OT: A Song of Ice and Fire Series (spoilers inside)

[Samdari]

No, not really. I think he's definitely involved and, therefore, probably distracted by it, but if it wasn't casting it'd be some convention, toy knights, the start of the NFL season, some anthology he's editing, etc.

He always does that other stuff. Now it seems like he's doing that and the HBO series, not that and writing.

[bronconick]

I think he's such a huge Giants fan that he's sworn not to lift a finger to write until Plaxico Burress is again free.

Okay, so I'm only half serious. :banghead:

[Travis]

If I had big ass titties, I'd never get anything done, because I'd be hanging upside down motorboating myself all the time.

Apparently some in that situation still find time to make a quick run out for supplies.

[Galaril]

Well, it is good to see George has made some real progress:
I decided to take a break from tearing and fumbling at the Meereenese knot, and completed a chapter about another character today. A character who is very far from Meereen.

Finishing the chapter felt good. Especially since it also completed that character's arc for the book. Admittedly, she has only two chapters in DANCE, so I am not sending up any flares. But hey, I'm done with one of them for the present, that's something.

Only thirty-eight more POVs to wrap up...

God what an ahole and at this pace he will finish this thing in 2013.

[Autumn]

lol, he's really tearing it up. Hopefully he'll pull a Jordan and add a few new characters in.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm going to have children by the time he releases the next book (FYI, I'm not married and I've been dating my current gf for a month and a half to put that in perspective).

[Fidatelo]

I'm going to have children by the time he releases the next book (FYI, I'm not married and I've been dating my current gf for a month and a half to put that in perspective).

I'm starting to think my 6-month old kid might have read the first book before the next one comes out.

[JAG]

I'm happy he's actually writing during football season.

grrm wrote:
Sep. 12th, 2009 04:42 pm (UTC)
Re: 38?
Yes, that's an exaggeration. A number I pulled out of the air.

sigh

Some of you guys take every word I say much too literally. I suppose I need to start using those "I'm just kidding" icons when I'm kidding, but I'm afraid I am not of the icon generation.

I don't actually know how many POVs I have. More than I intended, definitely, but less than thirty-eight. Way less.

Guess I should go count 'em.


That's pretty funny. Almost as funny as this guy:

I can't wait to see the Meereenese knot's untying in print, and I have faith that I'll see it before the winter is out.

Your faith in the Seven is sorely misplaced...

[flere-imsaho]

So, in two months (more or less) it will have been four years since the most recent book was published, if I'm looking at things correctly.

I'm going to guess my 1-year-old son will be headed off to college before Martin finishes the series. :D

[Autumn]

Is that right? Seems like more recently that the last one came out. But then again I have kids.

[Galaril]

So, in two months (more or less) it will have been four years since the most recent book was published, if I'm looking at things correctly.

I'm going to guess my 1-year-old son will be headed off to college before Martin finishes the series. :D

Yeah no joke that is probably true if he does not die of old age first.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I've been re-reading these lately (about halfway through Storm of Swords at the moment) and I forgot how great they were. So far no major complaints with the casting, though it'll be interesting to see how they pull some of them off - put me in the skeptical of the Cersei casting camp.

[Chief Rum]

I've been re-reading these lately (about halfway through Storm of Swords at the moment) and I forgot how great they were. So far no major complaints with the casting, though it'll be interesting to see how they pull some of them off - put me in the skeptical of the Cersei casting camp.

Is this Vince Vince? As in Vince from Santa Barbara who used to post here a ton, but I haven't seen him post in forever Vince?

If so, glad to see you around.

[DaddyTorgo]

Vince Pt. II is lame. SkyDog should just recover your password for you. An IP-trace could prove that you're the same person.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yes, this is Vince Vince from Santa Barbara that used to post here a ton. It's good to be back - though I'm not sure an IP Trace would work. I've moved around a bunch and have gone through multiple computers/routers/ISPs since I was posting here regularly. I'm certain my knowledge of the SLO Burn's miserable history would be proof enough of my identity, though :)

I asked the HNIC to help me out, but he's busy and I don't really care that I'm now a n00b again, so I just made a new dummy e-mail address and re-registered.

[Schmidty]

Yes, this is Vince Vince from Santa Barbara that used to post here a ton. It's good to be back - though I'm not sure an IP Trace would work. I've moved around a bunch and have gone through multiple computers/routers/ISPs since I was posting here regularly. I'm certain my knowledge of the SLO Burn's miserable history would be proof enough of my identity, though :)

I asked the HNIC to help me out, but he's busy and I don't really care that I'm now a n00b again, so I just made a new dummy e-mail address and re-registered.
He's too busy? Damn, that's busy. I mean, I feel like I'm busy sometimes, but think that even then I could spare 1 minute of my time. But that's just me.

[JeeberD]

I would help if I could, but updating e-mail addresses isn't one of the powers I have...

[Vince, Pt. II]

Like I said, I don't care. I'm sure Ben's got plenty of more important things to do that aren't "make sure random poster's handle is not lame." It's really no big deal :)

[Schmidty]

Like I said, I don't care. I'm sure Ben's got plenty of more important things to do that aren't "make sure random poster's handle is not lame." It's really no big deal :)

BUT YOU'RE VINCE, DAMNIT!!!!! I DEMAND JUSTICE!!!!!

:mad:

[Vince, Pt. II]

With the righteous fury of Schmidty on my side, how can I lose? :)

Put down half of Storm of Swords and all of Feast for Crows between Friday and Saturday - Strep Throat sucks (especially when you miss your ten year high school reunion because of it), but there's something to be said for a nice day of solid reading.

Though I know this thread is made up of and thoroughly warned about spoilers...I still feel the need to throw the warning up there.

In this venture through a Song of Ice and Fire (my third), I've had a bit of a different perspective than I normally do. Sansa was a bit more of a whiny, me-first, selfish brat to me this time through, and I really enjoyed Jaime Lannister's chapters more than I did my first two trips through. I also must have completely brainfaded my first time through A Feast for Crows (it wasn't published my first time through the series), because I completely forgot about Doran's discussion with Arianne near the end about his under-the-table contacts with the Targaryens. I probably should have waited a bit longer to re-read it, since Dance is probably still months away (at least), but this is still one of my favorite series of all time.

While I'm looking forward to everything in Dance, I think the storylines that intrigue me the most are Bran, Quentyn Martell and Davos - I am finding it very hard to believe that he's truly been killed. Though I'm very curious about where Martin is going with the Dondarrion/Catelyn thing, I'm not thrilled with how they were portrayed near the end, and I'm curious as to what happens to Brienne and the rest of the outlaws. Also, the 'High Sparrow' is a very intriguing character to me, and the shambles that Cersei has made of King's Landing will be difficult to sort out, even for a player of Littlefinger's capacity. It seems that the Tyrells, even short one Knight of Flowers, are the strongest family left in Westeros - and you know that Tarly will support them. The Blackfish is out there somewhere, but where does he run? The Lightning Lord would have seemed the perfect place, but with Dondarrion out of the picture, I'm not certain he'd fit in well there. Then there's Littlefinger - what is the true depth of his scheme? He's elevated himself all the way to the Lord Protector of the Vale, and set Sansa up to be incredibly powerful...but in so doing, once the plan comes to fruition he has no tenuous hold on Sansa, plus she will be married. It would seem that his initial goal had been solely to get Ned Stark killed and earn himself a title (Lord of Harrenhal, perhaps?) so that a match with Catelyn would be possible, but Tywin and the Freys nuked that possibility...does he seek revenge? Or continue to amass power? To what end? What is to become of Arya, who is now apparently blind? How will Stannis handle Lord Snow's decision to take away Mance's child secretly? Who will end up with Danaerys - Quentyn Martell? Victarion Greyjoy? Euron Greyjoy? Someone else entirely? I think that Bran Stark may actually be the darkhorse in that race, though that's a completely unfounded whim on my part. What of Nymeria the Direwolf, who has apparently accumulated quite the pack of man-eaters over in Westeros?

So many questions...so few answers. I love this series :)

[flere-imsaho]

Awesome post, Vince. I share many of the same questions, which is clearly what keeps me so interested in seeing the next book.

One that you left out, which I'm also interested in seeing, is what happens to Rickon & Shaggydog when they return to civilization after what I'm going to assume is going to be months and/or years in the wilderness.

[Honolulu_Blue]

With the righteous fury of Schmidty on my side, how can I lose? :)

Put down half of Storm of Swords and all of Feast for Crows between Friday and Saturday - Strep Throat sucks (especially when you miss your ten year high school reunion because of it), but there's something to be said for a nice day of solid reading.

Though I know this thread is made up of and thoroughly warned about spoilers...I still feel the need to throw the warning up there.

In this venture through a Song of Ice and Fire (my third), I've had a bit of a different perspective than I normally do. Sansa was a bit more of a whiny, me-first, selfish brat to me this time through, and I really enjoyed Jaime Lannister's chapters more than I did my first two trips through. I also must have completely brainfaded my first time through A Feast for Crows (it wasn't published my first time through the series), because I completely forgot about Doran's discussion with Arianne near the end about his under-the-table contacts with the Targaryens. I probably should have waited a bit longer to re-read it, since Dance is probably still months away (at least), but this is still one of my favorite series of all time.

While I'm looking forward to everything in Dance, I think the storylines that intrigue me the most are Bran, Quentyn Martell and Davos - I am finding it very hard to believe that he's truly been killed. Though I'm very curious about where Martin is going with the Dondarrion/Catelyn thing, I'm not thrilled with how they were portrayed near the end, and I'm curious as to what happens to Brienne and the rest of the outlaws. Also, the 'High Sparrow' is a very intriguing character to me, and the shambles that Cersei has made of King's Landing will be difficult to sort out, even for a player of Littlefinger's capacity. It seems that the Tyrells, even short one Knight of Flowers, are the strongest family left in Westeros - and you know that Tarly will support them. The Blackfish is out there somewhere, but where does he run? The Lightning Lord would have seemed the perfect place, but with Dondarrion out of the picture, I'm not certain he'd fit in well there. Then there's Littlefinger - what is the true depth of his scheme? He's elevated himself all the way to the Lord Protector of the Vale, and set Sansa up to be incredibly powerful...but in so doing, once the plan comes to fruition he has no tenuous hold on Sansa, plus she will be married. It would seem that his initial goal had been solely to get Ned Stark killed and earn himself a title (Lord of Harrenhal, perhaps?) so that a match with Catelyn would be possible, but Tywin and the Freys nuked that possibility...does he seek revenge? Or continue to amass power? To what end? What is to become of Arya, who is now apparently blind? How will Stannis handle Lord Snow's decision to take away Mance's child secretly? Who will end up with Danaerys - Quentyn Martell? Victarion Greyjoy? Euron Greyjoy? Someone else entirely? I think that Bran Stark may actually be the darkhorse in that race, though that's a completely unfounded whim on my part. What of Nymeria the Direwolf, who has apparently accumulated quite the pack of man-eaters over in Westeros?

So many questions...so few answers. I love this series :)

Great stuff! I've gone through these things 5 times now and have many of the same questions. With each reading I've always become a little more sympathetic to Sansa. Yes, she is whiny and such, but she's only, what, 12? 13? So, I try not to be too hard on her. Jamie's chapters have always been some of my favorites. I still think what Martin was able to do with that character was one of his greatest achievements. He basically made one of the most dispicable characters in the first two books into one of the coolest, most heroic characters and did so in a way that felt completely natural and not at all forced. I loved it.

Here are my thoughts on a few of your questions:

1. I don't think Davos is dead either. Even for Martin that would be weird.

2. For some reason, I've always loved Beric Dondarrion (it's the name I always use for my Football Manager choice) and loved that storyline. The scene with them at the end of Feast was one of my favorites in that book. I've always thought that, while the first three books focused on the wars between the kingdoms, the last 3 (or how many ever) would shift focus to war "among the gods", chiefly between R'hollor and The Other. What's interesting, however, is that while R'hollor certainly seems to be "the good guy" as opposed to The Other, he's clearly not "good".

Melissandre is creepy as all get out and I always thought that the fact that R'hollor took his "gift" from Dondarrion and gave it to Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart was sort of Martin's way of saying that R'hollor is all about chaos and consuming as much as possible. Like Maester Aemon said "fire consumes." Dondarrion and has band was a great vessel for that during the war. They protected the smallfolk, but also killed a great number of "enemies" while at it. Catelyn comes along and, since the war is beginning to die down, she is suddenly much better suited for chaos/consumption because she is so angry and full of rage. Her goal isn't some sort of justice, but simply revenge, making those who wronged her pay. You could really see it in the way Lem, Jack be Lucy, Thoros, etc. had changed. They were sort of burnt out on it all and had lost their way. I think this Martin saying that this isn't a war between "good" and "evil", but just an old war between two gods.

