OT: A Song of Ice and Fire Series (spoilers inside)

[ISiddiqui]

I think you underestimate people. I knew a ton of folks who said the Hell with Robert Jordan and meant it.

[terpkristin]

I'm all about giving authors time to finish their works the way that they want to, but I really have gotten frustrated with Martin. I have no problem with him working on other things, going to cons (ok, I have a little bit of an issue with him going to cons but not enough to stir up anything), and trying to make ADWD the best it can be. But he is a bit of a tease, telling us when ASOS was released that ADWD was more or less done, and now it's been...3.5 years?

What really gets me, though, is how he gets pissy about sports and then says he doesn't think he can write all week owing to how pissy he is about his stupid Jets and Giants. It's a fucking game.

/tk

[Poli]

It is not. It's much more important than life, TK. ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm all about giving authors time to finish their works the way that they want to, but I really have gotten frustrated with Martin. I have no problem with him working on other things, going to cons (ok, I have a little bit of an issue with him going to cons but not enough to stir up anything), and trying to make ADWD the best it can be. But he is a bit of a tease, telling us when ASOS was released that ADWD was more or less done, and now it's been...3.5 years?

What really gets me, though, is how he gets pissy about sports and then says he doesn't think he can write all week owing to how pissy he is about his stupid Jets and Giants. It's a fucking game.

/tk

seriously. the rest of us get up the day after and go to work.

[ISiddiqui]

I will say that though that I'm happy I'll probably get a Kindle 2.0 before Dance with Dragons comes out, so I'll only have to spend $9.99 on the book. Otherwise, I guess I could have waited until it came out on paperback.

[Shkspr]

I think you underestimate people. I knew a ton of folks who said the Hell with Robert Jordan and meant it.

Check their closets for books 7-11. ;) Yeah, people have been slagging his work publicly since he started padding in the second trilogy. But the backlist sales are still forces to be reckoned with, the per-book dropoff is actually lower than industry average, and A Memory of Light is still on track to be the biggest adult fantasy book release of 2009, even if Dance of Dragons ships. There'll be all sorts of folks who come back to the series after Sanderson's book hits because the story is finally done. Plus, quite frankly, GRRM has Internet cachet, but the shelf space Jordan's books take up lure new readers in better.

There's always some anticipated dropoff in book sales from title to title - but that's from apathy, not pissiness. People who are MAD their book isn't out yet? They'll be back. It's the ones who are apathetic about the situation that will move on. Like Anne Rice's readers.

[ISiddiqui]

Anger does kinda lead to apathy over time.

[terpkristin]

I will say that though that I'm happy I'll probably get a Kindle 2.0 before Dance with Dragons comes out, so I'll only have to spend $9.99 on the book. Otherwise, I guess I could have waited until it came out on paperback.

Are Martin's books available on the Kindle? I noticed that Jordan's aren't. I was going to look into Goodkind, too.

/tk

[ISiddiqui]

Yep. Martin's are.

[Chief Rum]

I don't think I would be half as annoyed at Martin if he didn't keep promising and failing to meet his own self-imposed deadlines. Take forever, if you want. But don't tell me something should be out by a certain time, get me excited waiting for it, and then not even come close to delivering.

[MrBug708]

i get fuckin ANXIOUS everytime someone bumps this thread. Not in a good way either.

Winter is Coming

[flounder]

I think Scalzi makes a good point, but there is an implied covenant between the author of a multi-book series and his fans. We buy 7 (or 9 or 32) different books because we think that all of that money is worth it to allow the author to escape the constraints of a single volume. However, we also trust that at some point the author will actually give us an ending.

If Martin published a single volume book that just stopped right in the middle and then justified it by saying "I lost interest", no one would be defending him. By that logic, aren't we justified in saying that after buying 4 books we deserve to have an ending to the series?

[ISiddiqui]

I don't think I would be half as annoyed at Martin if he didn't keep promising and failing to meet his own self-imposed deadlines. Take forever, if you want. But don't tell me something should be out by a certain time, get me excited waiting for it, and then not even come close to delivering.

Bingo. After all, no one defends cockteases.

[molson]

I don't think I would be half as annoyed at Martin if he didn't keep promising and failing to meet his own self-imposed deadlines. Take forever, if you want. But don't tell me something should be out by a certain time, get me excited waiting for it, and then not even come close to delivering.

Did he actually make "promises" and set release dates? Or did he just say, "I hope to have this finished this summer"? I sounded like people were freaking out about the latter, but I might have missed something.

[Chief Rum]

Did he actually make "promises" and set release dates? Or did he just say, "I hope to have this finished this summer"? I sounded like people were freaking out about the latter, but I might have missed something.

One doesn't need to say "promise" to be someone who is essentially saying he will do something by a certain time. Waiting for the word is merely pedantic semantics.

It's also not unreasonable to hold a man to what he says he's planning to do, and if he doesn't follow up on it, to criticize him for that. At first, such criticism is, and should be soft. After all, it's not like there's a contract between writer and fans. But with every broken covenant seems to come a new covenant, which is then broken, only to be followed by another.

If GRRM were a man who stood by the things he says, he would get this done, or he would have not said them in the first place. Since he does not, I have every right to disrespect how he has handled this.

[Shkspr]

I think Scalzi makes a good point, but there is an implied covenant between the author of a multi-book series and his fans. We buy 7 (or 9 or 32) different books because we think that all of that money is worth it to allow the author to escape the constraints of a single volume. However, we also trust that at some point the author will actually give us an ending.

If Martin published a single volume book that just stopped right in the middle and then justified it by saying "I lost interest", no one would be defending him. By that logic, aren't we justified in saying that after buying 4 books we deserve to have an ending to the series?

No you don't. You buy all those books because you like the words inside them. There are 7 or 9 or 32 of those books because you like the words inside them so much that you want more stories about them. And if the words inside are really good, then even when the stories end, you get pissy about it until you get MORE stories about them. (see Holmes, Sherlock.)

You certainly wouldn't accept the justification that after writing an ending for the series that an author like GRRM "deserves" to have everyone that read the first four pony up the cash for the final one, right? You'd make excuses like "I'll read it if it's good" even though you thought the preceding 3000 pages were brilliant, or "I'll see if I can afford it" or "I'll pick it up used" because you want to part with as little of your hard-earned cash as possible for his work, or "You took too long" as though two years between installments is hunky dory, but four years is burdensome.

There's no covenant; there's no obligation. The entire relationship is pay-as-you-go. Hell, the only one who puts their money on the line before the damn book ships at this point is me, so I don't know what you're so riled up about.

[ISiddiqui]

Yep, they aren't dumb to set release dates and wiz by them. Instead strongly insinuating a book will released on a date is bad enough.

To wit, I pulled my copy of "A Feast for Crows" from my bookshelf. On the last page of the story ("Meanwhile, Back On the Wall"):

Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Stannis, Melisandre, Davos Seaworth, and all the rest of the characters you love or love to hate will be along next year (I devoutly hope) in A Dance With Dragons, which will focus on events along the Wall and across the sea, just as the present book focused on King's Landing

That was in June 2005, after Martin said he had basically written an entire book about the other characters, but the combined would be too long and thus would have needed a "To Be Continued". He gave the impression that basically all that needed to be done was a small bit of editing and then the second book would be released a year from the present one to give some space between the two.

[flounder]

No you don't. You buy all those books because you like the words inside them. There are 7 or 9 or 32 of those books because you like the words inside them so much that you want more stories about them. And if the words inside are really good, then even when the stories end, you get pissy about it until you get MORE stories about them. (see Holmes, Sherlock.)

You certainly wouldn't accept the justification that after writing an ending for the series that an author like GRRM "deserves" to have everyone that read the first four pony up the cash for the final one, right? You'd make excuses like "I'll read it if it's good" even though you thought the preceding 3000 pages were brilliant, or "I'll see if I can afford it" or "I'll pick it up used" because you want to part with as little of your hard-earned cash as possible for his work, or "You took too long" as though two years between installments is hunky dory, but four years is burdensome.

There's no covenant; there's no obligation. The entire relationship is pay-as-you-go. Hell, the only one who puts their money on the line before the damn book ships at this point is me, so I don't know what you're so riled up about.

I guess it depends whether you see the series as one long story or as a series of self-contained books. I would certainly agree with you if each book stood on its own. No one gets pissed at Tolkien because he never finished the Silmarillion. I just see it as one long story. We've shelled out for the first part of the story. I think we deserve an ending.

Obviously Martin is free just to tell us that he's never finishing the series and that we can all pack sand. I just don't think that would be the classy thing to do.

[Samdari]

seriously. the rest of us get up the day after and go to work.

Yeah, but we don't get anything done, we're there just to get paid.

