blame people (who were not only willing to pay for their product, but even double it's worth) for the mistake's commited on THEIR end, they continually have not given me a reason not to spend the money i would pay to purchase FOF2001 on a rival company.

plain and simple, that's just bad form...

but i think i've added enough gasoline to this bon-fire. i won't pos any more concerning this topic. i want to get over this nonsense and play my ps2 while i wait for FOF2001 to come out.

[OldSchool]

Ummm...HA, I take back what I said about you being a chick.

[Laddin]

Cut the guy a break. What he did was out of anger. I'm sure lots of us have worked on projects and to see them get held up by negotiations and when things finally look like it might get done. BAM something else happens to put the brakes on everything.

I'm not condoning the things he said, or the way he said it. I'm just saying that he sounds just as frustrated as we are.

Put yourself in his shoes.

[Chief Rum]

Several posters continue to support Dan, generally because they feel that what he said was out of anger and frustration in an emotional time.

I don't disagree. Everyone has these moments. I certainly have spouted off at inappropriate times due to the heat of the moment. I forgave Dan the intent of his first comments just minutes after he said them for this very reason.

What angers me most and what few of those who are shielding Dan are acknowledgeing is that piss-poor, sh*t-eating "apology" he offered.

He called the members of this forum thieves and he has yet to sincerely apologize. He blamed us for the entire mix-up and still has yet to admit the truth, which is that his own company bit it big time.

It seems like some want cooler heads to prevail and everything to be hunky-dory, just so that they don't risk not getting their precious game.

Well, I'm sorry if I differ from the rest of you, but my self-dignity is worth a little bit more to me than that. I don't bow my head in submission when someone falsely accuses this forum, and myself by association, of thievery.

I believe Dan Wasson is not a bad person at all. I have heard otherwise far too often from posters here I respect to label him so from my limited experiences with him. I certainly would not support notifying his superiors in an effort to get him fired. That, I gather, would hurt this forum a lot more than his shameful post.

But he owes all of us a sincere, proper apology, without rationalization. A simple heart-felt expression of regret.

And until he does so, this man in my estimation will never rise above the level of the dirt he threw in his worthless posts.

Chief Rum

[Scarecrow]

Originally posted by Hell Atlantic:


some of us here only post nice & positive things.



This is definately one for the quote board.



------------------
If I only had a brain

[MIJB#19]

Well, I'm pretty sure HA didn't mean me there.

He knows I made some unacceptable/offensive posts at the old forum.
(Remember the Britney attack? the Pelé vs Rice discussion? the baseball threads?)

I really want to defend Dan Wasson, because he helped me out with getting FOF2 and according to Blackadar himself, he helped about 70 others too.

I just have the feeling nobody at EA knew that we knew the URL of the buy-FOF2001 page.
I really can't understand that though, since the incident with the screen shots made by the graphics desiging company (I can't remember their name.)

[ConKrete]

What possible constructive purpose will further lacerating Mr. Wasson serve? Clearly, his actions were unprofessional and offensive. Even if he doesn't explicitly say so, I think he is smart enough to realize that.

But, from a practical standpoint, continuing to burn him in effegy will only serve to widen the divide between EA and the community. Our negative feelings about EA aside, we need them. They've got the game and we don't.

Not purchasing FOF because of Mr. Wasson's immature post isn't an option for anyone here, so there's really nothing we can do except turn the other cheek and continue to wait for the game's release. Let's be adults.

[simms34]

I don't think anybody is saying that Dan's a bad guy. By all accounts, it's precisely the opposite, and I have no reason to believe otherwise. I don't think Dan, the person, needs defending. Not anymore, anyways. But defending the person and defending his actions are two separate things. And if you (or anybody) is defending his actions on the basis of his character, then I think that's a problem. Being a good guy doesn't give anybody the right to say the kinds of things he did.

There have been many occasions when I've said something hurtful "in the heat of the moment", things I've regretted. But basic human decency (or at least common sense) would dictate that after I've cooled off, I'd be contrite about it, and that's what I've done in my experiences.

The moderators and others seem to want to tell us that because of Dan's history with this community, it should be easy to ignore his comments. That's horse sh*t. On the basis of Dan's history, it should be (and likely would be) easy to forgive Dan for his comments, when and if he issues an apology, but not ignore them. However, an apology does not usually include rationalization, and as such, we have yet to hear one.

Personally, I agree with every syllable of Chief Rum's post.

I don't think Dan's a bad guy. I happy that he helped so many people, as it means there are that many more people playing and enjoying FOF. I thank him for everything he's done in the past to promote this game. I'm glad that he's an honorary FOFC Hall of Famer...he no doubt deserves it. But they let Ty Cobb in the Hall of Fame too.

That doesn't give him the right to say whatever the hell he wants and not be held accountable for it.

I want to see this whole thing go away as much as anybody. But the fact remains that whether we get one or not, we deserve an apology. To argue otherwise, in some ways, hurts more than his original comments.

------------------
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."
-- Vince Lombardi

[Cards4ever]

Isn't the important thing the game?

[the_classic]

When I first read Mr. Wasson's post I was outraged, he was calling people thieves, and in my definition a thief is someone who takes something. This product was posted on the internet freely, with no security, and people felt by entering there credit cards #'s they were paying for it. The people who whether succeeded or not at downloading this product, felt that they paid for a legit project, and in no forth felt they were thieves.