As for what happens to Brienne, I think she calls for the sword and gets free. If not, Martin wasted a LOT of time and paper on a quest that didn't do much.

2. I think the "High Sparrow" is going to be the third element/wildcard in this "religious" war. It will be interesting to see how The Seven fit in with this war between the Other and R'hollor. We really haven't seen any evidence that The Seven has any kind of power at all.

3. As for Littlefinger, I think once he sailed from Kings Landing he gave that all up. He washed his hands of it and decided that his best plan was the Vale. The Vale is the only part of Westeros that was left untouched by the war. They likely have the strongest army and best supplies. I am not sure if he had ever planned to marry Catelyn. He wanted the title of Lord of Harrenhall to marry Lysa. I think he also put his aims on Sansa. He wanted to have her and didn't want her in the hands of the Lannisters or Tyrells. Now, I think he plans to elevate her as Queen of The North and rally the Vale behind her and Harry The Heir. What role he sees for himself, I don't know. Lord of The Vale wouldn't be a bad spot or Hand of the King or something along those lines. I'm sure he has more plans in the making. I think Little Finger also realized that the Vale will never rally around a guy like him, but will around the heir of Winterfell and Harry. So, if he can put that together and rally the Vale, he will have the strongest force in Westeros.

4. I think Arya will only be blind for a bit. I'm sure it's part of her training. I am not sure what Martin is going to do here. How will enough time pass that Arya actually completes her training and becomes a faceless man? It seems like it would take a long time for that to happen. Similarly, how does he make enough time pass for Dany's dragons to grow big enough to be of use? Also, what use is Tyrion now? His power was totally a result of his wits, his family and his wealth. He still has his wits, but neither family nor wealth. He has no real power and his only value would seem to be chopping his head off and sending it to Cersei. What does he do? Tough questions.

5. I love the fact that you have all these outside forces converging on Dany, Quentyn Martell, Victarion, etc. I think, at the end of the day, Dany and Jon Snow could be meant for each other. Though, that'd be a little weird since Jon is (most likely) technically Dany's uncle. Still, they are Targaryens, so that kind of thing happens.

6. I think Stannis will be pissed, no doubt. What he can do about it, is another matter. Stannis gets a lot of flak and, while he's annoying at times, like Sansa, the more I read the more sympathy I feel for the guy.

7. Not sure where the Blackfish will end up. He's awesome though. The only Tully worth anything.

Other questions I have is what role will those characters like Jamie, Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, etc. eventually play at the end?

What about that small group of Northerners that Rob sent north before the Red Wedding to find Howland Reed? What comes of that group, if anything?

I'm sure there are dozens more...

[flere-imsaho]

I think you're spot on regarding Littlefinger. He's smart enough to know he's never going to be an outright leader, and operates more effectively behind the scenes anyway.

[DaddyTorgo]

There's so much going on in these books...it's just unreal. So many strands.

[Autumn]

I second his achievement with Jaime. I have a friend who I just got started on these. He keeps me updated on what he's reading, and at this point he 1) doesn't even remember Jaime's name, but 2) thinks he's about the worst person he's ever read about. I really had to work hard to keep my mouth shut, instead of yelling, "I know! And the most astounding thing is that in a few books you'll be rooting for him more than anyone." It truly is part of what makes this series great.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I think that my favorite part about the whole thing is that he [Martin] can go for thousands of pages about different people, plotlines, families, etc, and then introduce a whole new set of main characters like the Martells in Dorne, and have me completely hooked on them from the get-go.

HB, I think you're totally spot-on with R'hollor - fire consumes is a perfect way to put it. And my disappointment with what happens to the Lightning Lord's band stems more from my love of Dondarrion's character than from anything else, I think. I was very sad to see him leave the picture. The transition from a Robin-Hood esque band looking out for the little people to a group that is more about consumption and survival (which I think was most notable in Lem's disposition towards Brienne at the end) does seem very natural towards the end of the war. I also found it odd that Tom 'o Sevens was with the Freys near the end - reconnaisance perhaps? Or a falling-out with the rest as Catelyn took over for Dondarrion?

Regarding the High Sparrow and others...I think another fantastic achievement of Martin is his wonderful juxtaposition of religious conflict versus political conflict. The inclusion of the Seven, the Old Gods of the North, R'hollor vs. the Other, the Drowned God, the Many-Faced God of the Faceless Men, and even the myriad of gods touched on but not introduced throughout Danaerys' storyline. Speaking of R'hollor, though - I wonder if indeed he's even a "good" guy. Melisandre is certainly all about fire is life, light is good...but her fruits seem to be pretty dark in nature. From the shadowy creatures that she spawned to kill Renly and the Castellan of Storm's End to the fact that she requires human sacrifice of innocents to fulfill them, R'hollor doesn't exactly sound like my kind of deity. Even though he's been the vessel for Dondarrion's continued resurrections (a known good guy), Dondarrion isn't exactly a healthy looking guy after each, and Lady Catelyn is downright frightening after hers. Now, Martin is wonderful at blurring the lines between good and evil, so who's to say there even IS a good guy/bad guy in the religious war - but I'm not so sold on R'hollor even leaning towards the good side, even though some notably "good" characters (Stannis, Dondarrion, Thoros) have fallen in with him.

As for Littlefinger - I'm not so sure. At first, I was certain that as such an intelligent, amazing player of the Game of Thrones he'd have to realize that his true strength was in being behind the scenes, and that as Master of Coin he was in a nearly perfect position to influence everything - to be the man behind the curtain, so to speak. But he HAS to have some sort of motive for setting this entire thing in motion, does he not? He urged Lysa to kill Jon Arryn, which was really the beginning of everything. The eventual large result (for him, anyways) was his being named Lord of Harrenhal and Ruler of the Trident - which led me to believe his motive for that was to remove Ned Stark from the picture, but that's just a guess. It's obvious now that he wants Sansa - but he can't remove Harry the Heir without invalidating their power in the Vale. Though he was able to turn the Lords Declarant aside easily (brilliant move buying out Lyn Corbray, by the way), to get further power (that has to be his goal, doesn't it?) at some point he has to stop scheming and LAND, doesn't he? Or perhaps it's all for the game... That being said...if his true goal is to end up in a position of power, why in blazes would he go after the North? They seem to be in the most chaotic position of everyone - Winterfell is in ruins, the Krakens still control the neck as far as anyone knows, and the majority of the lords of the North have taken huge casualties between The Mountain that Rides, Bolton's treachery (who else was convinced that the Bolton Bastard and Bolton himself were in cahoots the whole time?), the Red Wedding, and the general fall-out of the war. Also, he seemed to be the most informed man at court who wasn't Varys (also a player I'm interested to see where he landed...my guess is wherever Tyrion went - Jaime pretty much ruined his place at court), so he has to have at least SOME inkling of what is going on up at the Wall, and I'm certain that he wouldn't want to have to deal with an Army of Wildlings and Stannis Baratheon.

Though I guess he has nowhere else to go, really - the Trident is just as mucked up as the North, the Freys, while buying Lannister favors, have completely alienated themselves from everyone else as now no one in the world will trust them with anything and the entire North hates them with a passion. Which brings up an interesting thought - where does Catelyn turn first? On the Freys or the Lannisters?

As for the Blackfish, my initial thought is that he'll try to rally up some of the Northerners, but the problem is that he'd have to leave the Riverlands to do it, and while he was totally all-in with the Young Wolf, he strikes me as more of an 'I'm going to make life at Riverrun completely and horribly terrible for anyone and everyone now' sort of guy.

And all of this is completely ignoring the "real" threat - what is behind the Others, the Wights, and all of the unnatural things that led the Wildlings to come down in the first place?

I could talk about this stuff for days :)

[Vince, Pt. II]

Ah, something I totally forgot to mention in either post...

People have been making a pretty big deal about Robert's bastard children throughout the book. I'm wondering if there's something more to it than simply proving Cersei and Jaime Lannister's crimes? Mya Stone, Gendry the Smith, Edric Storm - even after the incest plot line has become less than important to the story, Martin has gone out of his way to have characters notice and comment on these bastards and realize how much they look like Robert. I understand that with Edric it was mostly about Melisandre's need for royal blood...but is there going to be a revelation at some point to the general public to further confuse things in King's Landing? For a while I was utterly convinced that Arya and Gendry were going to end up together, uniting the North and possibly more...but now I don't think that's possible.

Also, Kevan Lannister...what of him? He strikes me very much similar to Barristan Selmy's character - insulted (without reason) and sent off irritated, but he has nowhere to go, especially now that Lancel has decided to take on vows as a holy knight. What becomes of him now?

EDIT - As a final thought for my Littlefinger rant...

I guess what it all comes down to is how does Martin see Littlefinger? Is he smart enough to know where to stop? Or does he truly think he's better than everyone else and he will keep reaching? While the trial of Tyrion made for very entertaining reading (not humorous, just a great read), I was a little disappointed in it in that it sort of removed Tyrion as a player. Like HB said, he now has no power to back up his intellect - and while said intellect is prodigious, it counts for nothing by itself. I was very much looking forward to watching Littlfinger and Tyrion spar, but very quickly after Tyrion rose to power in King's Landing, Petyr took off. Was that intentional or happenstance? I'm hoping we can see Tyrion continue to be a major piece, because he seems to be the only one (outside of maybe Tywin Lannister or the Queen of Thorns) who is a match for Petyr Baelish.

[flere-imsaho]

I haven't got a fix on Baelish's root motivation, so it's hard to tell what he's going to do next/where he'll stop. The best I can guess is that he'll sell the power of the Vale (under Harry & Sansa) to the highest bidder of the current contestants and get some rich lands/titles out of it to increase his wealth.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I think the root of Little Finger's motivation is two-fold: One is his obsession with Catelyn, which, has now, become an obsession with Sansa. It's odd, it's unsettling, and, I think, will ultimately be his undoing. I'm sure he has some grand scheme in mind in which he raises Sansa to some position of great power, which, in turn, gives him more power, but despite all of his plots and wits and schemes, Little Finger, at his core, is all about Catelyn/Sansa. It's an obsession that his driven him since he was a kid and (hopefully) will lead to a mis-step that leads to his downfall. He's a great, entertaining character, but he has it coming...

There's no way Martin is going to totally write Tyrion off. He's admitted, over and over again, that Tyrion is his favorite character. I just don't know how Martin will be able to make Tyrion relevant again. He's a total outcast and it's not like he can move around freely in Westeros at all. That would lead him to the Free Cities and possibly meeting up with Dany, but I have no idea why she would do anything but kill him out right. She hates the Lannisters and it's not like anyone around her would concil that she accept Tyrion. I really feel like this is one of the several corners Martin has written himself into.

One possibility for the Blackfish is to head back to the Vale. That's where he was originally. Either there, or perhaps he could try to find some River Lords who are still somewhat loyal to Riverrun and try to stir up trouble. He's far too cool a character to simply disappear.

I'm not really sure what role, if any, Robert's various bastards will play.

As for R'hollor, I don't think he's particularly "good" either. Dondarrion certainly didn't think so after 5th/6th time he was brought back to life. The "Other" seems like a pretty malevolent force, however. Also tied up in this religious/mystical battle are the Old Gods. In that corner, we (may) have Cold Hands/Bran. Cold Hands seemed to be an odd mix of mainly the Old Gods (riding an elk, control over the ravens) and the Others (cold, black hands like the undead), so I'm not 100% sure where he falls in the spectrum.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Good point about the Vale and the Blackfish. He'd certainly recognize Sansa, wouldn't he? If only because she looks so very much like Catelyn...perhaps there is where Littlefinger begins his fall? I'm with you in that I think that his obsession with Cat/Sansa is definitely going to be what brings him down, and that he is going down.

I also agree that Tyrion isn't going to disappear, I should have probably made it clear that I wanted him to remain a major piece in Westeros, but like you said, Martin seems to have written himself into a corner with that one. To me, some of the most enjoyable reading in the series was from the time Tyrion was made Hand until the end of the battle for King's Landing.

I love how Martin can create characters that are not at all involved in the story, and have them be so impressive. Arthur Dayne might make a Mt. Rushmore of amazing fictional literary heroes for me, and he's dead this whole series. Incredible :)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yeah, Tyrion as the Hand of the King was fantastic. It was great to see all the political machinations going on in Kings Landing from the perspective of someone who is either not an idiot (Cersei) or 13 (Sansa). It was great stuff.