[DaddyTorgo]

*bump*

OH MY GOD. The Westeros mod for Medieval II: Total War is fucking awesome. It's only a beta version, but hot damn yes!!!!

It's definitely going to hold me over until Third Age: Total War (Tolkien mod) is done

[RendeR]

No one has ever said Martin was a class-act. He's got more detractors than supporters out there.

[Honolulu_Blue]

No one has ever said Martin was a class-act.

I think he's a class-act.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hahaha - found this on a facebook group for the series and thought it was amusing!

[WSUCougar]

He's running out of Starks!

[DaddyTorgo]

He's running out of Starks!

:lol:

Yes - well he can always invent some new bastards or distant relations to kill off

[WSUCougar]

The Red Wedding still ranks as the most pissed off I've ever been at a fiction book.

[DaddyTorgo]

The Red Wedding still ranks as the most pissed off I've ever been at a fiction book.

yeah...seriously. that was some ballsy writing. hell of a hard decision to make. i remember like...wanting to throw the book across the room and scream at that point. Like "okay...you just spent all these hundreds and hundreds of pages building up your main character, and now this?" Because in any "normal" fantasy series, Robb is your main character for the whole thing and it's all about his journey and all. GRRM just totally disregarded that though. And it was...great. In some sense you could probably argue that it was a huge paradigm shift. It was to fantasy-writing what the first 20 seconds of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" were to the music business. Or you could argue that...if you were a fan of making those grandiose statements.

i actually just started rereading the whole series - figured it was about time for another go-through, as particularly with the earlier books it's been a couple years. looking forward to re experiencing some of the things i sped through or half-forgot last time.

[Fidatelo]

Since the end of the first book, I've always assumed Bran is the important Stark. I could be wrong, I think it would be funny if Sansa somehow ends up as the main piece, but my gut has said Bran.

[chesapeake]

I'm tempted to start asking a bunch of questions about when the book is coming out, now. I've always found the Starks to be far less interesting than the Lannisters. Other than the incest angle, which is just vile.

[DaddyTorgo]

Since the end of the first book, I've always assumed Bran is the important Stark. I could be wrong, I think it would be funny if Sansa somehow ends up as the main piece, but my gut has said Bran.

I agree with you, but I think in your "traditional" fantasy novel Robb would be your main character

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm tempted to start asking a bunch of questions about when the book is coming out, now. I've always found the Starks to be far less interesting than the Lannisters. Other than the incest angle, which is just vile.

Lannisters? Filthy, vile, incestuous, patricidal, turncoat Lannisters? At least give me House Martell or House Tyrell. Hell, even the Arryn's of the Vale, Wardens of the East. But no, you pick the Lannisters? :eek:

Then again, I guess you can't say they aren't "interesting."

[ISiddiqui]

Since the end of the first book, I've always assumed Bran is the important Stark. I could be wrong, I think it would be funny if Sansa somehow ends up as the main piece, but my gut has said Bran.

Quite right. Bran's beginnings seemed far more, how shall I say, humble than his older brother.

Don't worry, Sansa will get her central arc as well, especially after learning the craft of politics from Littlefinger.

[path12]

I'm about halfway through the third book (Storm of Swords?). Had to put it down because I was just getting tired of the whole Ser and lady mother and the "new/old" chivalry stuff -- or it might also have been that the Bran and Catelyn threads were really not doing much for me.

I'll get back to it (this happens to me in many series) but I'm also wondering if it's worth the payoff. I would really like to find out what happens with Dany and Tyrion though.....

Wow.... Storm of Swords is one of the best books I've ever read in the fantasy genre. At least finish that!

So......I started reading Storm of Swords again and what do I get??

The Red Wedding still ranks as the most pissed off I've ever been at a fiction book.

I thought that was so, so awesome and is emblematic of one of the things I do love about this series. The second half of this book really delivers. I'm glad I picked it back up.

[chesapeake]

Lannisters? Filthy, vile, incestuous, patricidal, turncoat Lannisters? At least give me House Martell or House Tyrell. Hell, even the Arryn's of the Vale, Wardens of the East. But no, you pick the Lannisters? :eek:

Then again, I guess you can't say they aren't "interesting."

The most dramatic character arcs belong to Jaime and Tyrion, in my judgment. You forgot "regicidal."

[DaddyTorgo]

The most dramatic character arcs belong to Jaime and Tyrion, in my judgment. You forgot "regicidal."

oh i agree about Jaime and Tyrion - and i was sort of lumping regicidal in with turncoat, but you're right i suppose that could be broken out on it's own

Dany & Jon & Arya (for all that everyone dislikes her) have also had massively dramatic character arcs.

[path12]

Dany & Jon & Arya (for all that everyone dislikes her) have also had massively dramatic character arcs.

People dislike Arya? I quite like her. I guess there is something that happens I haven't got to yet......she just left Sandor where I'm at in her arc.

[DaddyTorgo]

People dislike Arya? I quite like her. I guess there is something that happens I haven't got to yet......she just left Sandor where I'm at in her arc.

I dunno if "dislike" is the right word. I think there's a prevailing feeling out there in the land of readers that are sort of...i dunno...for lack of a better word, sick of her maybe? People feel like the stuff that is happening to her is just way unrealistic or something. Might also be because her POV starts to more significantly diverge from the main storyline and maybe it interrupts people's "flow".

I dunno - I don't have a problem with the Arya POV as much as I do with some of the others. I hope that doesn't really give anything for you. I toyed with putting a spoiler tag on it, but it doesn't really tell you much.

[path12]

I dunno if "dislike" is the right word. I think there's a prevailing feeling out there in the land of readers that are sort of...i dunno...for lack of a better word, sick of her maybe? People feel like the stuff that is happening to her is just way unrealistic or something. Might also be because her POV starts to more significantly diverge from the main storyline and maybe it interrupts people's "flow".

I dunno - I don't have a problem with the Arya POV as much as I do with some of the others. I hope that doesn't really give anything for you. I toyed with putting a spoiler tag on it, but it doesn't really tell you much.

Naw, I'm not worried about getting spoilered in a series with so many different characters.

As I progress though I understand the concern about how in the hell he's going to wrap all these threads up. I'm almost at the end of Storm of Swords (page 1000 or so) and just off the top of my head can think of nine or ten fairly major story arcs going on right now, only a few of which I can guess how they will intersect.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I dunno if "dislike" is the right word. I think there's a prevailing feeling out there in the land of readers that are sort of...i dunno...for lack of a better word, sick of her maybe? People feel like the stuff that is happening to her is just way unrealistic or something. Might also be because her POV starts to more significantly diverge from the main storyline and maybe it interrupts people's "flow".

I dunno - I don't have a problem with the Arya POV as much as I do with some of the others. I hope that doesn't really give anything for you. I toyed with putting a spoiler tag on it, but it doesn't really tell you much.

I've never heard of this dislike for Arya. I always thought that she was one of the POV's people liked the most. I know there's a ton of hate out there for Sansa, Catelyn, and Cersei... But Arya? Huh.

I've always enjoyed Arya's chapters, even in Feast where she starts to veer off a bit from what's going on in Westeros...

But Martin has been setting up the whole Arya as "Faceless Man" thing for a while, even before she met Jaqen Hagar. Her constant adoption of different identities (Arry, Weasle, Arya, Salty, etc.) and fascination with killing people have constant themes for the character. Her time with the Hound was classic.

I think the biggest problem facing Martin (and I don't think this is unique to Arya really) is how to make her relevant. Sure, making her a "Faceless Man" is a super cool idea, but to make it at all realistic it would take years and years.

I think he's in a similar boat with Tyrion. Tyrion is super clever, but, really, the only thing that made him what he was was beinng a Lannister, which, for all intents and purposes, he's not anymore.

Martin's written himself into quite a few corners it seems.

[ISiddiqui]

Dislike of Sansa's chapters? But that's where Littlefinger does his thing!@

Littlefinger be teh awesome.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dislike of Sansa's chapters? But that's where Littlefinger does his thing!@

Littlefinger be teh awesome.

People mainly dislike Sansa. Poor, Sansa.

Actually, if I had to pick one character's chapters most people dislike, it would probably be Bran's.

I am not sure if there's one I don't like. I guess I found Brianne's slightly dull. It was sort of more of the same from the earlier Arya chapters "war ravages the land, the smallfolk are the ones that suffer" and, as far as perspectives go, she's not terribly interesting. She doesn't have that complex of a take on the world or events. Not like, say, Cersei, Tyrion, or Jamie, for example.

[DaddyTorgo]

brianne's are pretty dull yeah

i actually like sansa and the whole littlefinger thing a lot

[terpkristin]

Weird.
I always loved Ayra, she's one of my favorite characters. And I never pegged Robb to be a central character, always figured this was really a story about Jon Snow and Dany. I do love the development of Bran, though.