Mr. Wasson made blatted attacks out of anger, and that was his first mistake. When you are a principal character in an important situation, you can not under any circumstances, speak, or write out of initial anger to a public medium.

The moderators and others, are defending Mr. Wasson here to the end, because of his support during the Digital River crisis. However, why do we owe him respect for that support. He was doing his job, if he wasn't employed by EA and was helping during the Digital River crisis, maybe then there would be reason for given respect. But I have never felt people should be given special attention, just for doing their paid job.

On the flip side though, I don't feel it is necessary to figuratively "burn him at the stake", he made a mistake, he admitted to it, he respects our opinions, therefore I am going to respect his, and hopefully this can be my last comment on the situation.

[sachmo71]

I think that Hell's post is the most intelligent, well written post on the subject written so far. Cheers, Hell Atlantic.

------------------
Go Cowboys...errr, Jets! Yeah, Jets!

[ez]

a few things:

for now, i'll continue to accept the opinions of those who know Dan and Barry that they want FOF to succeed. but to echo the_classic, it's hardly a conclusion that can be reached because they helped 2%(?) of the people who bought FOF2 get licensed.

(1) who brought DR into this? (2) who failed badly with testing the DR/e-license process before it was unleashed on us? (and failed while beta-testing the game, for that matter.) and even by the standards of half-assed customer service, who is responsible for cleaning up the mess caused by (1) and (2)? this has become a really spectacular example of a problem in the current era: for too many people, any sense of responsibility is gone, unless it's taking or receiving credit for something.

several folks "in the know" have descibed how terribly this might affect the double-super-sensitive negotiations involving the NFL. if that's the case, then why have these folks apparently been leaking info to gaming sites, which exist, in part, to PUBLISH GAMING NEWS?

for me, the most revealing aspect of Dan's rant was his choice of topics ("You're all cut off"). i guess that's the "mature" version of taking your ball and going home.

"10,000 units": this is as "funny" as it gets. the game sold 7000-odd units almost solely by word-of-mouth. what kind of logic is at work when one part of EA (Barry) is essentially taking credit for the hare-brained decisions of another (i guess i'm assuming Barry wasn't involved in the decision to not link to FOF2 on the previous version of the EAsports home page)?

finally, here's a version of something i've written before: maybe the FOF-folks at EA are as great as a handful of people keep telling us. but maybe their sense of what's professionally right and wrong has been destroyed by working for the 800-lb gorilla that nobody in the gaming world respects. and if so, maybe they should do something about it...

[This message has been edited by ez (edited 10-26-2000).]

[Buccaneer]

TCY, friends, TCY...

[ymi17]

Yeah, I gotta agree... With Buc. TCY. All else is meaningless... Well, maybe not ALL else. But you know.

In desperate need of a shower,

Ross

[Swaggs]

I'm with EZ on this.

Yes, it is nice that Dan helped us. But look at it this way:

If you order a pizza and the delivery boy screws around and it gets to you cold, and then a "Dan" brings you a new, hot pizza, you'll take it. But it's still not the same as getting the pizza at the time you expected it, without having to complain, etc. It's nice that the "Dan" is making up for his pizza delivery company's mistake, but he IS doing his job.

For me, another example would be using my father's line of work. If some of my father's workers were to put a new roof on a house and it leaks, his customers wouldn't give him high fives when he goes and fixes it.

I just think it is unfortunate that we have to go through EA exclusively to purchase a game we all love. It is just plain disgusting that we can be called thieves and software pirates.

[Bad-example]

Chief Rum, simms35...you gents are exactly right and have hit the nail squarely.

[CubsFan915]

Originally posted by Swaggs:
I'm with EZ on this.

Yes, it is nice that Dan helped us. But look at it this way:

If you order a pizza and the delivery boy screws around and it gets to you cold, and then a "Dan" brings you a new, hot pizza, you'll take it. But it's still not the same as getting the pizza at the time you expected it, without having to complain, etc. It's nice that the "Dan" is making up for his pizza delivery company's mistake, but he IS doing his job.

For me, another example would be using my father's line of work. If some of my father's workers were to put a new roof on a house and it leaks, his customers wouldn't give him high fives when he goes and fixes it.

I just think it is unfortunate that we have to go through EA exclusively to purchase a game we all love. It is just plain disgusting that we can be called thieves and software pirates.

Wow... Nice anaolgy, Swaggs!

Are you sure you're from Organtown? You must not be a native... http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/ubb/smile.gif


I'M KIDDING! (Don't want to get flamed, here... Things have been tense enough around here lately...)

------------------
GO HOKIES!! BEAT PITTSBURGH!!!

[Mike D]

Yes, those were some very to the point analogies by Swaggs.

To tell you the truth, I want the game, but I'm not sure if getting the game will make up for all the long delays, the rumors, the catfights, and the power-trips. I was excited with this new site, but man did things get old in a hurry. People are now explaining parts of the game in one thread (that I refuse to read)....this is pathetic.

Oh well. Cooler heads should prevail.

[Ben E Lou]

One more.

[Hurst2112]

nice.

The FOF 10 year reunion is going to be awesome!

[hoosierdude]

Did Wasson ever reply again? Or did he disappear?

[Mustang]

Did Wasson ever reply again? Or did he disappear?

He only votes in the hot or not polls now.

[vex]

Ummm...HA, I take back what I said about you being a chick.


:D

[Flasch186]

Dan rhymes with man and Men Jerk off!