Another thing about the Brotherhood without Banners. I, too, was a bit confused as to whether there was faction split among them, with some like Lem, Thoros, etc. following Catelyn and others (Tom O Sevens, Anguy, etc.) deciding enough is enough and splitting off on their own. I think it may be the former. I got the impression based on Tom's brief conversation with Jamie that he was at Riverrun sort of getting the lay of the land, figuring out who was travelling where and when and then coming back to report to the main group to set up an ambush. I think he inquired about where Jamie was going and said it was "too bad" or "disappointing" that he wasn't leaving.

I totally agree about all of the historical characters. It's very compelling part of that world. The history and the characters who have been long dead since before the books started feel so real and loom like shadows over the rest of the characters. Rhaeger, Arthur Dane, the White Bull, the Smiling Knight, all those "legendary" characters are really brought to life in a way that, again, feels completely natural.

I also wonder if Martin has any further plans for the Hound. While I wouldn't put it past him to simply have the Hound written off to spend the rest of his days on that island working in silence, I would love for him to come back in some fashion. I'm secretly hoping that if he hears that Gregor is still "alive" that will be enough to convince him to get back into the game. He's another character, like Jamie, who you start off hating but, despite never not being quite brutal, becomes a very sympathetic and cool character.

[cschex]

I also agree that Tyrion isn't going to disappear, I should have probably made it clear that I wanted him to remain a major piece in Westeros, but like you said, Martin seems to have written himself into a corner with that one. To me, some of the most enjoyable reading in the series was from the time Tyrion was made Hand until the end of the battle for King's Landing.

I love how Martin can create characters that are not at all involved in the story, and have them be so impressive. Arthur Dayne might make a Mt. Rushmore of amazing fictional literary heroes for me, and he's dead this whole series. Incredible :)

The Tyrion arc in aCoK is fantastic, all the more so because Martin convinces you all of Tyrion's plotting will work out and in the end he saves KL but all of his power and plots come crashing down. I think Martin has come up with a way for Danyto accept him: The Varys/Illyrio connection, with Illyrio being the conduit with which he gets delivered to Dany.

Totally agree on Arthur Dayne. The flashback scene in Ned's last POV is probably my favorite scene in any book I've ever read.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Totally agree on Arthur Dayne. The flashback scene in Ned's last POV is probably my favorite scene in any book I've ever read.

I agree. That is my favorite scene in the series as well. I've read it over dozens of times.

[terpkristin]

Why does all this cool talk start up right when work is having issues out the ying-yang?!?!! :(

/tk

[Bad-example]

I also wonder if Martin has any further plans for the Hound. While I wouldn't put it past him to simply have the Hound written off to spend the rest of his days on that island working in silence, I would love for him to come back in some fashion. I'm secretly hoping that if he hears that Gregor is still "alive" that will be enough to convince him to get back into the game.

It has been a while since I read these, but both Gregor and the Hound are dead, right? Arry did the Hound a favor by killing him. And the Red Viper took care of his brother.

edit - I looked on wiki and read up. Arry refused to kill the Hound and there is apparently a loophole regarding Gregor's death.

[Honolulu_Blue]

It has been a while since I read these, but both Gregor and the Hound are dead, right? Arry did the Hound a favor by killing him. And the Red Viper took care of his brother.

Well... sorta. Kinda.

Arya didn't kill the Hound. He asked her to do it, but she refused to and just left him to die. Later on, in Feast, Brienne and company go to Quiet Island and meet up with a priest there. He tells them that he found that he found Sandor Clegane feverish and dying under a tree, that they talked, and that Sandor is dead and that he left his helmet at his grave site. However, many believe (including me), that Sandor Clegane is "dead" very much in the way that Obi Wan Kenobi told Luke Anakin Skywalker was "dead". The man that he was is dead, not the new person. There is a silent brother on the island who is described as being huge and having a bad limp (consistent with the Hound's wounds he suffered at the Inn). His face is covered, like the rest, so you don't see the scars, but he throws dirt at Brienne's feet, showing his well documented disgust of knights. The island also has his horse, Stranger.

As for Gregor, he was dying for a long time due to the Red Viper's poison, however, at multiple times throughout Feast Qyburn keeps talking about his experiments he's doing with Gregor's body (they sent a massive skull to Dorne as proof of his Gregor's death, but it was not Gregor's) and Qyburn has a huge suit of armor made that no man could wear. At the end of Feast, he tells Cersei that her "champion" is ready. Many believe (including me) that Qyburn is dabbling with dark arts and has some how animated Gregor's corpse (perhaps something similar to the Other's magic or something) and that this un-dead (or mostly dead) Gregorstein will be Cersei's champion, assuming it comes to that, in her trial for innocence.

[DaddyTorgo]

Good point about the Vale and the Blackfish. He'd certainly recognize Sansa, wouldn't he? If only because she looks so very much like Catelyn...perhaps there is where Littlefinger begins his fall? I'm with you in that I think that his obsession with Cat/Sansa is definitely going to be what brings him down, and that he is going down.

I also agree that Tyrion isn't going to disappear, I should have probably made it clear that I wanted him to remain a major piece in Westeros, but like you said, Martin seems to have written himself into a corner with that one. To me, some of the most enjoyable reading in the series was from the time Tyrion was made Hand until the end of the battle for King's Landing.

I love how Martin can create characters that are not at all involved in the story, and have them be so impressive. Arthur Dayne might make a Mt. Rushmore of amazing fictional literary heroes for me, and he's dead this whole series. Incredible :)

Arthur Dayne is probably one of my favorite characters in the whole series, and he's not even alive. Well him and the White Bull. I'd love to see some fic (well written fanfic or GRRM-written fic) dealing with the Targ-days

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree. That is my favorite scene in the series as well. I've read it over dozens of times.

i forget this scene, but i'm rereading anyways...

[Honolulu_Blue]

i forget this scene, but i'm rereading anyways...

It's sort of a dream sequence right after Ned breaks his leg. It's his memory of when he, Howland Reed, and five others ride down to find Lyana and she's being guarded by three of the Kingsguard, Arthur Dayne, the White Bull, and Oswell Whent.

[DaddyTorgo]

It's sort of a dream sequence right after Ned breaks his leg. It's his memory of when he, Howland Reed, and five others ride down to find Lyana and she's being guarded by three of the Kingsguard, Arthur Dayne, the White Bull, and Oswell Whent.

oh yeah...that scene *nods* thought maybe you were referring to something else that i didn't quite remember.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Why does all this cool talk start up right when work is having issues out the ying-yang?!?!! :(

/tk

I just picked the wrong time to come back. My bad :) Hurry up and get your work to fix their crap, I want to hear you weigh in on this stuff.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Anyone else think that it might not have been Cersei who paid off the Kingsguard knight (whose name is escaping me right now) to kill Tyrion? Personally, I think it's a coin-flip between her and Littlefinger.

Also, poor Podrick Payne - kid seems to be forgotten by everyone, and ends up getting hanged with Brienne.

[Schmidty]

I have a lot of things to say. I wish I didn't suck and typing, and that I am so damned lazy.

Jaime is one of the greatest characters I've ever read.

That's all I have right now. Work is too close, and I am the Strongman tomorrow. Time to sleep and focus.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Anyone else think that it might not have been Cersei who paid off the Kingsguard knight (whose name is escaping me right now) to kill Tyrion? Personally, I think it's a coin-flip between her and Littlefinger.

Also, poor Podrick Payne - kid seems to be forgotten by everyone, and ends up getting hanged with Brienne.

I never considered that anyone other than Cersei was the one who paid off Mandon Moore (or was it Meryn Trant, I always get those two confused) to try and kill Tyrion. I don't think it was ever answered definitively, but I'm almost positive it was her, especially since Little Finger had been out of Kings Landing for so long leading up to that (he was out bargaining with the Tyrells).

[flere-imsaho]

I speculate that Baelish's original motivation was Catelyn, and his machinations in the first book were to raise himself to a high enough point of prestige to, once Ned was out of the way, get her for himself.

Further, I think he took Sansa with him to the Vale for two reasons. First, as a potential bargaining chip/asset for the future, and second, for sentimental reasons as she's Catelyn's daughter after all. I believe he had some real feelings for Lysa (possibly a transfer from Catelyn), but when she threatened Sansa and, by extension, everything he had built up, he wasn't sentimental enough to not get rid of her as necessary.

I think Sansa will be Peter's undoing if he ends up transferring his feelings from Catelyn to her, but I'm generally not of the opinion that he'll do that. In general he's a pretty logical character, and so at this point you'd guess his motivation is power, prestige and security. Maneuvering Sansa & Harry back on to the throne and somehow uniting Westeros in the process (or subjugating, same difference) accomplishes this for him and also takes into account the fact (that he must know) that he can't be king himself.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I've always felt that Little Finger's feelings for Sansa went well beyond "sentimental" and that he's already transferred his feelings from Cat to her. While it's hard to say exactly, since all we get is Sansa's perspective on it, he's often described as looking at her intensely and then there was that long kiss between the two of them at the end of Storm of Swords. He's also commented a couple of times about how much she looks like Cat and is, perhaps, even more beautiful. A lot of his interaction with her is also quite flirtatious.

Lysa saw that kiss and that's why she started to threaten Sansa. I don't think Little Finger had planned to kill Lysa so quickly (if at all), but at that point, I think he killed her for two reasons: 1) She was a total liability to his plans and 2) that she threatend to kill Sansa.

I think he sort of tried to settle for Lysa once it was obvious that he couldn't have Cat. She was mad about him, but I don't think he ever truly felt she an adequate replacement. His feelings towards Cat have always been described as sort of bordering on obsession. He even went so far as to try and fight Brandon Stark for her hand, even though there was no he was ever going to win. Even though he was young when that all happened, it was a very un-Little Finger type move.

Like was mentioned, much that went in all of these books, much of the cause of the war between the Lannisters and the Starks (Lysa's letter telling Cat that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn), is a result of Little Finger's schemes to get Cat back or, at the very least, bring down the Starks for taking her from him.

Little Finger is very logical and incredibly smart, but I do think his obsession for Cat/Sansa will eventually bring him down. He's a bit like Tyrion in that. Tyrion has that weakness for whores (really, all he wants to be is loved, but, other than Tysha, who he had always believed was a whore, whores were the only place he could find it) and that's always sort of trumped his otherwise very reasonable and intelligent plans.

[cschex]

Anyone else think that it might not have been Cersei who paid off the Kingsguard knight (whose name is escaping me right now) to kill Tyrion? Personally, I think it's a coin-flip between her and Littlefinger.

Also, poor Podrick Payne - kid seems to be forgotten by everyone, and ends up getting hanged with Brienne.


I've always believed this to be Littlefinger for two main reasons. The first is hiring a Kingsguard isn't Cersei's style at all, she would order him to kill Tyrion in Joffrey's name. Also, it's too subtle for her. The other (stronger) reason is that Mandon Moore is from the Vale like Littlefinger, and we know how much influence Littlefinger had with mercenaries and minor houses in the Vale who came to KL (see Kettleblacks). It's not a strech that he would have been on LF's payroll the whole time he was a KG.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I've always believed this to be Littlefinger for two main reasons. The first is hiring a Kingsguard isn't Cersei's style at all, she would order him to kill Tyrion in Joffrey's name. Also, it's too subtle for her. The other (stronger) reason is that Mandon Moore is from the Vale like Littlefinger, and we know how much influence Littlefinger had with mercenaries and minor houses in the Vale who came to KL (see Kettleblacks). It's not a strech that he would have been on LF's payroll the whole time he was a KG.

You know, the more I think about it could have been LF. If Cersei had done it, it would have almost certainly come up in one of POV chapters in Feast For Crows. There's no way that, at some point, she wouldn't have thought that her sweet Joffery would still be alive if Mandon Moore had done as she asked. Given that and the fact that Tyrion found no evidence that Moore was connected to Cersei does hint that it was something else.

Given that he was from the Vale and that Little Finger had already tried to get rid of Tyrion, by telling Cat that it was his dagger that the catspaw had to kill Bran, it would make it very possible that Little Finger was involved.

I guess there is a third option: Joffery. He was the King and was certainly not above ordering his Kingsguard to do his dirty work (i.e., beating up Sansa). He already asked the catspaw to kill Bran and certainly had no love, whatsoever, for Tyrion. So, asking Moore to kill Tyrion during the battle is certainly consistent with his MO.