/tk

[RendeR]

Of all the characters I admire I think I have to say I respect Stannis the most. I don't LIKE the man at all, he reminds me too much of...well...people I dislike ;) but the man BELIEVES in a thing and he follows it steadfastly.

His earnestness and his steadfast belief that he is in the right and true path of things is admirable.

He's still a schmuck though.

*shrugs*

[Schmidty]

I'm finally reading the series. I finished a Game of Thrones and am about 200 pages into a Clash of Kings, and I will say that although I am entertained, I can't say I LOVE the series so far. There are two main reasons:

1. It's depressing. For every good thing that happens, two shitty things happens. Yeah, yeah it's "real" fantasy, but it's like a cock-tease that goes nowhere.

2. FUCKING ROMANCE NOVEL SHIT!!!!!!! This is my biggest gripe. I don't mind romance, but I DO NOT want to read about a dude's glistening manhood throbbing and reflecting in the moonlight after hammering a 13 year-old girl. I also don't want to read the word "cunt" in my fantasy novel. I know that it's a societal thing with words like that, but it still irritates. For this reason, I dreaded seeing chapters about Dany in the first book. I like Tyrion, but I also skimmed his parts when he was humping that whore. The author is very good, but he uses cheap-ass romance novel tripe way too much. It's like his "look how real I am" crutch. It really turns me off. He should be better than that.

Anyway, I'm going to see this series through. I really hope it gets better though.

[DaddyTorgo]

I'm finally reading the series. I finished a Game of Thrones and am about 200 pages into a Clash of Kings, and I will say that although I am entertained, I can't say I LOVE the series so far. There are two main reasons:

1. It's depressing. For every good thing that happens, two shitty things happens. Yeah, yeah it's "real" fantasy, but it's like a cock-tease that goes nowhere.

2. FUCKING ROMANCE NOVEL SHIT!!!!!!! This is my biggest gripe. I don't mind romance, but I DO NOT want to read about a dude's glistening manhood throbbing and reflecting in the moonlight after hammering a 13 year-old girl. I also don't want to read the word "cunt" in my fantasy novel. I know that it's a societal thing with words like that, but it still irritates. For this reason, I dreaded seeing chapters about Dany in the first book. I like Tyrion, but I also skimmed his parts when he was humping that whore. The author is very good, but he uses cheap-ass romance novel tripe way too much. It's like his "look how real I am" crutch. It really turns me off. He should be better than that.

Anyway, I'm going to see this series through. I really hope it gets better though.

if anything #1 gets worse.

#2 - i agree to a point. it's that squirmy-uncomfortableness

[Schmidty]

if anything #1 gets worse.

Damn. What's the motivation to read the rest of the series then? I don't want to hear "because it's well-written and realistic fantasy". You can do those two things without being so......unfulfiling.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, #1 is why I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the series. Different strokes I guess.

#2 doesn't bother me in the slightest really.

[DaddyTorgo]

Btw, #1 is why I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the series. Different strokes I guess.

#2 doesn't bother me in the slightest really.

oh #1 is why I love it too.

#2 doesn't BOTHER me really, but i mean...there are times where it's kind of jarring

[Honolulu_Blue]

oh #1 is why I love it too.

#2 doesn't BOTHER me really, but i mean...there are times where it's kind of jarring

Yeah, I love #1.

As for #2, it doesn't really bother me too much. Sometimes it's a bit much. The little lesbian scenes with Dany and Cersei, in particular, though brief, just seemed surperfluous and more Skinemax fare than anything else.

I don't mind when it involves Tyrion. His lust for whores is a pretty important aspect of the character.

[Schmidty]

Edit - I was a drunken ass

[Schmidty]

Same as my last post.

[DaddyTorgo]

Quite honestly, I'm pretty much done with the series after that spoiler. Fucking bullshit.

:confused:

they're not like 20 page scenes, and they're not really integral to the characters - you could pretty much just skip over that total of like...1 page

[Grammaticus]

I've never heard of this dislike for Arya. I always thought that she was one of the POV's people liked the most. I know there's a ton of hate out there for Sansa, Catelyn, and Cersei... But Arya? Huh.

I've always enjoyed Arya's chapters, even in Feast where she starts to veer off a bit from what's going on in Westeros...

But Martin has been setting up the whole Arya as "Faceless Man" thing for a while, even before she met Jaqen Hagar. Her constant adoption of different identities (Arry, Weasle, Arya, Salty, etc.) and fascination with killing people have constant themes for the character. Her time with the Hound was classic.

I think the biggest problem facing Martin (and I don't think this is unique to Arya really) is how to make her relevant. Sure, making her a "Faceless Man" is a super cool idea, but to make it at all realistic it would take years and years.

I think he's in a similar boat with Tyrion. Tyrion is super clever, but, really, the only thing that made him what he was was beinng a Lannister, which, for all intents and purposes, he's not anymore.

Martin's written himself into quite a few corners it seems.
I can't really say that I hate any of the POV characters. But I found Arya's to be the least enjoyable or enticing. I'm not a big fan of Dany's either. I really liked Jon Snow, Tyrion, Jaime and Sansa. Although, in speaking with friends about the books, most of them seem to enjoy the Arya story arc. I guess, to each his/her own.

Two lesser characters I really like are Sandor Clegane and the Viper. I loved the fight between the Viper and Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Thanks for ruining the fact that Cersei and Dany do that stuff. Fuck.

I'm pretty pissed you didn't spoiler that. Ass.

Quite honestly, I'm pretty much done with the series after that spoiler. Fucking bullshit.

Good.

Mission Accomplished. Fuck face.

You want a spoiler? I'll give you a spoiler.


Suck it. Bitch.

[ISiddiqui]

Quite honestly, I'm pretty much done with the series after that spoiler. Fucking bullshit.

LOL! Seriously? I mean really, how silly is this. Why don't you save your spoiler outrage for something that actually, you know... affects the plot in some way.

[Fidatelo]

I've never been a huge fan of the Dany POVs, and Sansa's were terrible until the Littlefinger plotline (remember, there are like 2-3 books of her before then).

Arya has always been fun for me, I like Bran, and of course Tyrion is my absolute favorite. Jon's stuff is good too. I've never really liked the Greyjoy stuff at all, it's probably my least favorite.

[sachmo71]

I like Sansa a lot. She's one of the more interesting characters in the story, because her character is transforming in ways that equal or surpass even Dany's. The sweet, beautiful princess is learning what it takes to survive, and she will be more dangerous for it. She will be the anti-Cersi, and their fight will be the stuff of legend.

[DaddyTorgo]

Sansa's were terrible until the Littlefinger plotline (remember, there are like 2-3 books of her before then).

I've never really liked the Greyjoy stuff at all, it's probably my least favorite.

good points here. I had forgotten about the Greyjoy plotlines (haha last night in my Westeros: Total War game I wiped out like all the Greyjoy's. Killed the Lord Reaper (and his successor) about 4x over and beseiged their capital - not Pyke b/c I had already captured that - one of their mainland cities - while he was inside and captured it. They then bent the knee to Robb Stark as vassals - they have 1 city left and it's tiny lil Ten Towers).

Anyways - Littlefinger is such a delight to read. Such a Machiavellian schemer! And I second the comment about Sansa being a character who has had a huge arc in terms of growth - I think I made a comment along those lines earlier. And it's really great to see. Because as a little brat she annoyed me, but she's growing into as someone said, the anti-Cersi.

[Schmidty]

LOL! Seriously? I mean really, how silly is this. Why don't you save your spoiler outrage for something that actually, you know... affects the plot in some way.

Sorry. I had a few drinks for the first time in months, and I am not a happy drunk.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Sorry. I had a few drinks for the first time in months, and I am not a happy drunk.

It's ok. I didn't take anything you said seriously as should be evident by my response.

[Grammaticus]

I like Sansa a lot. She's one of the more interesting characters in the story, because her character is transforming in ways that equal or surpass even Dany's. The sweet, beautiful princess is learning what it takes to survive, and she will be more dangerous for it. She will be the anti-Cersi, and their fight will be the stuff of legend.

That is exactly what I thought. I was kind of hoping that she comes full circle and is the big event in the end. Whatever that may be. Martin did a great job of slowly bringing her along.

I've never been a huge fan of the Dany POVs, and Sansa's were terrible until the Littlefinger plotline (remember, there are like 2-3 books of her before then).

Arya has always been fun for me, I like Bran, and of course Tyrion is my absolute favorite. Jon's stuff is good too. I've never really liked the Greyjoy stuff at all, it's probably my least favorite.

Not a big fan of the Greyjoy's either. Although I really liked the storyline when Theon Greyjoy made his move. It was a great read.