[finketr]

I see plans within plans within plans.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I never thought about Joff - that could very well be it as well. Especially since even with Petyr's amazing grasp of things, how could he possibly think that Tyrion would ever be in a place where a Knight of the Kingsguard could conceivably just 'off' Tyrion and get away with it? It's almost to the point where any time someone in the books is SURE of something, I assume it's wrong. Tyrion is so convinced that it was his sister (with no evidence), he almost has to be wrong. Also, I think Cersei is almost certainly wrong in thinking that Tyrion is the one referenced in her visit to 'Maggy the Frog' the maegi from her childhood. If we remember correctly, Jaime is also her valonqar, as the Martells so nicely pointed out, since she was born first. I think it would be a delicious bit of irony if it were Jaime who was the one who cost her everything - and by burning Cersei's final, begging request for help, he may have done just that.

As for Littlefinger, I don't think he EVER thought of Lysa as anything more than a catspaw. She's far too simpering, imbecilic..whatever. While she may have been a replacement for Cat if she looked and/or acted as she did when she was younger, I don't think that there ever could have been a replacement for Cat until Cat was dead - unless it were Sansa, of course. A younger, more beautiful model of the original whom he could mold to be whatever and however he wanted? The perfect goal. By the time Catelyn was dead, though, Lysa was simply a wreck - overweight, pasty, frightened and completely oversensitive to everything. I think he eventually would have HAD to kill Lysa - the only thing that Lysa loved more than Petyr was her baby boy, and the way that she babied him would have NEVER fit into his plans. I actually wouldn't have put it past Petyr to have planned that kiss intentionally for that time as it was - there wasn't anything in the Vale that was getting any better or stronger while he waited, and the situation around the rest of Westeros was getting more and more grim as the days went on. As soon as he had Sansa, he had the tools to remove Lysa completely - Lysa and Robert Arryn were the only two things between Harry the Heir and the control of the Vale, and with Sansa already flowered, all he had to do was set up the contracts and the Vale was his. He would have known how Lysa would react (insane jealousy) if she caught him kissing her, and he had to have known she would be watching...

I'm just wondering what he plans to do with Harry the Heir after the wedding...without him, he loses the Vale.

[Edward64]

Short update for those still interested.
Not A Blog - Dance, Dance, Dance (http://grrm.livejournal.com/113041.html)

Finished a Jon Snow chapter, and have just passed the 1100 page (manuscript pages, the page count in the final printed book will be different) mark on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS. That's counting only finished chapters in something close to final form. I have considerably more in partials, fragments, and roughs.

Even with just the finished portions, DANCE is now longer than A FEAST FOR CROWS and A GAME OF THRONES, and I'm closing in on A CLASH OF KINGS. I do hope I can wrap things up before I approach the 1521 page length of A STORM OF SWORDS.

Making a new run at the Meereenese knot, but maybe not tomorrow. I think I'll hang around at the Wall a bit longer, and maybe visit Winterfell.

[aran]

I estimated how much longer it'd take him to finish the book at 1100 pages since a year after AFFC if he's going to finish at 1500 pages.

It's going to be another two years.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Maybe I've missed it...is he intending to finish the whole thing with Dance? I thought this would be just another book, not the climax.

[Chief Rum]

Maybe I've missed it...is he intending to finish the whole thing with Dance? I thought this would be just another book, not the climax.

Where do you get the idea he's finishing with Dance?

[Vince, Pt. II]

Well, I never thought that this was going to be the finish. It just seems that with 1100 pages already in the books, and he only HOPING that he'll be done before 1500, that he may be trying to put too much into this one. Then again, I think about who George R.R. Martin is, and it makes a bunch more sense :)

[flere-imsaho]

It's easier to just assume he's never actually going to finish and may in fact not publish another book until after he's dead, and then be pleasantly surprised by anything that does get finished/published.

:D

[Galaril]

Most like a year or two more for this one. Afetr that who knows. A year off or two then another 6-8 years for the next book which means something like 2018-2022. I think he mentioned a while back the series would 7 books so the Final book would be coming out in the 2025-2030 range:0........That is if he could possibly live that long which is not likely for the looks of him.

[Schmidty]

Most like a year or two more for this one. Afetr that who knows. A year off or two then another 6-8 years for the next book which means something like 2018-2022. I think he mentioned a while back the series would 7 books so the Final book would be coming out in the 2025-2030 range:0........That is if he could possibly live that long which is not likely for the looks of him.

Maybe he can at least leave us his rough outline for the final two books if he dies, so at least we know what the hell happens to resolve the series....

[Honolulu_Blue]

They have casted Kal Drogo. The actor is Jason Momoa. I have never seen him in anything. It looks like he's a TV guy and has two kids with Denise Huxtable. Since he doesn't really speak much, all he really needs to do is look the part, which, I'd say, he totally does:

http://l.yimg.com/l/tv/us/img/site/91/30/0000039130_20070413145208.jpg

[DaddyTorgo]

They have casted Kal Drogo. The actor is Jason Momoa. I have never seen him in anything. It looks like he's a TV guy and has two kids with Denise Huxtable. Since he doesn't really speak much, all he really needs to do is look the part, which, I'd say, he totally does:

http://l.yimg.com/l/tv/us/img/site/91/30/0000039130_20070413145208.jpg

he was on Andromeda with Kevin Sorbo wasn't he?

he'll be great as Drogo...like you said - looks the part and is a good enough actor to pull it off IMO

[Galaril]

he was on Andromeda with Kevin Sorbo wasn't he?

he'll be great as Drogo...like you said - looks the part and is a good enough actor to pull it off IMO

He was one of the co-stars on Star Gate Atlantis on the syfy channel for 4-5 seasons. He was pretty good and will hit this roll real well.

[JeeberD]

I always pictured Drogo as a little bit older, but I think he'll do in a pinch...

[Schmidty]

He looks like a damned Klingon.

I'm not feeling this pick.

[Schmidty]

http://www.everyjoe.com/squibkick/files/2007/01/worf.jpg

[MrBug708]

Who did you have pictured as Drogo?

[Honolulu_Blue]

He looks like a damned Klingon.

I'm not feeling this pick.

Who did you have pictured as Drogo?

Seriously. Based on his description in the book and all the artistic representations I've seen, the look pretty much nails Drogo.

And the comparison to Worf isn't all that off. And I mean that in a positive way.

[Schmidty]

Who did you have pictured as Drogo?

Not Worf, that's for darned sure.

I guess I always picture him as looking more like a really tall native american or something.

[RendeR]

Not Worf, that's for darned sure.

I guess I always picture him as looking more like a really tall native american or something.

The description is pretty solidly Mongolian in styling and appearance. not sure how you could get native american out of that but I've actually read stranger ideas. Someone posted on a sci-fi board I used to go to that she always pictured Drogo and his goons as vikings. I mean WTF?

[Galaril]

The description is pretty solidly Mongolian in styling and appearance. not sure how you could get native american out of that but I've actually read stranger ideas. Someone posted on a sci-fi board I used to go to that she always pictured Drogo and his goons as vikings. I mean WTF?

Totally Mongolian feel I agree.

[lordscarlet]

Not Worf, that's for darned sure.

I guess I always picture him as looking more like a really tall native american or something.

I also got that feel. I would have to go back to the original description, but that was what I had always pictured. I can definitely see Mongolian in the Khan mold, now that it has been mentioned, but I always saw him as similar to Native Americans.

[DaddyTorgo]

no no no...totally mongolian - all the horses and the riding-culture and stuff didn't bring up echos of Mongols sweeping into Europe?

[lighthousekeeper]

no no no...totally mongolian

http://www.performabilities.org/Chris%20Burke03a.jpg

[Edward64]

The description is pretty solidly Mongolian in styling and appearance. not sure how you could get native american out of that but I've actually read stranger ideas. Someone posted on a sci-fi board I used to go to that she always pictured Drogo and his goons as vikings. I mean WTF?
Jason doesn't look mongolian to me. Am I missing something?

[Vince, Pt. II]

I saw the picture before I read any of the post, and my first thought was 'Drogo,' so that had to be something good :)

Wonderful casting, in my opinion. I've never seen the guy act, but even if he's remotely decent, he looks brilliant already.

[terpkristin]

Maybe some reason to be optimistic?

Posted on Jan 28th: Not A Blog - Dancing (http://grrm.livejournal.com/129885.html)
Snowing like hell in Santa Fe today. I feel like Jon Snow on the Wall. White everywhere I look, and still coming down.

Of course, I'm writing about Meereen, where the weather is hot and muggy, oppressive. If the snow keeps falling, I better take it as an omen, switch to a Jon chapter tomorrow.

The good news: finished a chapter today.

The bad news: it's one I've finished at least four times before.

This time, though, I think I finally got it right. We'll see. Still whacking at the Meereenese knot.

I took an especially vigorous hack two days ago, by switching to a new POV. It seems to have helped. Helps to have a pair of eyes on the inside rather than the outside here. And back story works better in recollections than in dialogue.

Let's hope that when next week comes, I still like what I did this week.

Writing, writing..

And, it looks like there's a cover to the book, posted on Jan 29th: Not A Blog - A Good Day, With Snow (http://grrm.livejournal.com/130165.html)

/tk

[mrsimperless]

They have casted Kal Drogo. The actor is Jason Momoa. I have never seen him in anything. It looks like he's a TV guy and has two kids with Denise Huxtable. Since he doesn't really speak much, all he really needs to do is look the part, which, I'd say, he totally does:

http://l.yimg.com/l/tv/us/img/site/91/30/0000039130_20070413145208.jpg

Ahhh, the Uncle Rico pose. That's my preferred stance at the beach.

[ISiddiqui]

The good news: finished a chapter today.

The bad news: it's one I've finished at least four times before.

*cries*

[flere-imsaho]

Prediction: J.D. Salinger will publish his next book earlier than Martin's next ASOIAF book.

And yes, I know Salinger died this week (RIP).

[Galaril]

Prediction: J.D. Salinger will publish his next book earlier than Martin's next ASOIAF book.

And yes, I know Salinger died this week (RIP).

Yup I loved his books and read them a couple of times but stop following his blog like over a year ago. I have since moved on to The The Sword of Truth series which is 11 books and the writer actually finished the story line in it. I would recommend people check it out. I am currently listening to it in its audio book format and it is excellent.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Prediction: J.D. Salinger will publish his next book earlier than Martin's next ASOIAF book.

Heh! That's a good one.

Anyone see that the guy (up above) playing Khal Drogo is also playing Conan in the new Conan movie? Personally, I think he makes a better Drogo than a Conan, but whatever.

[Fidatelo]

That guy doesn't look Irish at all!

[Chief Rum]

That guy doesn't look Irish at all!

Irish? Did I miss a reference?

[Fidatelo]

Irish? Did I miss a reference?

I should have quoted the post above mine, but i was rushed. Anyways, it's a lame Conan joke.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yup I loved his books and read them a couple of times but stop following his blog like over a year ago. I have since moved on to The The Sword of Truth series which is 11 books and the writer actually finished the story line in it. I would recommend people check it out. I am currently listening to it in its audio book format and it is excellent.

He finished the Sword of Truth? I quit around the 7th or 8th book - it was just the same stuff over and over again in each book, it seemed like.

[Galaril]

He finished the Sword of Truth? I quit around the 7th or 8th book - it was just the same stuff over and over again in each book, it seemed like.

Yaeh 11 books. I guess your may miles vary. I liked it and like I said at least the story was completed unlike Martins who nbe lucky to get the next book completed before he crocks let alone the series (3-4 more books)

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yaeh 11 books. I guess your may miles vary. I liked it and like I said at least the story was completed unlike Martins who nbe lucky to get the next book completed before he crocks let alone the series (3-4 more books)

Well for the record, I really, REALLY enjoyed the first three or four books in the series. By about book 5 though, it just seemed like every book is "Richard gets separated from Kahlan, has to find/fight his way back to her, rinse, repeat, over."

[3ric]

Well for the record, I really, REALLY enjoyed the first three or four books in the series. By about book 5 though, it just seemed like every book is "Richard gets separated from Kahlan, has to find/fight his way back to her, rinse, repeat, over."

Yeah, me too. Loved the first book, great scenery, great concept... but story wise it just got too repetitive and I gave up after book 5 or so.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Alan Sepinwall tweets that "Game of Thrones" has been greenlit to series at HBO.

http://twitter.com/sepinwall/statuses/9888133082

[DaddyTorgo]

yes!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Sweet!

Though I have no idea who Alan Sepinwall is or why he'd know this.

[ISiddiqui]

This Conservative Party slogan spoof is spot on and AWESOME:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Books/Pix/pictures/2010/2/16/1266322675403/George-RR-Martin-spoof-To-001.jpg

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Though I have no idea who Alan Sepinwall is or why he'd know this.

Sorry. He's one of the bigger TV bloggers (along with Tim Goodman). He writes for the NJ Star-Ledger.

What's Alan Watching? (http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/)

[Honolulu_Blue]

A couple of more links with the news (a picture from the pilot is in the links):
(http://www.thrfeed.com/2010/03/hbo-greenlights-game-of-thrones-.html)


HBO greenlights 'Game of Thrones' to series (pic)

Winter is, indeed, coming.

HBO has greenlighted highly anticipated fantasy series "Game of Thrones."
The premium network has picked up the project for a first season debut next spring (below is the first released photo from the series). Nine episodes plus the pilot have been ordered. Production will begin in Belfast this June.


From the moment the project was first announced (http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/11/hbo-orders-fant.html) in development, the series based on the George R.R. Martin novels has generated enormous, perhaps unprecedented, online interest for a series at such an early stage.

The sprawling tale set in the mythical land of Westeros tells the story of the noble Stark family who become caught up in high court intrigue when patriarch Eddard (played by Sean Bean) becomes the king's new right-hand man. The four-and-counting books in the series would each be used as one season of the series.

Unlike many fantasy novels, the "Thrones" series largely avoids relying on magical elements and instead goes for brutal realism -- think "Sopranos" with swords. Martin, a former TV writer ("Beauty and the Beast"), writes each chapter as a cliffhanger, which should lend itself well to series translation.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/03/game-of-thrones-hbo-george-rr-martin-.html (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/03/game-of-thrones-hbo-george-rr-martin-.html)

[DaddyTorgo]

great...either the hollywood reporter or the "In a Land Called Colorado" banner ad up top is spyware infested.

that picture looked hella sweet though. i can't wait!

[DaddyTorgo]

well...it's the "In a Land Called Colorado" banner ad. how does one report those to OS?

[terpkristin]

Yay yay yay yay yay yay yay!

I'd do a dance but I'd probably end up hurting myself.

/tk

[Schmidty]

This is great news, but I'm really starting to intensley dislike Martin. He seems like a lazy tool who's resting on his laurels and just dipshitting around while his fans wait. Yeah, yeah, he doesn't owe his fans anything, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, but he does. His fans bought his books, and he promised to continue to finish the series. But I mean, 5 YEARS?!?!?!?! I don't care how complicated crap like the "Meerish Knot" or whatever his other excuses are, it should not take that long.

I don't know, he just seems like an excuse-making, procrastinating, self-indulged dumbass.

I can't wait for his next book though.

[MrBug708]

HE OWES US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Schmidty]

HE OWES US ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

If that was sarcastic, then my response is "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heard that argument a million times, and that's a simplification of the point". If it's not sarcasm, then I still don't agree, because that's not the whole point either.

[DaddyTorgo]

This is great news, but I'm really starting to intensley dislike Martin. He seems like a lazy tool who's resting on his laurels and just dipshitting around while his fans wait. Yeah, yeah, he doesn't owe his fans anything, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, but he does. His fans bought his books, and he promised to continue to finish the series. But I mean, 5 YEARS?!?!?!?! I don't care how complicated crap like the "Meerish Knot" or whatever his other excuses are, it should not take that long.

I don't know, he just seems like an excuse-making, procrastinating, self-indulged dumbass.

I can't wait for his next book though.

I certainly understand where you're coming from...it's frigging frustrating. I'm going to be 40 by the time the damn series is fucking finished...it's kind of ridiculous.

[terpkristin]

Agreed that it's frustrating. Though, as others here have opined, I think he probably ran into a wall and got so frustrated, he needed to step away from it for awhile, which I can respect. His latest "Not a Blog" entries have been optimistic, it seems he's working his way through the Mereneese Knot. I really hope future books come more quickly, that he's solved most of the problems in book 5....

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

Agreed that it's frustrating. Though, as others here have opined, I think he probably ran into a wall and got so frustrated, he needed to step away from it for awhile, which I can respect. His latest "Not a Blog" entries have been optimistic, it seems he's working his way through the Mereneese Knot. I really hope future books come more quickly, that he's solved most of the problems in book 5....

/tk

fool me once shame on you...fool me twice...shame on me.

[terpkristin]

fool me once shame on you...fool me twice...shame on me.

Yeah yeah.
But I really don't feel like that can be applied to writing. A guy (or a girl) cheating on you, sure. Avatar? Hell yeah. Public policy? Probably. Writing? Harder to say...

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah yeah.
But I really don't feel like that can be applied to writing. A guy (or a girl) cheating on you, sure. Avatar? Hell yeah. Public policy? Probably. Writing? Harder to say...

/tk

just seems that it's been an EXTREMELY long time. I mean we're not talking "delayed for six months so it's taken 1.5 years" or anything. not that there's a "reasonable" delay or whatever...but it just seems...a very very long time.

[bronconick]

I think a lot of it has to go back to when he decided to scrap the 5 year interlude originally planned after Storm. He probably has all sorts of things that have to be adjusted because of that. After he gets frustrated, he throws his hands up and goes and does something else for a while. Rinse, wash, and repeat since 2005.

Jordan seemed to have something similar happen, but he just churned out subpar books and ground through it, so I guess I should thank Martin for saving me the $40-$60 I would have spent on crappy hardcover books like I did with books 8 and 10 of the Wheel of Time.

The blog he keeps makes it worse, because something like 1 out of 10-15 posts has anything to do with his writing. I can't imagine there's a large sect of people checking his site to find out his views on NFL football or how he took 3 months off of any kind of writing to travel. Especially when apparently he can only write at home, on a special keyboard, at 68.2 degrees when the sun isn't shining in the window.

At this point I have my doubts that he's going to be able to put out a 5th book that satisfies (4 was a serious step down from the first 3, and didn't have 5 years of fan frustration behind it), and I have no expectation that the series will ever be finished because I don't think he has another 15-20 years to do so, and I don't think he has copious notes and a wife/editor like Jordan left to have a ghostwriter finish. Frankly, I'm glad that all the books were gifts.

[terpkristin]

The blog he keeps makes it worse, because something like 1 out of 10-15 posts has anything to do with his writing. I can't imagine there's a large sect of people checking his site to find out his views on NFL football or how he took 3 months off of any kind of writing to travel. Especially when apparently he can only write at home, on a special keyboard, at 68.2 degrees when the sun isn't shining in the window.

His blog drives me nuts! Especially when it's football season and the Jets and/or Giants lose and all of a sudden his mood is "life is meaningless and full of pain" or he laments that he'll never be the same.

It's a freaking game.

/tk

[Galaril]

First let me say I loved his first four books but the last couple of years have been really frustrating. I am not saying his readers have a right to the series being completed but when I hire A PM on a project I expect the person to finish the project through to completion not just hand me a Gannt chart.

I normally don't stoop to cursing since I think it degrades a persons intellectually quota or the appearance of of it. But that being said I got one thing to Martin and anyone who rips us for expecting the guy to finish his series FUCK YOU!

[Vince, Pt. II]

While I would love to see the books come out faster, I appreciate the fact that he's not willing to just sling a bunch of sub-par crap out there because his fans want a new book. While the delays are fairly ridiculous, I really do think it makes the books better.

[Honolulu_Blue]

While I would love to see the books come out faster, I appreciate the fact that he's not willing to just sling a bunch of sub-par crap out there because his fans want a new book. While the delays are fairly ridiculous, I really do think it makes the books better.

Yeah, this is pretty much where I am at as well.

As for his blog being about things other than these books, well... It's his blog. If he wants to write about football, other projects, toy knights, conventions, or whatever, all the power to him. Isn't that what blogs are all about anyway? Besides, everyone has to have a life outside of "work".

[DaddyTorgo]

While I would love to see the books come out faster, I appreciate the fact that he's not willing to just sling a bunch of sub-par crap out there because his fans want a new book. While the delays are fairly ridiculous, I really do think it makes the books better.

On the one hand I agree with you. On the other hand, it makes me think it's increasingly unlikely that we ever see a conclusion to the series.

[ISiddiqui]

While I would love to see the books come out faster, I appreciate the fact that he's not willing to just sling a bunch of sub-par crap out there because his fans want a new book. While the delays are fairly ridiculous, I really do think it makes the books better.

Oh, I don't know. "A Feast for Crows" was the worst book of the series so far (that doesn't mean it was bad, mind). I think when an author has a single minded determination to get out a story, as Martin seemed to when he did "A Game of Thrones", "A Clash of Kings", and "A Storm of Swords", it was brilliant writing. When an author gets distracted and puts down a work and then comes back, it suffers more.

Obviously Martin isn't that into the series as it was in the late 90s. And the series will suffer for it.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I would agree that "A Feast for Crows" was the worst so far, but it was still one of the best books (of this genre) I've ever read. I feel like it gets short shrift simply because of the brilliance of the first three.

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree. Maybe part of it is that I was distracted while reading AFFC or something, but I found it very...confusing & without narrative direction, moreso than any of the other 3. Maybe it was me, but maybe it was also GRRM. Maybe it was also that AFFC was essentially 50% of what the total book would have been, so there wasn't a lot of plot advancement in that 50%.

I should probably reread it...but I tell you...all that stuff with the Maestor's school and stuff...I skimmed the shit out of that. All the Arya stuff...I skimmed through real quick. It just didn't have much to grab me and hold my attention (at least on that initial first read - like i said it's prolly time for a reread).

[Samdari]

All the Arya stuff...

Funny, that and the Sam stuff was all I found interesting. I did not much care about what was happening with the Dornish storyline, nor the iron islands. I actually really dreaded getting to the iron islands chapters. It was far more a chore to read those than leisure.

[Honolulu_Blue]

"Feast" is the weakest of the four, but the bar is high. I've read it four times now (well, read through it once, listened to it three times). There's a lot of great stuff in there. There are some issues as it does seem to meander quite a bit. The Brienne chapters, especially, suffer from this. You know where Sansa is, so you know she's not going to find her. We've already seen the "horrors of war" on the smallfolk through Arya's chapters in "Clash" and "Storm". So, it's unclear how it all fits in and whether a lot of it was necessary.

As I have mentioned before, there was a very tight story arch that ran through the first three books: The war of the five kings. Feast is essentially a transitional book in which Martin has to set up all the pieces for the next big arch, which, I assume, will be the whole R'hollor/Others/Dany/Jon aspect of it. I think that is why so much of it felt a bit off.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Funny, that and the Sam stuff was all I found interesting. I did not much care about what was happening with the Dornish storyline, nor the iron islands. I actually really dreaded getting to the iron islands chapters. It was far more a chore to read those than leisure.

I really liked the Dornish chapters, but I agree, the Iron Men are pretty insufferable. I don't like any of them. They are all annoying in their own special way.

[DaddyTorgo]

I really liked the Dornish chapters, but I agree, the Iron Men are pretty insufferable. I don't like any of them. They are all annoying in their own special way.

Oh yeah, I skimmed the Iron Islands stuff too.

The Dornish stuff I liked IIRC. Like I said, I need to reread it all though.

[Samdari]

I really liked the Dornish chapters, but I agree, the Iron Men are pretty insufferable. I don't like any of them. They are all annoying in their own special way.


The "chore" comment was made mostly about the iron islands stuff. The Dorne stuff was more "I don't care about these people, I care about Jon, and Tyrion, and Dany" While the Dorne stuff wasn't a horrible read, I was not eagerly anticipating the book to find out what happened to them.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The "chore" comment was made mostly about the iron islands stuff. The Dorne stuff was more "I don't care about these people, I care about Jon, and Tyrion, and Dany" While the Dorne stuff wasn't a horrible read, I was not eagerly anticipating the book to find out what happened to them.

I could certainly see that. I like the Dornish people and found the characters interesting. I would say the Dornish chapters were my favorites behind the Jamie and Cersei chapters. I liked Jamie's stuff because, well, he's Jamie and Cersei's chapters were fun because I loved all the political stuff going on in Kings Landing. That said, I always felt a little confused and muddled after reading her chapters because Martin does such a great job of getting into the heads of the various perspective characters that it was hard spending so much time in the head of a crazy person.

[ISiddiqui]

I must have been one of the few that really enjoyed the Iron Islands arc. Alas.