[Schmidty]

I know I asked before: but does ANYTHING good happen EVER in this series? Do they kill off every character I care about? I just read that Bran and Rickon were murdered by Greyjoy (my least favorite character anyway), and I just don't feel like reading this anymore. I know it's supposed to be "realistic and shocking", but there comes a point where it gets so depressing, that the book becomes tedious and just not fun anymore. This series has so much potential, but it's losing me fast, especially if I know that nothing ever looks up eventually.

[Honolulu_Blue]

In response to your question, Schmidty...

Where you are at is a bit of a low point, but it gets worse in that regard. Much, much worse... (Though I believe George RR is really beginning to regret some of those decisions, if that makes you feel any better.)

I wont say anything more than that.

It's too bad that the downers are, well, getting you down. I get frustrated many times at the series for all sorts of things, but it never really stopped me from loving the books or enjoying them.

I'm currently listening to my 4th go around in "Clash of Kings" and still love it.

[Schmidty]

In response to your question, Schmidty...

Where you are at is a bit of a low point, but it gets worse in that regard. Much, much worse... (Though I believe George RR is really beginning to regret some of those decisions, if that makes you feel any better.)

Yeah, I think I'll finish the rest of this book, and find a different series to read. When there aren't any characters you care about anymore (other than Jon, Arya and Tyrion - sort of), what's the point of reading the book?

In fact, I'll ask for a spoiler - Does Arya get killed off eventually? Because even if I were to start reading the next book, I definitely wouldn't if I knew my favorite character dies eventually. So tell me please :)

[flere-imsaho]

1. I think you're reading some misleading or possibly even untrue spoilers.

2. "Good" is a matter of opinion. There are certainly some cathartic moments amongst the chaos that I enjoyed.

I view it this way: ASoIaF is where LoTR was just after Moria: things are generally in the crapper and hopeless. There's a lot more to go, and things will only begin to look up incrementally, but the payoff will be really good.

Unless Martin dies, of course.

[terpkristin]

Schmidty...
As of the end of the 4th book, she's still around

[Honolulu_Blue]

Schmidty:

So far, Arya is still alive and well (for the most part). She actually has some awesome scenes in the 3rd book and is taken in a very interesting (though very much telegraphed) direction in book 4.

There are still a ton of characters I care about and am interested. In fact, I wont give anything away, but the unbelievable fact of who (in my opinion) is one of coolest and most interesting character in books 3 and 4 is probably one of Martin's greatest achievements.

In addition to still liking many of the characters (including minor ones), I love all the politics, plots, schemes, battles, history, etc.

[flere-imsaho]

If you're thinking of stopping, I'd just stop, and not bother finishing your current book, since each book ends depressingly. If the remaining books end on better notes we'll let you know so you can pick them up again.

As of the latest published book, Arya isn't dead, and neither are Bran nor Rickon. Plus, some people who appeared to be dead really aren't.

One technique for coping that may work better: instead of rooting for the good guys to come through (the "typical" reaction to fantasy stories), root for the bad guys to get their comeuppance (or just to die, horribly).

[lordscarlet]

1. I think you're reading some misleading or possibly even untrue spoilers.

2. "Good" is a matter of opinion. There are certainly some cathartic moments amongst the chaos that I enjoyed.

I view it this way: ASoIaF is where LoTR was just after Moria: things are generally in the crapper and hopeless. There's a lot more to go, and things will only begin to look up incrementally, but the payoff will be really good.

Unless Martin dies, of course.

Schmidty, this spoiler has something you may not want to read before you finish.


I don't think he's reading spoilers. There is a point in the book where you think Bran and Rickon are dead, but later it turns out they are not.

[Schmidty]

Thanks for letting me know. I realize I'm being sort of whiny and babyish, but I just put so much into characters when I read books. I realize everything can't always be perfect in a novel or there would be no point to a story, but I like to see some light.

Meh, I'll probably still read them slowly while I;m reading other books.

[DaddyTorgo]

i agree with flere - don't root for particular good guys. just root for the bad folks to get what's coming to them.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, but some bad folks became "good" guys too ;).

[Schmidty]

Yeah, but some bad folks became "good" guys too ;).

Tyrion I hope. Or hell, maybe even the Dog. :)

[ISiddiqui]

Oh man, keep reading. I want to see your reaction :).

edit: Oh, and when was Tyrion ever bad? Aside from being associated with a crappy family?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Tyrion a bad guy?

I know it's sort of initially set up as a Starks/North (good) vs. Lannisters/South (evil), but the beauty of the world is that, for the most part, it's all shades of grey and matter of perspective.

There are a few pretty unreemable monsters (i.e., Gregor Clegane, Vargo Hoat, Amory Lorch, etc.), but most characters are more nuianced than that.

I've always considered Tyrion to be a "good" guy. He just happens to have an incredible asshole for a father, an arrogant prick for a brother, and an insane woman for a sister. Can't pick your family.

[Schmidty]

I love Tyrion, but he's pretty loyal to that fucked up family (not the people necessarily), so it makes him a gray figure for me. But he's still a character I love reading about. As an aside, one of my best friends back in the late 90's, early '00's before we lost touch a bit was a dwarf, so I always picture him as Tyrion. It's weird.

[DaddyTorgo]

I don't think Tyrion's really a bad guy. I think you have to admit that he is setup at least initially as somewhat of a bad guy, but he certainly has his more redemptive moments. He's just been cursed by being allied with a power-hungry father and an incestuous brother/sister. And like most of us, he feels a strong degree of loyalty to that family. It's almost like he hopes that he can finally win his father's love/respect if he is the family's "fixer" for long enough.

[flere-imsaho]

If you like Tyrion as a character, then I would definitely recommend to keep on reading.

[WSUCougar]

but he's pretty loyal to that fucked up family
This could be a subtitle for the whole series. And I mean that in a good way!

[ISiddiqui]

It's almost like he hopes that he can finally win his father's love/respect if he is the family's "fixer" for long enough.

Well..

until he kills him ;)

[JeeberD]

Man, now I want to give the series a second reading as soon as I'm done with my current book. Thanks a lot, y'all...

[terpkristin]

So, um, I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned here, from GRRM's "Not A Blog" LiveJournal:

At last it can be told.

The news has finally been made public, so I'm finally free to whoop and holler and share the great news -- the HBO pilot of A GAME OF THRONES will start filming in October, in Northern Ireland. The announcement was made in Belfast. Here you go:

http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/n<wbr>ews/news-ofmdfm/news-ofmdfm-210409-hbo-t<wbr>o-film.htm (http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news/news-ofmdfm/news-ofmdfm-210409-hbo-to-film.htm)

Yes, I'm thrilled. Ireland should be a great place to film. And the facility we'll be using, the Paint Hall, is amazing as well:

http://www.northernirelandscreen.co.u<wbr>k/page.asp?id=211 (http://www.northernirelandscreen.co.uk/page.asp?id=211)

Before it was a film studio, the Paint Hall was part of Belfast's famous Harland & Wolff Shipyards, where the TITANIC and many other ships were constructed. The facility is pretty titanic as well. Of course, all of us connected with A GAME OF THRONES are hoping we'll fare somewhat better on our own maiden voyage.

Yes, Parris and I will be going over to Ireland this fall to see at least part of the filming. Not for the whole shoot, alas, I don't have time for that... but we have to be there for at least part of it. Maybe we'll see some of you in a Belfast pub.

There's lots of other exciting news on the pilot as well, but nothing I can share. Sorry, lips are sealed. You'll have to wait for Mr. Benioff and Mr. Weiss... and HBO.
Looks like it's a LOT closer to happening than I ever thought it'd get. Pretty nifty!!!

/tk

[DaddyTorgo]

cool news!

[MrBug708]

Dont we have a ASOIAF hbo series thread around here? :)

[SirFozzie]

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

[terpkristin]

Dont we have a ASOIAF hbo series thread around here? :)

I think we do but it was a lot easier to find this one that had been bumped recently. ;) :D

/tk

[terpkristin]

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

I had interest in the RPG but never picked up the stuff because I had nobody to play with. A FOFC game could be quite fun.

/tk

[Honolulu_Blue]

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

I bought the new one a few weeks ago. I actually have the old one too. I haven't really had a chance to read throught it or anything.

[DaddyTorgo]

Speaking of ASOIAF.. anyone play the RPG? Maybe we should get a FOFC game going some time.

I was keeping an eye on this one: A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying: Ours is the Fury! (http://www.greenronin.com/sifrp/)

are there others???

[Honolulu_Blue]

I was keeping an eye on this one: A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying: Ours is the Fury! (http://www.greenronin.com/sifrp/)

are there others???

There was one released a few years back, but the company went out of business, so they moved the rights to Green Ronin.

The main rule book was just released last month.

[DaddyTorgo]

*nods* so that is what we're talking about - there's not others out there?

if so - hells yeah I'm down for a FOFC-game. Hella down. Was planning on picking it up anyways.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Looks like it's a LOT closer to happening than I ever thought it'd get. Pretty nifty!!!