[DaddyTorgo]

I must have been one of the few that really enjoyed the Iron Islands arc. Alas.

different strokes for different folks. some of it was alright i thought, but at certain points it just seemed like it was...in the way of stuff i wanted to read more

[3ric]

"And try not to laugh TOO hard at the part where I say I hope to finish DANCE by the end of the year. I really meant it, honest."

Not A Blog - A Blast from the Past (http://grrm.livejournal.com/138098.html)

[Honolulu_Blue]

It's not much, but it's something:

HBO (http://www.hbo.com/#/game-of-thrones)

[DaddyTorgo]

Cool...a website!!

[terpkristin]

The 22-second teaser that was shown tonight before True Blood is on there. :)

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

The 22-second teaser that was shown tonight before True Blood is on there. :)

/tk

Need to watch True Blood on DVR after the Celts game!!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Everyime I think I can't get more excited about the TV series, they release some casting news that gets me more excited. It's not just the actors they are gettign to fill the specific rolls, but the rolls that are being cast.

Over the last few days, there have been several cool announcements:

1. The actor who played Councilman Thomas "Tommy" Carcetti from "The Wire" has been hired to play Petry Baelish aka Littlefinger. An inspired choice.

2. They have 7' tall, massive guy named Conan Stevens playing Gregor Clegane. He looks awesome.

3. They have hired actors to fill the roles of Barristan the Bold, Syrio Florel, Rast and Jory Cassel. I love the fact that characters liek Syrio, Rast (one of the bullies on the Wall) and Jory Cassel aren't being cut from the movie. Syrio is a very cool character who could have been cut. It's great that he's in there. His final scene is one of my favorites in all 4 books.

[Galaril]

I just can't get excited about s eries based on a set of books thst will never be completed. So, I see this series be great for 2-3 seasons like Rome was and then cut once HBO sees martin is not going to ever finish the series himself.

[Chief Rum]

I just can't get excited about s eries based on a set of books thst will never be completed. So, I see this series be great for 2-3 seasons like Rome was and then cut once HBO sees martin is not going to ever finish the series himself.

Am I the only one that has moved on to "over it", with respect to Martin's hit or msis writing schedule?

I mean, I am with you, Galaril, on your general take here, but I am beyond the point where I feel anything needs to be said. Kinda like, "okay we get it, we're all annoyed at the guy, let's accept and move on" sorta mood.

I figure writing more about it is just wasted space really.

Like HB, I am more inclined to be really excited about the coming series and seeing how it's done on screen. And I still hold to a small hope that the beginning of the series (and the money future seasons would likely bring to Martin) will encourage him to get more serious and focused on finishing it.

I mean, heck, Martin had to have at least made some promises to HBO about when his series would finish, probably backed by contracts, because HBO wouldn't have bought in to a series without an end, I wouldn't think.

Good stuff, HB. I agree the characters being cast make for some encouraging implications.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Am I the only one that has moved on to "over it", with respect to Martin's hit or msis writing schedule?

Nope. I right there with you, Chief. I've long since moved on to "over it." I want him to finish the series as much as anyone. I dying for it. I've read each of these books at least 4 times. I've bought all the RPG books and the art book. I love this stuff.

It's unfathomable to me that it's been 5 years since the last book and there are certain characters, Dany, Tyrion, and Bran, for example, that have essentially been in complete stasis since I began my professional career as an attorney (almost 10 years now). It's crazy to think about.

Still, I've lost any anger or frustration over it. I've long let it ago and decided just to enjoy what I have.

How's that old prayer/saying go? "God, Give us the grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed, Courage to change the things which should be changed, And the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other." There's nothing I can do to get Martin to write faster or finish it before he dies, so I've accepted that and moved on.

Oh yeah, then there's this: Zombieland Rule 32: "Enjoy the little things."

[ISiddiqui]

The amusing part is that this book was, what, half written according to Martin roughly 5 years ago? But yeah, I'm well past "over it". If Martin ever does write a new part of the series, I'm going to have to get some cliff notes, because, frankly I've forgotten a lot of the details of the series (and I loved all the detail in the world Martin created).

[Peregrine]

The real irony is that Martin's heavy involvement with the HBO series, knee-deep in casting details, etc, is part of the reason the next book isn't out yet.

[Galaril]

Good points I have just about moved on past his sereis so unfortunately for me I might not veen read the next book knowing it will 2028-ish before he finishs the series.

[JAG]

The amusing part is that this book was, what, half written according to Martin roughly 5 years ago?

Yes, that was the good news about the fourth book missing a number of main character POV's. The fifth book is half-written! He forgot to tell us the bad news though...

But yeah, over it but still eager for the book whatever decade it comes out. When I see this thread, I remember I haven't checked the blog in a while.

[sabotai]

With how slow I read books, 2028 sounds about right for when I'll catch up. I just start book 2 (listening to the audiobook).

[bronconick]

Not A Blog - The Long Wait Is Over!!! (http://grrm.livejournal.com/162442.html)

Even he's making light of it now.

Comment response that somehow hasn't been deleted yet


I knew this couldn't be about DwD because the sun hadn't expanded past the orbit of Venus, burning off our atmosphere and destroying all life as we know it, which I am pretty sure is the projected publication date.

If one were to have a RSS feed updating him on Martin's blog, all they would have received is "The Long Wait is Over!".....and upon reaching his blog, possibly strangled themselves with an electrical cord.

[DaddyTorgo]

Not A Blog - The Long Wait Is Over!!! (http://grrm.livejournal.com/162442.html)

Even he's making light of it now.

Comment response that somehow hasn't been deleted yet



If one were to have a RSS feed updating him on Martin's blog, all they would have received is "The Long Wait is Over!".....and upon reaching his blog, possibly strangled themselves with an electrical cord.

lol - that's kind of douchey of him though. to think that anyone really cares about Wild Cards.

[Galaril]

lol - that's kind of douchey of him though. to think that anyone really cares about Wild Cards.

Yup.

[Honolulu_Blue]

More Game of Thrones casting news continues to trickle out. They continue to cast all sorts of roles, including Osha, Shae, the Old Bear (The Lord Commander of The Night's Watch) and others.

Of note:

The role of Grand Maester Pycelle had to be re-cast because Roy Dotrice had health issues that prevented him from being able to shoot the role.

The Old Bear is going to be played by that dude who played Hamish's hard, kick-ass father from "Braveheart" (everyone likes that guy).

Tywin Lannister is going to be played by none over than... Sardo Numspa!! Yes! The villain for the Golden Child! He's going to be destroying Starks *snap* just like that.

[ISiddiqui]

lol - that's kind of douchey of him though. to think that anyone really cares about Wild Cards.

No kinda about it!

[Honolulu_Blue]

There's a new teaser trailer for the HBO series up and one of those video diary things.

Can be found here:

http://winter-is-coming.net/

[DaddyTorgo]

nice

woot!!!


The site currently has posts highlighting the two new videos as well as the new promo pic. It also has a wonderful letter (http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/a-note-from-the-series-creators.html) from David Benioff and D. B. Weiss to the fans of the show. I particularly liked this part.
The enthusiasm for the show was palpable before a single actor was cast or a frame shot. Trust us: the Powers That Be noticed. And so did we. When we spend two hours discussing the details of the House Bolton sigil or the hilt of a certain Valyrian steel dagger or the content of a few pages from ‘The Lineages and Histories of the Great Houses of the Seven Kingdoms’ that won’t be onscreen for more than a second – sometimes we wonder if anyone will notice. But someone will. You guys will. And it makes all the difference knowing there are people out there who care as much about this story as we do. We all want to get it right.

[the_meanstrosity]

There's a new teaser trailer for the HBO series up and one of those video diary things.

Can be found here:

http://winter-is-coming.net/

Thanks HB. Looks great and can't wait till this series starts.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm probably going to cry when it starts.

tears of happiness.

[Galaril]

Still can't get excited until I see fat ass Martin progressing with the books. I have wasted enough free time on shows like Jericho,Rome, Deadwood, Flashforward and Firefly with no plot line ties ups..........But that teaser does look good.

[DaddyTorgo]

Still can't get excited until I see fat ass Martin progressing with the books. I have wasted enough free time on shows like Jericho,Rome, Deadwood, Flashforward and Firefly with no plot line ties ups..........But that teaser does look good.

That's true.

Rome was irritating in that sense. Very irritating.

Looking forward to the new show about the Borgia family too...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Still can't get excited until I see fat ass Martin progressing with the books. I have wasted enough free time on shows like Jericho,Rome, Deadwood, Flashforward and Firefly with no plot line ties ups..........But that teaser does look good.

While, I can't speak for Jericho or Flashforward, since I never watched them, I never once considered any time I spent watching "Rome", "Deadwood" or "Firefly" to be wasted. Was I disappointed that they were cancelled before their time and didn't get a chance to tell their full stories? Abso-fucking-lutely. The cancellation of "Firefly" killed a little of me inside, permanently.

But, all those shows were so great, even in their incomplete form, that I never once felt like I was "wasting" time while watching them. Hell, I've seen every episode of "Firefly" at least 3 times and most more than that. Never feel like I'm wasting time while I do it. I love them too much.

Same goes for Martin's books. I've read all 4 at least 4 times each. I love it. They fill me with great happiness. It will suck beyond belief and kill a part of me inside if he never finishes, but I still will cherish the time I spent in that world and with those characters. That is not time I consider "wasted".

Hopefully, the quality of the HBO series will make me feel the same.

[Galaril]

While, I can't speak for Jericho or Flashforward, since I never watched them, I never once considered any time I spent watching "Rome", "Deadwood" or "Firefly" to be wasted. Was I disappointed that they were cancelled before their time and didn't get a chance to tell their full stories? Abso-fucking-lutely. The cancellation of "Firefly" killed a little of me inside, permanently.

But, all those shows were so great, even in their incomplete form, that I never once felt like I was "wasting" time while watching them. Hell, I've seen every episode of "Firefly" at least 3 times and most more than that. Never feel like I'm wasting time while I do it. I love them too much.

Same goes for Martin's books. I've read all 4 at least 4 times each. I love it. They fill me with great happiness. It will suck beyond belief and kill a part of me inside if he never finishes, but I still will cherish the time I spent in that world and with those characters. That is not time I consider "wasted".

Hopefully, the quality of the HBO series will make me feel the same.

Good post and I never thought of it that way.

[DaddyTorgo]

While, I can't speak for Jericho or Flashforward, since I never watched them, I never once considered any time I spent watching "Rome", "Deadwood" or "Firefly" to be wasted. Was I disappointed that they were cancelled before their time and didn't get a chance to tell their full stories? Abso-fucking-lutely. The cancellation of "Firefly" killed a little of me inside, permanently.

But, all those shows were so great, even in their incomplete form, that I never once felt like I was "wasting" time while watching them. Hell, I've seen every episode of "Firefly" at least 3 times and most more than that. Never feel like I'm wasting time while I do it. I love them too much.

Same goes for Martin's books. I've read all 4 at least 4 times each. I love it. They fill me with great happiness. It will suck beyond belief and kill a part of me inside if he never finishes, but I still will cherish the time I spent in that world and with those characters. That is not time I consider "wasted".

Hopefully, the quality of the HBO series will make me feel the same.

Good point. Shouldn't have said wasted time...should more just be like "dissapointment they were never fully realized."

I'm still bummed in a ways that I wasn't able to contribute more to the Westeros mod for MTWII. Joined the team and then was largely an epic slacker, but I just don't have the time to do more than like...offer ideas and such.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Good point. Shouldn't have said wasted time...should more just be like "dissapointment they were never fully realized."

Definitely disappointing. I wouldn't blame anyone not wanting to pick up this series or continue with it until it's finished. Especially folks who got burned in the past, like the "Wheel of Time" people.

[DaddyTorgo]

And it's not even dissapointed because I feel cheated...it's like...because I feel like the characters got cheated, ya know?

[terpkristin]

Wow. While I'm not looking forward to paying for HBO, I am soo looking froward to this series.

/tk

[sabotai]

I'm starting to look forward to the HBO series, too.

I finished the 2nd book and have started the 3rd. I liked the second book more than the first.

Here's my list of viewpoint characters from favorite to least favorite.

Arya - I love her storyline and anytime I'm about to put the book away or stop the audiobook, if I read on the next page or hear in the audiobook "Arya" , I have to go one more chapter. Looking to A Feast For Crows, when I saw the list of chapters on a website (yeah, a lot of the story has been spoiled for me, but I don't really mind spoilers that much), I was disappointed that she only gets 2 chapters in it.

Jon - I love reading about The Wall and The Night's Watch. It was ok in the first one, but when they venture beyond the wall in the second book, it was just awesome.

Tyrion - Again, I thought he was just ok in the first book, but the political mind games between him, Littlefinger, Varys and Cercei in the second book were very fun to read.

Sansa - I see she gets a lot of grief on some website and forums. Not a lot of fans for her, but I've enjoyed the evolution of her character from an idealistic romantic to someone who gets a rude awakening to the real world and how it works.

Theon - Man, this kid just wants his father's approval but definitely is more Stark than Greyjoy. The chapter where Asha destroys him (his 2nd chapter in ACOK if I recall correctly) was one of the funniest things I've read in a long time.

Eddard - Decent storyline, but the character was bit..."dry"? Not sure that's the right word.

Daenerys - Liked some chapters, not others. She sure is taking her time become relevant to the rest of the story. I really liked how her last few chapters in AGOT were written, though. Up and down character as far as my interest goes.

Bran - Dunno, I just find his chapters boring. Even the wolf ones.

Davos - Low on the list mainly because he's only had 3 chapters so far. Not much done with him yet.

Catelyn - Yeah, I know what's going to happen in this book with her, and I can't wait. I hate this character and her mostly boring chapters. Seems like the only point of her being around is to tell us what Robb and Robert's 2 brothers are up to in the second novel. SOOO looking forward to what's coming.


I think that's all of them. This series is definitely getting better as it goes.

[Glengoyne]

I've just finished listening to the Fourth book via Audible.com. It is true that John Lee doesn't hold a candle to Roy Dotrice as narrator, but he does a serviceable job. There was a lot I picked up on the re-read that I missed the first time or legitimately forgot.

Here are just a few


-Brienne was dangling at the end of a rope when we last see her. I'd forgotten that. I'm now remembering that for quite a while I was wondering just what was the one word she screamed as they hoisted her up.
-Tom o' seven strings is sitting in Riverrun with Jaimie.
-Arya has a cat dream as opposed to a wolf dream as her last warging experience in AFFC.
-Victarion is off to find Dany.
-Archmaester Marwyn is off to find Dany.
-I completely missed this the first time through, but the book ends with Sam speaking to Pate. Interesting because in the prologue we saw Pate killed by a faceless man. So now Sam is walking through the Citadel with a faceless man with a key that will open any door in the Citadel.
-I also tracked down that this just isn't any Faceless man, but Jacquen H'gar(based on his description by Arya)

--I'd also forgotten jesting to myself that Death really hadn't changed Catelyn's personality much after all.



Damn I can't wait for a Dance with Dragons ....again waiting.

I guess the HBO series will sate the need for a while. I just saw who they've cast for Tywin Lannister, and loved it. It's almost like those doing the casting have read the books.

Reading Martin's Blog and his merenese knot comments, and now I'm even a bit more annoyed with him and his delays.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I was quite skeptical at first, but damn if this doesn't look like it's just going to be amazing.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here's a link to a page that has some really good "stills" from the various trailers.

Game of Thrones: News - NEW UPDATE: Dissecting the New Teaser (more images!) (http://www.westeros.org/GoT/News/Entry/4474/)

[DaddyTorgo]

This series is going to be so awesome. I can't wait.

[DaddyTorgo]

Just looked at all those stills...I'm dissapointed if the Kingsguard won't be wearing white armor/cloaks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Somehow this news from July wasn't ever posted here re: the upcoming game by cyanide studios

Paris, 16th July 2010

We announced in 2009 that Cyanide had signed an agreement with George R. R. Martin to develop both an RTS and RPG based on his best-selling "A Song of Ice and Fire" series. Today we can confirm that the RTS will be published by Focus Home Interactive.

Their press release is below.
FOCUS HOME INTERACTIVE AND CYANIDE ANNOUNCE "A GAME OF THRONES: GENESIS"

We are very pleased to announce that Focus Home Interactive will publish "A Game of Thrones: Genesis", Cyanide’s new strategy game, adapted from George R.R. Martin's famous series of best-sellers novels "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Today, we reveal the first 2 artworks from this game in which you will have to match your political prowess with your strategic and military skills!

"A Game of Thrones: Genesis" plunges you into the heart of the battles and intrigues between the Families that shaped the Kingdom of Westeros.

However, victory does not necessarily result from brute force. The innovative game mechanics provide players with numerous paths to success: will you opt for a military, economic or diplomatic approach? Trickery, treachery and deceit are widespread and you will constantly have to watch your back if you want to avoid a bitter defeat!

Peacefully or forcefully annex surrounding territories, besiege enemy castles, send spies to infiltrate behind enemy lines, assassinate trouble-making officers or capture them to ask for a ransom... When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground!


For more information (+ logo and some images) visit the Focus website (http://www.focus-home.com/index.php?rub=news&id=100).</pre>

George R. R. Martin has also posted the news on his blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/166992.html) and it is drawing plenty of feedback from fans.</pre>

[DaddyTorgo]

FWIW - the artwork looks beautiful

[Autumn]

Just looked at all those stills...I'm dissapointed if the Kingsguard won't be wearing white armor/cloaks.

Yeah that seemed very odd to me. Why not run with one of the few very clear stylistic guides for them?

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah that seemed very odd to me. Why not run with one of the few very clear stylistic guides for them?

I dunno. It's kind of pissing me off - because I think that would be beautiful. and honestly, knowing how much care they are professing to take with detail i can't see them leaving that one out.

Then again - that's not their battle armor in those stills, so maybe their suits of armor are still white, and they have white cloaks then? That could be the kettleblacks or something in their lannister-style dress?

[lordscarlet]

For more information (+ logo and some images) visit the Focus website (http://www.focus-home.com/index.php?rub=news&id=100).

A RAR file? Seriously? Is this 1996?

[DaddyTorgo]

A RAR file? Seriously? Is this 1996?

lmao

[Honolulu_Blue]

Entertainment Weekly just posted 10 "first images" from the series.

Here's the link:

http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931,00.html (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931,00.html)

Here's the photos:

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-COURTYARD_450.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-riders_450.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-Robert-Baratheon_450.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-Cersei_360.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-Jaime-Lannister_450.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-Eddard_450.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-arrow_360.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-Daenerys-Targaryen_360.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-Tyrion_360.jpg

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/101117/Game-of-Thrones-cast_360.jpg

[DaddyTorgo]

Sexy fucking goodness. Can't fucking wait.

[MrBug708]

The last shot is in the Vale?

I'm re-reading the books again, already saw a couple of details that I forgot/missed the first time

[DaddyTorgo]

The last shot is in the Vale?

I'm re-reading the books again, already saw a couple of details that I forgot/missed the first time

Yep. Must be the Vale judging by the Aaryn soldiers in the background.

Very LOTR-look to it (not that that's bad at all).

I reiterate that I hope they get the Kingsguard in white.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The last shot is in the Vale?

I'm re-reading the books again, already saw a couple of details that I forgot/missed the first time

Yeah, the last two shots are the Vale.

[AFShadow]

When is this starting on HBO?

[Honolulu_Blue]

When is this starting on HBO?

There's been no official start date set yet, but most think it will be sometime in April 2011.

[DaddyTorgo]

Captions for the photos:


1 Jon, Sam, and Pyp (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_1,00.html) in their training gear in the courtyard of Castle Black
2 A group of armoured horsemen (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_2,00.html) in the Vale
3 King Robert (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_3,00.html) in Winterfell, Stark guards kneeling
4 Cersei (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_4,00.html) at the dinner table
5 Jaime (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_5,00.html) in Kingsguard armour, holding his steed
6 Lord Eddard Stark (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_6,00.html) in the familiar council chamber with Pycelle
7 Jon (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_7,00.html) supervising Bran’s archery practice
8 Dany (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_8,00.html) in a Dothraki outfit standing on the field of willows set
9 Tyrion (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_9,00.html) thrown on the floor, Mord snarling in the background
10 Tyrion, Ser Vardis Egen, and Catelyn (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_10,00.html) in the high hall of the Eyrie

[DaddyTorgo]

So judging by that, we're not getting white kingsguard armor. Shucks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Allegedly...according to posts I just saw on FB...Martin is now only 5 chapters away from finishing ADWD.

[GrantDawg]

Allegedly...according to posts I just saw on FB...Martin is now only 5 chapters away from finishing ADWD.


Cool! Only three more years to go! :)

[Vince, Pt. II]

I find it amazing that with all the detail they are getting into and the emphasis on making the world come to life that they are not making the Kingsguard armor white.

[DaddyTorgo]

I find it amazing that with all the detail they are getting into and the emphasis on making the world come to life that they are not making the Kingsguard armor white.

Me too. Disappointing and irritating. Possibly a bad omen. Can't understand why they'd do that. Keep hoping that maybe I'm wrong and we'll see the white armor (maybe it's just more ceremonial so we don't see it once the guys go into battle or whatever).

[MrBug708]

I wonder who will play Hot Pie in the second season of A Game of Thrones?

[3ric]

Captions for the photos:


10 Tyrion, Ser Vardis Egen, and Catelyn (http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20385926_20442931_10,00.html) in the high hall of the Eyrie

Was Catelyn in the Eyrie with Tyrion? Lysa Arryn was Catelyn's sister, right? I need to re-read the first book, these photos remind me how much I've forgotten.

[bronconick]

Allegedly...according to posts I just saw on FB...Martin is now only 5 chapters away from finishing ADWD.


Well, he's got to catch up on all the NFL he tivoed while out of the country, then watch the rest of the season. He might find some time in March, then.

[GrantDawg]

Was Catelyn in the Eyrie with Tyrion? Lysa Arryn was Catelyn's sister, right? I need to re-read the first book, these photos remind me how much I've forgotten.


She was the reason he was there.

[MrBug708]

Was Catelyn in the Eyrie with Tyrion? Lysa Arryn was Catelyn's sister, right? I need to re-read the first book, these photos remind me how much I've forgotten.

She dragged him there for safety and support and instead Lysa tried to execute him

[TargetPractice6]

I wonder who will play Hot Pie in the second season of A Game of Thrones?Looks like he's going to be in the first season. http://grrm.livejournal.com/179706.html

[3ric]

She dragged him there for safety and support and instead Lysa tried to execute him

Oh yeah - now I remember. Thanks for the reminder!

[DaddyTorgo]

FYI - apparently there's a more extended "behind the scenes" thing before the season finale of boardwalk empire next sunday (12/5) - i just saw a teaser for it on HBO...

fuck me i'm so excited!!

[Matthean]

New Trailer<object height="385" width="640">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/43LW7a_NKMk?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="640"></object>

[Matthean]

Ten minute preview.

<object height="288" width="512">



<embed src="http://www.hbo.com/bin/hboPlayerV2u.swf?vid=1149091" flashvars="domain=http://www.hbo.com&videoTitle=Inside Game of Thrones&copyShareURL=http://www.hbo.com/video/video.html/?autoplay=true%26vid=1149091%26filter=game-of-thrones%26view=null" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="288" width="512"></object>
Inside Game of Thrones (http://www.hbo.com/video/video.html?view=grid&vid=1149091&autoplay=true)

[DaddyTorgo]

Looking forward to the 10 min preview...away from home - thanks for posting the link matt!!

[DaddyTorgo]

*grumbles* dvr didn't catch it. Grrr.

Going to HBO site to watch

[Matthean]

When previously mentioned in this thread about his health issues, what ones are we talking about? I keep reading about them, but I don't recall what specifically it was.

[Honolulu_Blue]

When previously mentioned in this thread about his health issues, what ones are we talking about? I keep reading about them, but I don't recall what specifically it was.

I am not aware of any specific health issues other than being old and over weight.

[cougarfreak]

When is this starting on HBO?

Nevermind........watched the preview, April.

[DaddyTorgo]

When is this starting on HBO?

Spring. April probably?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Spring. April probably?

Yes. At the end of one of the trailers it said "April." No specific date.

[TargetPractice6]

Loved the behind the scenes preview. Minor quibbles aside (King's Guard armor), it looks like they are really putting a lot of effort into the details of the show. A few of the scenes were like taking images from the book straight out of my head.

[cschex]

Loved the behind the scenes preview. Minor quibbles aside (King's Guard armor), it looks like they are really putting a lot of effort into the details of the show. A few of the scenes were like taking images from the book straight out of my head.