/tk

That is very cool. I didn't really give it much of a shot at all. There is a website (the name escapes me at the moment) that tracks this stuff pretty closely. It's dedicated the (potential) HBO series.

They actually had a link to the PDF of the pilot episode. It runs from the begining of the book to the "The things I do for love" line. It includes the Dany stuff as well.

It was pretty interesting, except for one added scene that was kind of silly. They had this scene between Ned and Jamie during the feast in Winterfell that basically boils down to a machismo pissing match between the "two greatest warriors" in Westeros. It fit Jamie fine, but it seemed so out of character for Ned that it felt off.

Still, I am pretty excited by the prospect of the series. I'd love to see it in action.

[Fidatelo]

How would an FOFC RPG thing work? I'd be totally down assuming the logistics are workable.

[JAG]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have the board game? I received it as a gift a month or two ago, but hadn't had a chance to delve into the rules much less play it.

[Coffee Warlord]

How would an FOFC RPG thing work? I'd be totally down assuming the logistics are workable.

Easiest way is IRC.

[Fidatelo]

Oh so it would be a real-time thing. I'm gonna have to bow out. I was thinking maybe it would happen via email or something.

[DaddyTorgo]

Maybe it could be done at a slower pace that way - idk

As far the boardgame - don't have it, but want it!

[flere-imsaho]

So HBO's going to film a miniseries based on a book that basically ends on a cliffhanger, with the books that resolve the questions posed in the first book not even written? Really?

[JAG]

So HBO's going to film a miniseries based on a book that basically ends on a cliffhanger, with the books that resolve the questions posed in the first book not even written? Really?

I figure it's going to take Martin at least 7-8 years to finish up the series (figure 4-5 years for the next book, 3-4 years for the last one). If HBO puts out a book's worth of episodes a year, they will be waiting for the last book to finish before doing the final season.

Granted there are a lot of assumptions here.

[ISiddiqui]

And remember how long it takes HBO to get new seasons out for a show (Sopranos fans know what I'm talking about).

[flere-imsaho]

I'll be surprised if it's just two more books.

[GrantDawg]

So HBO's going to film a miniseries based on a book that basically ends on a cliffhanger, with the books that resolve the questions posed in the first book not even written? Really?


Ummmm....I've been watching the Tudors. It is real enjoyable, but you pretty much know who is going to die and how (because, you know, it's like history and stuff). People who have read the books will be enthralled to see how it'll play out on the HBO version, and those who haven't are going to get some big surprises.

[Honolulu_Blue]

If it really ends up happening, it will be interesting to see how they make it work. Do they do the dire wolves in CGI?

You also have the fact that one of the main characters, Jamie Lannister, who is built up as one of main "villains" in the first "season" is pretty much non-existent in the second "season".

Dinklage for Tyrion!

Other than that bit of casting... No real clue. I have much faith in the HBO casting people. They did a marvelous job with The Wire, Deadwood, Rome, etc.

[terpkristin]

Easiest way is IRC.

IRC does make sense, though I think a PBeM or a thread here in Dynasty could work, as well.

Anyone have a link for the actual RPG stuff?
And the board game? That's something I'd never get to play with anyone local, but would be cool to have.

/tk

[Schmidty]

I would do the RPG, but I guess that there would be a ton of spoilers since I'm only on A Storm of Swords.

[Galaril]

I'll be surprised if it's just two more books.

I think he was originally saying three- maybe four more books and that was before he had to split the last one in two second of which is not out yet. So for arguments sake lets say XMAS this year Dance dragons is out and that leaves at least 2 more at 4 years each(lets be optimists) that puts it at about 2018-19 for wrap of the novels. Martin is 60 now so he would be 71 when the books are done IF he keeps it to just two more if it is more than two I doubt he is able to complete the series. Maybe if the series does well he can be pushed by HBO to finish the series. The series could be like the Legend of the Seeker series on now adays based some what loosely on the COMPLETED Goodkind series Sword Of Truth.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I would do the RPG, but I guess that there would be a ton of spoilers since I'm only on A Storm of Swords.

While obviously the setting is flexible, the RPG is supposed to take place during King Robert's reign.

I'd let you play Moon Boy.

[DaddyTorgo]

*evil cackle* MOON BOY!!!

[Chief Rum]

I figure it's going to take Martin at least 7-8 years to finish up the series (figure 4-5 years for the next book, 3-4 years for the last one). If HBO puts out a book's worth of episodes a year, they will be waiting for the last book to finish before doing the final season.

Granted there are a lot of assumptions here.

Man, I wish I had your optimism.

[flere-imsaho]

If it really ends up happening, it will be interesting to see how they make it work. Do they do the dire wolves in CGI?

I'm thinking Irish Wolfhounds utilizing canine growth hormone. :D

[Autumn]

I had interest in the RPG but never picked up the stuff because I had nobody to play with. A FOFC game could be quite fun.

/tk

That could be really fun. I havent' checked out the RPG, but I've played a lot through IRC and e-mail. I'd be up for it.

[JAG]

Man, I wish I had your optimism.

Are you purposefully overlooking the 'at least' in the above? ;) There were so many assumptions in that post it was probably not worth writing as it is.

[WSUCougar]

While obviously the setting is flexible, the RPG is supposed to take place during King Robert's reign.

I'd let you play Moon Boy.
Dibs on Hodor!

By the way, I have the boardgame, Jamie (big surprise).

[Ramzavail]

Just bought the first book tonight, I remember this thread when I was in B&N and went for it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Just bought the first book tonight, I remember this thread when I was in B&N and went for it.

congrats! you're in for a wild ride! love to hear your impressions as you read - it's always enjoyable

[3ric]

Has anyone else seen this? Amazon.co.uk list "Dance of Dragons" as available from October 29th, 2009.
A Dance with Dragons: Book 5 of a Song of Ice and Fire: George R.R. Martin: Amazon.co.uk: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dance-Dragons-Book-Song-Fire/dp/0002247399/ref=pd_ys_ir_all_2)

I'm pre-ordering right now.

[terpkristin]

Anyone have seen this? Amazon.co.uk list "Dance of Dragons" as available from October 29th, 2009.
A Dance with Dragons: Book 5 of a Song of Ice and Fire: George R.R. Martin: Amazon.co.uk: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dance-Dragons-Book-Song-Fire/dp/0002247399/ref=pd_ys_ir_all_2)

I have a feeling that this might just be publisher wishful thinking. I haven't seen GRRM post on his "Not A Blog" LiveJournal or his website that he's done, and he's assured us that he'll let us know the instant it's done. Granted, I haven't checked them in a couple of days, but it strikes me that if they were to release it on 10/29, it'd probably be in the publisher's hands right now. :(

/tk

[3ric]

It could be. Oh well, I should get email updates from amazon when the release date is pushed ahead.

[Coder]

Having just read Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series (first three books), and then watching the first few episodes of the series, I'm seriously worried about how the HBO-series for SOIAF will turn out.

Now, I'm fully aware of the fact that HBO is a whole different beast than ABC, but if producers/writers decide to have this much "creative freedom" when adapting a book series for the small screen I'm just appalled.

[Samdari]

I have a feeling that this might just be publisher wishful thinking. I haven't seen GRRM post on his "Not A Blog" LiveJournal or his website that he's done, and he's assured us that he'll let us know the instant it's done. Granted, I haven't checked them in a couple of days, but it strikes me that if they were to release it on 10/29, it'd probably be in the publisher's hands right now. :(

/tk

GRRM's blog posts have been pretty specific on this point - if you see any date before he announces the book is done on his website, it is indeed the marketing department giving the distributor a placeholder date so that they can have the book in their database.

Its NOT going to be out in October. I am pretty sure that the author's latest, sure to be missed, I hope to have it done by date is the end of the summer.

I actually think October 2010 is a reasonable expectation for the book to be published.

[ISiddiqui]

Has anyone else seen this? Amazon.co.uk list "Dance of Dragons" as available from October 29th, 2009.
A Dance with Dragons: Book 5 of a Song of Ice and Fire: George R.R. Martin: Amazon.co.uk: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dance-Dragons-Book-Song-Fire/dp/0002247399/ref=pd_ys_ir_all_2)

I'm pre-ordering right now.

Dude... last year at this time, Amazon had the book available "October 29th, 2008". And I'm not joking.

[flere-imsaho]

It's merely Amazon putting a placeholder in their database.

[Honolulu_Blue]

First bit of actual casting news...

Two will play HBO's 'Game' (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i30b29365238b3652e08e2efdc7f0af62)

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Two will play HBO's 'Game'

Director McCarthy, actor Dinklage in for pilot

By Nellie Andreeva
May 5, 2009, 11:00 PM ET
<TABLE class=news_col cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY></TBODY></TABLE>
Tom McCarthy has come aboard to direct HBO's fantasy pilot "Game of Thrones," on which the star of his first feature, "The Station Agent's" Peter Dinklage, has been tapped for a key role.

Based on George R.R. Martin's best-selling "Songs of Fire and Ice" novels, "Thrones" is described as an epic struggle for power set in a vast and violent fantasy kingdom. Dinklage will play Tyrion, the Queen's brother who is treated as an outsier because of his size.

David Benioff and D.B. Weiss penned the pilot script and are exec producing. HBO Entertainment president-turned-producer Carolyn Strauss, Management 360's Guymon Casady, Vince Gerardis, Ralph Vicinanza and Martin serve as co-exec producers, and Mark Huffam and Frank Doelger are producers.

"Thrones" is slated to film in the third quarter in Belfast, Northern Ireland, in what the country's First Minister Peter Robinson hails as "the first TV production of such vast size and scale that has been filmed in Northern Ireland."

Dinklage, repped by manager David Ginsberg and attorney Karl Austen, is filming two features: the indie "Pete Smalls Is Dead," which he also co-produces, and Screen Gems/Sidney Kimmel's remake of "Death at a Funeral."

"Thrones" marks the first TV directorial gig for the Gersh-repped McCarthy, an actor who wrote and directed two features, 2003's "Station Agent" and 2007's "The Visitor," both of which landed him Indie Spirit Awards. On the acting side, McCarthy next appears in "2012."

----------------------

Dinklage was always the first choice for Tyrion. That's awesome news.

I loved the "Station Agent" and "The Visitor" has been sitting next to my TV for a month now. Sounds like HBO is doing what it does best, attempting to put quality people behind and in its series.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Honolulu_Blue]

Some interesting news. So far, based on what I've seen of their "Blood Bowl" game, I've been impressed.

http://www.cyanide-studio.com/?rub=node&nid=806
Cyanide Acquires Interactive Rights for George R. R. Martin’s
‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ series

CYANIDE, A FRENCH VIDEO GAME STUDIO, SECURES INTERACTIVE RIGHTS TO GEORGE R. R. MARTIN’S BESTSELLING ‘A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE’ SERIES

First-Ever ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ Video Games to Bring Classic Fantasy Series to Life


Nanterre, France – 12th May 2009

Cyanide, an independent video game studio, and George R. R. Martin today announced their partnership to create the first-ever video games inspired by the author’s award-winning, international bestselling ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ fantasy series.

Under the terms of the agreement, Cyanide has obtained the exclusive rights to develop ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ video games for next-generation consoles and PC, and in collaboration with George R.R Martin, development has begun.

«We are all huge fans of ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’, so it is a true honour for our teams to be entrusted with creating the first video games inspired by this masterpiece» stated Patrick Pligersdorffer, Managing Director of Cyanide. «The twists and turns of the plot will allow us to deliver an experience which can be enjoyed by both long-time fans as well as gamers new to the series.»

Published most notably by Bantam Books in North America and Voyager Books in the United Kingdom, the ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ novels have been translated into more than twenty languages (including Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Russian) and have been nominated for numerous prizes. Set in a world where nothing is simply black and white, the rich web of characters makes it an ideal background for numerous genres of video games.

‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ has already been adapted into a card game and a board game. More recently, HBO acquired the rights with the intent of turning the novels into a television series.

[Samdari]

Cyanide, an independent video game studio, and George R. R. Martin today announced their partnership to create the first-ever video games inspired by the author’s award-winning, international bestselling ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ fantasy series.

‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ has already been adapted into a card game and a board game. More recently, HBO acquired the rights with the intent of turning the novels into a television series.

Card game, board game, video game, tv series. This series is everywhere.....

Except, you know, books.

[DaddyTorgo]

video game? for pc? sweet

and i need to get my ass back to my westeros:total war work

[flere-imsaho]

Card game, board game, video game, tv series. This series is everywhere.....

Except, you know, books.

:D

[SirFozzie]

Cyanide is the folks doing the upcoming Blood Bowl Game, btw :)

[DaddyTorgo]

aren't they the french company that does the pro cycling manager game too?

and aren't they like in <3 with StarForce copy protection?

[Galaril]

video game? for pc? sweet

and i need to get my ass back to my westeros:total war work

I hope it is arole playing strategy game and not some lame ass EA style first person 15 scripted mission game.

[DaddyTorgo]

i hope so too

[kurtism]

George RR Martin is not your bitch...

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html

[Tigercat]

I would never be a person to really complain about a long awaited novel, but I think Gaiman has it wrong. He does work for his readers.

I write in my spare time. It is in the realm of small possibilities that one day my current crap will evolve into something publishable. If that happens, and if I somehow develop a base of loyal fans that pay my bills through their purchases, I hope I recognize that I *do* work for their support.

The key is letting your supporters know where things stand as best as possible, to treat them as the supporters that they are, not feeling the need to acquiesce to their demands and truly become their bitch.

[Honolulu_Blue]

George RR Martin is not your bitch...

Neil Gaiman's Journal: Entitlement issues... (http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html)

I've never really read too much of Gaiman's stuff, but I think this is the second thing today that I've read from him (another was interview about something or other) that made me smile. I like this Neil Gaiman.

I would never be a person to really complain about a long awaited novel, but I think Gaiman has it wrong. He does work for his readers.

...

The key is letting your supporters know where things stand as best as possible, to treat them as the supporters that they are, not feeling the need to acquiesce to their demands and truly become their bitch.

Personally, I think Martin does an excellent job with this. I've heard him speak a few times and I know friends of mine who have emailed him with some requests (signing a book, etc.) and he's always been incredibly personable and gone above and beyond the call of duty.

To be honest, I think has let his supporters "know where things stand as best as possible." I just don't think he knows where things stand.

[Chief Rum]

I've never really read too much of Gaiman's stuff, but I think this is the second thing today that I've read from him (another was interview about something or other) that made me smile. I like this Neil Gaiman.



Personally, I think Martin does an excellent job with this. I've heard him speak a few times and I know friends of mine who have emailed him with some requests (signing a book, etc.) and he's always been incredibly personable and gone above and beyond the call of duty.

To be honest, I think has let his supporters "know where things stand as best as possible." I just don't think he knows where things stand.

Gaiman's a very interesting character. I generally like his stuff. I recommend American Gods and Neverwhere (for sure), maybe some others. He also did Stardust, which came out a couple years as a movie, and Coraline, the stop motion animation kid's movie earlier this year. He does creepy-style stuff, kinda like a Tim Burton for writers.

I tend to agree with his general point on Martin. My issue with Martin isn't whether or not he does the work--it's with him saying he's going to get it done by such and such date and repeatedly fail to deliver. At least now I think he's going with the "it will be done when it's done" line, which he should have done from the start.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Gaiman's a very interesting character. I generally like his stuff. I recommend American Gods and Neverwhere (for sure), maybe some others. He also did Stardust, which came out a couple years as a movie, and Coraline, the stop motion animation kid's movie earlier this year. He does creepy-style stuff, kinda like a Tim Burton for writers.

I am very familiar with Gaiman's work, just have never read any of it. Well, I do have the first trade paperback for the "Sandman" series. I need to finish that and determine if I want to continue. I feel like it's a hole in my comic book knowledge.

[flere-imsaho]

My issue with Martin isn't whether or not he does the work--it's with him saying he's going to get it done by such and such date and repeatedly fail to deliver. At least now I think he's going with the "it will be done when it's done" line, which he should have done from the start.

:+1:

Oh, and American Gods is one of my favorite books, ever, but Good Omens is even better.

[ISiddiqui]

+2

I mean no one gets on Blizzard's back for releasing Starcraft 2 so much later... It's because they don't get the fans hopes up by saying it'll be released so and so and then blowing past it.

[terpkristin]

Cautiously optimistic?
Not A Blog - Guarded Optimism (http://grrm.livejournal.com/92848.html)

I almost hate to say anything here, for fear of jinxing it... but for what it's worth, the last six weeks or so have been the most productive period I've had on A DANCE WITH DRAGONS in... well... a year at least, maybe several. In the last three days I've completed three new chapters. Not from scratch, mind you, these were all chapters that had been partially written, and in some cases rewritten, for months if not years. But they're finally done, and I've just reread them, and I'm almost convinced that they're Not Crap.

We'll see how I feel tomorrow.

Anyway, I know I don't talk about DANCE frequently here, and that's not going to change. Sorry, but I'm never going to be one of these writers who blogs daily about how many words they produced today. I don't like to talk about the good days for fear of jinxing myself (all writers are superstitious at heart, just like baseball players), and I don't like to talk about the bad days... well, just because. Writing is like sausage making in my view; you'll all be happier in the end if you just eat the final product without knowing what's gone into it.