Yeah, I'm ok with the fact that some things are going to be different (though my wife cannot get over the fact that Jaime's hair isn't blond), but it's been impressive how much stuff they've taken straight from the book. The dragon skulls are going to look AWESOME.

[Grammaticus]

In casting, they screwed up the image of both Jaime and John Snow. I'm sure both will turn out okay as the series unfolds and everyone gets used to them. Jaime just does not look right. As mentioned his hair is too dark. Then they made Snow look too much like a pretty boy. They probably could have flipped the actors and their hair color and it would have been closer.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I'm much more comfortable with Jaime Lannister after watching the preview. I'm not as bummed about his hair color, but I'm also curious as to why they didn't just bleach it.

I'm with you on Jon Snow though - not at all what I pictured. I'll have to see more of him actually acting, but I'm not a fan of his look.

That being said, these are minor quibbles, and that trailer was simply amazing.

[sabotai]

As far as casting goes, when I read the first book, I imagined the guy who played Tommy Carcetti in The Wire as Littlefinger.....and that's who they ended up casting.

[Glengoyne]

As far as casting goes, when I read the first book, I imagined the guy who played Tommy Carcetti in The Wire as Littlefinger.....and that's who they ended up casting.

Yes a near perfect match with my mental image as well. He matches almost as well as the guy they got to play Tywin Lannister.

[Bad-example]

The previews look great. I have extremely high expectations for this. Can't...friggin'...wait.

Don't really like the casting for The Hound or Jon Snow.

[MrBug708]

Watching Larry King sign off of his TV made me think that he'd play an excellent Walder Frey

[Crapshoot]

Crapshoot: Yes. I enjoy both genres, but probably more SF than Fantasy. I get annoyed with Fantasy when it gets too contrived, trite and annoying, but this series isn't like that. If there's such as thing as "Hard" Fantasy (as there is "Hard" SF - i.e. straightforward plot and reality, though futurist, SF), this is probably it.

In fact, now that I think about it, I'd say there are a good few similarities between this and the work of Alastair Reynolds (Revelation Space, Chasm City), who I've read recently.

4 years later, but I just devoured the series. Goddamnit Martin - give me a Dance With Dragons!

[Crapshoot]

Dola, I read all 4 books over a week and a half period - Christmas break is helpful, as is being sick. Wow. So many thoughts, but here is some of what I think:



- It seems clear to me that Pate is Jaqen D'har. For what purpose? Is magic rising again in Westeros?
- Arya Stark is not blind - its part of the Faceless Men training
- Sansa / Alayne is ... growing on me. Is she Littlefinger's protege?
- Cersei turned into a complete fool - in book 1 I thought her a master manipulator, and here I think her a complete cartoonish idiot surrounded by sycophants. Is Martin suggesting that none of these people are as smart as they think they are?
- Catelyn Stark should have stayed dead
- The Prince of Dorne fascinates me - here, I see an interesting character.

[MrBug708]

Your fourth point was interesting as I am re-reading the fourth book. Kevan Lannister flat out told Cersei that she wasn't her father and that he was going him. She never thought he would actually turn down her offer of the King's Hand. She slowly learned that all of her "power" stemmed from being the daughter of Tywin, the mother of the "King's Children" and somewhat of Jaime's sister. People did things solely for that, not of any respect of who she actually was.

[TargetPractice6]

I don't think I ever saw Cersei as a master manipulator in the first place. She pretty much had Sansa fall into her lap and confess all of her father's plans in AGoT. She was also botching things up enough that Tywin had to send Tyrion to reign her and Joffrey in. I don't think her character changed so much as we got to see more of her once she became a pointer of view character in AFfC.

[ISiddiqui]

She was just someone who thought she was a master manipulator, but nothing really stood out to me either.

[3ric]

Yes, Cersei is truly someone who believes she's smarter than she really is. It just became more obvious in her POV chapters.

[Crapshoot]

Right, I'm saying that in AGOT, that wasn't obvious at all but once we saw her POV, we saw that wasn't capable of playing with the big boys (aka, her Father). At this point, Prince Dorne / Littlefinger / Varys seem like the most "manipulative" characters.

[Honolulu_Blue]

HBO has announced that "Game of Thrones" will start on Sunday April 17.

They also released a bunch of new stills:

HBO - Making Game of Thrones (http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/)

[MrBug708]

Woot!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Here is a link to the latest trailer for the HBO show. (Sorry, I can't seem to embed video. I've tried many times.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ5p18wIQEI

It looks super sweet.

[cougarfreak]

Any idea how many episodes it will be?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Any idea how many episodes it will be?

I think 10.

[Edward64]

Been seeing the GOT trailers ... really excited about this one, ready for Apr to see if its any good (it has to be!). Will have to get the blu-ray verison for Christmas.

Been checking GRRM's website now and then, no real news on the next book that I've found ... anyone have an update?

[MrBug708]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hqQQXKgxz3U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Honolulu_Blue]

Been seeing the GOT trailers ... really excited about this one, ready for Apr to see if its any good (it has to be!). Will have to get the blu-ray verison for Christmas.

Been checking GRRM's website now and then, no real news on the next book that I've found ... anyone have an update?

No, there's nothing out there. The most you get is Martin commenting on finishing some chapter or re-writing some other chapter or something like that.

[kurtism]

A Dance with Dragons Comes Out on July 12th, 2011 - Topless Robot (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/03/a_dance_with_dragons_comes_out_on_july_12th_2011.php)

[Honolulu_Blue]

A Dance with Dragons Comes Out on July 12th, 2011 - Topless Robot (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/03/a_dance_with_dragons_comes_out_on_july_12th_2011.php)

SWEET!!

[MrBug708]

Awesome. I hope it's HBO pressure

[wade moore]

Argh, not on Amazon pre-order yet ;).

[Chief Rum]

Am I paranoid when I say that I'll believe it when the living tome is in my hands?

[JAG]

Am I paranoid when I say that I'll believe it when the living tome is in my hands?

I think it means you're a long-time follower of this series.

[Chief Rum]

I think it means you're a long-time follower of this series.

:D

By my thinking, we get one book per President. Storm of Swords (or whatever Book 3 was, I get the titles of 2 and 3 confused after this long) came out during the Clinton administration, A Feast For Crows came out during Bush, and now Dance of the Dragons during Obama.

Just one more reason to vote against Obama in the next election. ;)

[Schmidty]

I honestly don't believe it unless I see it from the source.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I honestly don't believe it unless I see it from the source.

Seek and ye shall find, Sparty.

Not A Blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/)

Update - A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin's Official Website (http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html)

[ISiddiqui]

I think it means you're a long-time follower of this series.

Indeed. Fool me once...

[Schmidty]

Seek and ye shall find, Sparty.

Not A Blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/)

Update - A Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin's Official Website (http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html)

I still refuse to believe it until I feel it in my hands.

And the new cover sucks.

[ISiddiqui]

From his "Update":

No. Sorry. Not done yet.

I'm close, though. Watch this space. When the book is done, you will read it here.

Meanwhile... there is news. Big news. The end is in sight, at long long last, and we're close enough so that my editors and publishers at Bantam Spectra have set an actual publication date.

He just wants me to be sad.

[sachmo71]

Awesome. I hope it's HBO pressure

No question. If he were to miss this date and not take advantage of the initial groundswell of popularity, he would miss out on some serious hardcover sales.

[Arles]

I'm looking forward to this on HBO. Have any of you guys checked out Camelot on 101/Encore? I DVRed it and watched it last night. It was pretty solid.

[bronconick]

Huh. Probably getting it from the library. Whenever it actually comes out, which like everyone else, I'll believe it when it's sitting on a shelf.

[Peregrine]

New trailer as well.

<object height="390" width="640">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UWIyCUHrESk&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="390" width="640"></object>

[Autumn]

Okay, I just realized something which probably was obvious to everyone, but for some reason never occurred to me until re-reading the first book. Thoughts for those who have read all the books in the spoiler.

So, a lot of the later books deal with Melisandre and her attempt to get Stannis to fulfill the prophecies of her Lord of Light. In particular she tells him that he must sacrifice the blood of a king in a fire in order to awake the stone dragons, or to forge the sword of fire, right? Something along those lines.

It occurred to me now that her prophecies are exactly correct, she just doesn't realize it already happened. Daenerys has already fulfilled them, burning the body of Khal Drogo in a fire with her dragon eggs, which were seemingly turned to stone, and awakening the dragons. Her dragons are the prophesied sword of fire, and those prophecies were already fulfilled, to the letter really. Just dawned on me.

[terpkristin]

Okay, I just realized something which probably was obvious to everyone, but for some reason never occurred to me until re-reading the first book. Thoughts for those who have read all the books in the spoiler.

I agree with your assessment, I've always thought that the "ice" part of this will be Jon Snow and the "fire" part be Danerys and her dragons. I also think Jon Snow is not really Ned Stark's bastard, but his sister's son...

/tk

[GrantDawg]

I agree with your assessment, I've always thought that the "ice" part of this will be Jon Snow and the "fire" part be Danerys and her dragons. I also think Jon Snow is not really Ned Stark's bastard, but his sister's son...

/tk


Yup. With the one who held her.

[kurtism]

Amazon.com: A Dance with Dragons (Song of Ice and Fire) (9780553801477): George R.R. Martin: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Ice-Fire/dp/0553801473/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1299458508&sr=8-8)

[TargetPractice6]

1008 pages!:eek: :D

[Honolulu_Blue]

Okay, I just realized something which probably was obvious to everyone, but for some reason never occurred to me until re-reading the first book. Thoughts for those who have read all the books in the spoiler.

So, a lot of the later books deal with Melisandre and her attempt to get Stannis to fulfill the prophecies of her Lord of Light. In particular she tells him that he must sacrifice the blood of a king in a fire in order to awake the stone dragons, or to forge the sword of fire, right? Something along those lines.

It occurred to me now that her prophecies are exactly correct, she just doesn't realize it already happened. Daenerys has already fulfilled them, burning the body of Khal Drogo in a fire with her dragon eggs, which were seemingly turned to stone, and awakening the dragons. Her dragons are the prophesied sword of fire, and those prophecies were already fulfilled, to the letter really. Just dawned on me.


If you re-read "A Feast For Crows", right before Maester Aemon dies, I believe he pretty much comes to the same conclusion and says that Melisandre was reading the flames wrong and that Dany is Azai Azhor, or whatever that guy's name is, reborn. I definitely agree.

And, yes, I think most folks believe that Jon is Lyanna and Rhaeger's son. The whole "Promise me, Ned..." was her asking Ned to promise to keep Jon safe. That's what I've always liked about Ned. Despite seeming totally inflexible about his honor, he was often willing to do whatever he could for those he loved.

[3ric]

Oh, cool - Amazon.co.uk just sent me an update concerning my "Dance of Dragons" pre-order I've had since October 2009. Good to know it's still in the system.

[Chief Rum]

Not sure if anyone else has this, but right around holiday shopping, I found a A Song of Ice and Fire series 2011 calendar, with artistic renderings of 12 of the different castles in the series. Pretty cool. January was Winterfell and February was Storm's End. This month is my favorite so far, The Aerie. It looks bad ass. I am actually avoiding looking ahead so I can enjoy each new one each month.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Not sure if anyone else has this, but right around holiday shopping, I found a A Song of Ice and Fire series 2011 calendar, with artistic renderings of 12 of the different castles in the series. Pretty cool. January was Winterfell and February was Storm's End. This month is my favorite so far, The Aerie. It looks bad ass. I am actually avoiding looking ahead so I can enjoy each new one each month.

It's a pretty sweet calendar. I have it. I still lament the travesty that was the 2010 calendar. It looked like it really had some excellent art work.

[MrBug708]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SOHcUlhO924" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[MrBug708]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/e4sTrjgDacI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cougarfreak]

The more I see these, the more I think I'll be ordering HBO just to watch it.

[DaddyTorgo]

News today.

DWD just might be done.

GRRM posted a dead King Kong (which apparently is his metaphor for the book) on his blog earlier.

[Chief Rum]

Awesome! Hoping that's for real.

[terpkristin]

Not A Blog - twas beauty... (http://grrm.livejournal.com/212603.html)

Yes, it IS done. Really. « Suvudu - Science Fiction and Fantasy Books, Movies, Comics, and Games (http://suvudu.com/2011/04/yes-it-is-done-really.html)

/tk

[cschex]

As much as I've enjoyed the TV show, nothing is going to compare to having DWD in my hands in mid-July. Awesome news!

[JAG]

Awesome! Hoping that's for real.

Again summing up my thoughts nicely. Looking forward to savoring Book 5.