But I am making a small exception now because... well, I'm feeling rather jazzed right now, and for the first time in a very long while, I think I can see a glimmering that might just be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Now if I can only slash through the Meereenese knot that I've been worrying at since 2005, I may actually start to get excited.

/tk

[Honolulu_Blue]

Cautiously optimistic?
Not A Blog - Guarded Optimism (http://grrm.livejournal.com/92848.html)



/tk

Yeah, I saw that today. I'm glad to hear things clicked for him.

Still, as I think I've mentioned here before, whenever he gives an update about finishing a few chapters here or there, this exchange from the "Princess Bride" always runs through my head:

Fezzik: You just shook your head... doesn't that make you happy?

Westley: My brains, his steel, and your strength against sixty men, and you think a little head jiggle is supposed to make me happy?

[Schmidty]

My wife grabbed my copy of "A Game of Thrones" over the weekend, and is hooked. She's a lover of happy endings, so I told her to not get too attached to anyone or any situation.

I've been done for 3 weeks or so, and I'm still conflicted. Part of me loved the books, but part of me feels unfulfilled (not just because the series isn't done). I really don't think the author will ever finish the series, which sucks. As slow as he is writing, and the fact that there are so many threads of the story that aren't even close to being resolved gives me little hope of resolution.

[Honolulu_Blue]

My wife grabbed my copy of "A Game of Thrones" over the weekend, and is hooked. She's a lover of happy endings, so I told her to not get too attached to anyone or any situation.

I've been done for 3 weeks or so, and I'm still conflicted. Part of me loved the books, but part of me feels unfulfilled (not just because the series isn't done). I really don't think the author will ever finish the series, which sucks. As slow as he is writing, and the fact that there are so many threads of the story that aren't even close to being resolved gives me little hope of resolution.

I have similar concerns. He's certainly written himself into many, many corners and, I think, that's one of the big reasons this last book is taking so long. There are a number of issues that I just don't know how he resolves. Some of the bigger ones, to me at least, are: How does Tyrion become relevant again? How does Arya become relevant? Bran? Dany's dragons? For the last three it's really just a matter of time, but given how slowly time has moved and how many things from the last book demmand immediate attention (the fates of Arya, Brienne, Cersei, and Sansa) , I don't see how time will progress quick enough to get them in a position they need to be (i.e., Bran mastering whatever the hell he's supposed to master, Arya becoming an actual Faceless Man, unless this whole thing is just some frolic and detour, and Dany's dragons being large enough to be ridden into battle and effective at doing so).

For Tyrion, I'm not sure what he'll do. What value is he to anyone other than as a way to gain favor from the Lannisters in the form of bringing them his head? The only thing that made him a "player" was his family's wealth and power. He doesn't have that anymore. All he is now is a witty, smart, ugly and horribly scarred dwarf with a large price on his mishapen head.

My wife grabbed my copy of "A Game of Thrones" over the weekend, and is hooked. She's a lover of happy endings, so I told her to not get too attached to anyone or any situation.

Poor, Mrs. Schmidty. She sounds like a young Sansa, her head full of songs and stories. She might just quit right around the end of book one. Many people, myself included, found that very upsetting.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, I saw that today. I'm glad to hear things clicked for him.

Still, as I think I've mentioned here before, whenever he gives an update about finishing a few chapters here or there, this exchange from the "Princess Bride" always runs through my head:

Fezzik: You just shook your head... doesn't that make you happy?

Westley: My brains, his steel, and your strength against sixty men, and you think a little head jiggle is supposed to make me happy?

LOL! Perfect quote to use in the situation... especially since I was like, ok, three chapters in three days... how many total chapters have you done over the six weeks? Four?

[JAG]

Optimistic? From what I read, I don't expect him to fulfill his prediction of having the book out this year (I know, there's a surprise to everyone, only Daivd Winter has been more accurate with his predictions). I will say, despite everything I've been cautiously optimistic he would finish the series before dying, but when I read stuff like:

Now if I can only slash through the Meereenese knot that I've been worrying at since 2005, I may actually start to get excited.

Or earlier when he talked about finishing a Bran chapter he'd been working on for 3 years, well, I guess I am changing to realism that he simply won't be able to finish the series. It's a shame and I wish he was more into his series as he apparently has been the past six weeks, but on the other hand, I give him credit for only wanting to put out books that meet what he considers to be high quality.

[Schmidty]

I hope that if he ever realizes that he won't finish, that he at least gives a brief outline of what happens to resolve everything.

[ISiddiqui]

I think it has to dawn on him sometimes soon (if not already) that he's going to die before the series is finished.

[sachmo71]

I have similar concerns. He's certainly written himself into many, many corners and, I think, that's one of the big reasons this last book is taking so long. There are a number of issues that I just don't know how he resolves. Some of the bigger ones, to me at least, are: How does Tyrion become relevant again? How does Arya become relevant? Bran? Dany's dragons? For the last three it's really just a matter of time, but given how slowly time has moved and how many things from the last book demmand immediate attention (the fates of Arya, Brienne, Cersei, and Sansa) , I don't see how time will progress quick enough to get them in a position they need to be (i.e., Bran mastering whatever the hell he's supposed to master, Arya becoming an actual Faceless Man, unless this whole thing is just some frolic and detour, and Dany's dragons being large enough to be ridden into battle and effective at doing so).

For Tyrion, I'm not sure what he'll do. What value is he to anyone other than as a way to gain favor from the Lannisters in the form of bringing them his head? The only thing that made him a "player" was his family's wealth and power. He doesn't have that anymore. All he is now is a witty, smart, ugly and horribly scarred dwarf with a large price on his mishapen head.



Poor, Mrs. Schmidty. She sounds like a young Sansa, her head full of songs and stories. She might just quit right around the end of book one. Many people, myself included, found that very upsetting.

Tyrion's man Braun has quite a lot of gold. With the throne in question for now, and some gold, they can raise and army and stake a claim. If he can ally with Jamie...who knows?

As for Bran or Arya, I figure Arya will end up running a band of rebels, and Bran will do "something" with the northmen. Add Dany and her people into the mix, and you can have a hell of a wrap-up! but if he keeps on his no-mercy style of storytelling, Bran and Arya will end up dead, with Jamie fighting off an invasion from Dany.

I'm looking forward to reading it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

While there's no new news on "A Dance With Dragons" there's been a lot of casting news with respect to the HBO show.

Not A Blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/)

The biggest piece of news is the casting of Sean Bean (Boromir) as Ned Stark. It's a great choice. I thought he was fantastic as Boromir (just watched the first LOTR movie again few weeks back).

Robert Baratheon has also been cast. He's being played by Mark Addy. I've only ever seen a few minutes of a "Kinght's Tale", but I don't recall much from his performance.

There is also casting news on Jon Snow, Joffrey Baratheon, and Viserys Targaryen. A bunch of younger actors who really haven't done anything.

[DaddyTorgo]

While there's no new news on "A Dance With Dragons" there's been a lot of casting news with respect to the HBO show.

Not A Blog (http://grrm.livejournal.com/)

The biggest piece of news is the casting of Sean Bean (Boromir) as Ned Stark. It's a great choice. I thought he was fantastic as Boromir (just watched the first LOTR movie again few weeks back).

Robert Baratheon has also been cast. He's being played by Mark Addy. I've only ever seen a few minutes of a "Kinght's Tale", but I don't recall much from his performance.

There is also casting news on Jon Snow, Joffrey Baratheon, and Viserys Targaryen. A bunch of younger actors who really haven't done anything.

Love Sean Bean, but I might almost think he'd work better as say...Jaime? After LOTR he definately has the stage-combat skills to do all the fighting, and he's the calibre of actor who they need for a role like that. Maybe he's not quite "pretty enough" for that role though.

And yeah...it'll suck to see him playing ANOTHER character who gets killed early. But maybe part of the thinking is that casting him as Ned will increase the emotional resonance of the viewer's reaction (as most viewers are likely to recognize him from LOTR) and make it that much more intense and get people to tune in.

Mark Addy I don't recognize the name or the face. But okay.

[wade moore]

Bean is definitely not pretty enough for Jaime. I like him as Ned.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah...I typed out that post and then said "hmm...Bean's prolly not pretty enough for Jaime" and went back and edited that bit in.

He'll be great as Ned, no doubt about it. Just going to suck when he meets his fate (again).

[flere-imsaho]

I expected Ned to be taller than thinner than Bean, but he's a good choice regardless, especially as the series will want a good actor to get the endeavor off the ground (Ned gets a lot of time in the forefront before the inevitable happens).

[ISiddiqui]

Jaime is going to be the most difficult one to cast. I think it has to be an Orlando Bloom type of person (well an Orlando Bloom who can act - and be convincing as sometimes evil/sometimes good character).

[JeeberD]

Fred Flintstone (the back-up version, even) is playing Robert? Yeesh...

[Honolulu_Blue]

I expected Ned to be taller than thinner than Bean, but he's a good choice regardless, especially as the series will want a good actor to get the endeavor off the ground (Ned gets a lot of time in the forefront before the inevitable happens).

I did too. I actually always thought Liam Neeson would be perfect, but Sean Bean works well.

With Tom McCarthy at the helm and Dinklage and Bean on board, things are looking pretty good.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Fred Flintstone (the back-up version, even) is playing Robert? Yeesh...

I was flipping through some pictures of him on his IMDB page. There are some stills from a movie called "The Order" (don't recall it, though it had Heath Ledger in it) and he looked much more Robertesque than he did as the poorman's Fred Flintstone.

[DaddyTorgo]

I was flipping through some pictures of him on his IMDB page. There are some stills from a movie called "The Order" (don't recall it, though it had Heath Ledger in it) and he looked much more Robertesque than he did as the poorman's Fred Flintstone.

IIRC that was a pretty sweet flick.

[wade moore]

Jaime is going to be the most difficult one to cast. I think it has to be an Orlando Bloom type of person (well an Orlando Bloom who can act - and be convincing as sometimes evil/sometimes good character).

See, I think it's even tougher than that. For me, Jaime is a much bigger guy than Orlando Bloom. I'm picturing someone more say... Jon Cena sized, but who can act and has Bloom's looks.

[DaddyTorgo]

here's a thought - Khal Drogo = The Rock

I keep picturing him in Scorpion King getup

lol

[JeeberD]

I was flipping through some pictures of him on his IMDB page. There are some stills from a movie called "The Order" (don't recall it, though it had Heath Ledger in it) and he looked much more Robertesque than he did as the poorman's Fred Flintstone.

Well, I wasn't going based off of looks, really (though Robert is supposed to be huge all around, not just his gut). Addy is much more of a comedic actor, and Robert isn't exactly a comedic character. Hopefully he has dramatic chops that I'm not aware of...

[flere-imsaho]

For Jaime I see Jason Isaacs (Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter) or Martin Csokas (Celeborn in LOTR). Generally not overly muscle-bound.

[wade moore]

For Jaime I see Jason Isaacs (Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter) or Martin Csokas (Celeborn in LOTR). Generally not overly muscle-bound.

Yeah, I was trying to think of someone big, but not muscle bound. Almost went Matt Damon there - in body type that is.

[Fidatelo]

I think a buffed-up (not roided, just buff) DiCaprio would make a good Jamie. Not that it would ever happen, but if we're throwing out names.

[flere-imsaho]

Damon and DiCaprio are too short.

[Fidatelo]

Damon and DiCaprio are too short.

I don't recall LotR using midgets for the Hobbitses. This isn't a stage play, I don't think height should be much of an issue.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. fun stuff can be done with camera angles and all to adjust height

[Fidatelo]

yeah. fun stuff can be done with camera angles and all to adjust height

Not to mention that everyone in Hollywood is short, so it's all relative.

I think Brad Pitt circa 10 years ago could have played Jamie well also. He's too old now though, I suspect.

[ISiddiqui]

Well, and he's Brad Pitt, so why would he do an HBO series? ;)

[Autumn]

Exciting to see this really moving forward. I think Sean Bean works for that. I don't think he's "pretty" enough to be Jaime. We need someone there who you can kind of loathe to begin with because he's so arrogant, not in a Boromir kind of way, but just a pretty spoiled boy way.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Not to mention that everyone in Hollywood is short, so it's all relative.

I think Brad Pitt circa 10 years ago could have played Jamie well also. He's too old now though, I suspect.

I agree that someone in the Brad Pitt mold (obviously Brad Pitt himself is waaaay too big a name for this, or any other, series) would have been perfect. Similar to his spin as Achilles in "Troy."

Jaime isn't so much big as he is fast. I definitely pictured him as being more physically intimidating than Orlando Bloom.

[wade moore]

I agree that someone in the Brad Pitt mold (obviously Brad Pitt himself is waaaay too big a name for this, or any other, series) would have been perfect. Similar to his spin as Achilles in "Troy."

Jaime isn't so much big as he is fast. I definitely pictured him as being more physically intimidating than Orlando Bloom.

Yeah, I'm not finding a good way to explain it - but Bloom was just too small for what I picture. Someone of the Pitt mold would probably work fine.

I know he's too big of a hotshot now, but maybe even someone like Ryan Reynolds style.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yeah, I'm not finding a good way to explain it - but Bloom was just too small for what I picture. Someone of the Pitt mold would probably work fine.

I know he's too big of a hotshot now, but maybe even someone like Ryan Reynolds style.

I get what you're saying and I think that is the right mold. You need someone who can be intimidating, yet still is a pretty boy. Who is an arrogant bastard, but is still charasmatic and charming. You add in the fact that the actor has to resemble whoever they cast as Cersei - to at least some reasonable degree - makes it all the more challenging.

The casting of the Lannister siblings are really key. So far, so great with Tyrion.

[wade moore]

We need to play the "who would you cast" game..

Used to love doing this with GI Joe, Marvel, etc before they found ways to screw it up ;).

[Autumn]

How about what's his name, Ryan Phillipe for Jaime?

[wade moore]

How about what's his name, Ryan Phillipe for Jaime?
Height would be my only potential concern there. Just finally watched Crash on Friday - he'd be a pretty damned good selection.

[JeeberD]

How about what's his name, Ryan Phillipe for Jaime?

Great idea, I think he could pull it off quite well...

[wade moore]

Most of you guys won't know this kid, but..

He was on the ABC Family show Kyle XY - Chris Olivero (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005284/)

I think he'd work for Jaime.

[chesapeake]

Mark Addy is the fat guy in the Full Monty. He had a US sitcom fairly recently, too. I don't know that he has done much that aired in the US that was not a comedy.

Casting Sean Bean as Ned Stark sounds to me like they wanted a "big name" actor on the project to kick it off, but didn't want to pay a big name actor's salary for very long.

[ISiddiqui]

He may be a bit young, but I think Christopher Egan, who was Daniel in "Kings" would be a decent choice for Jamie.

[lordscarlet]

He may be a bit young, but I think Christopher Egan, who was Daniel in "Kings" would be a decent choice for Jamie.

I actually said this to Wade. But, for the record, you mean David not Daniel, and I think Jamie is actually about 5 years younger than Christopher Egan.

[JeeberD]

I only know Egan from Kings, but he seems too "nice" for Jaime.

[Coffee Warlord]

I actually said this to Wade. But, for the record, you mean David not Daniel, and I think Jamie is actually about 5 years younger than Christopher Egan.

They're gonna have bump up the ages of about everyone anyway.

[OldGiants]

Mark Addy I don't recognize the name or the face. But okay.

Really?

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI3MTUwNTc2M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTAwNzY3._V1._SX264_SY400_.jpg

[DaddyTorgo]

Really?

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI3MTUwNTc2M15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTAwNzY3._V1._SX264_SY400_.jpg

yes, really

[ISiddiqui]

yes, really x2.

[Chief Rum]

I get what you're saying and I think that is the right mold. You need someone who can be intimidating, yet still is a pretty boy. Who is an arrogant bastard, but is still charasmatic and charming. You add in the fact that the actor has to resemble whoever they cast as Cersei - to at least some reasonable degree - makes it all the more challenging.

I don't think Beckham's available.

[Autumn]

David and Posh for Jaime and Cersei? lol Perfect.

[3ric]

I'd probably pick Paul Bettany for Jaime.

[flere-imsaho]

Nice suggestion!

[ISiddiqui]

It is a good idea. Unfortunately Bettany has 2 films coming out next year that he's currently filming and another is in pre-production and a couple more in development. It depends on when the show will start filming, I guess.

[wade moore]

Again - Bettany is almost 40 years old. If my math is right, Jaime isn't even 20 in the books - right?

[JeeberD]

I don't think that's right. I mean, Joffrey's what, 13? I don't think Cercei got knocked up at 7 years old...that's a little extreme even for this series.

[Fidatelo]

I always pegged Jamie/Cersei in their late-20's.

[flere-imsaho]

Jaime became a member of the Kingsguard when he was 15, yes, but then it was years until the overthrow and ascension of Robert, and then years again for Robert to grow older and much fatter to bring us to the present day. I'd guess Jaime is in his mid/late 30s, or older.

[ISiddiqui]

House Lannister - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Lannister#Jaime)


Younger twin to Cersei, and son of Tywin and Joanna, Jaime Lannister (a POV character (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_of_view_(literature))) is one of the most famous knights in all of Westeros. At fifteen, he became a knight and ascended to the elite Kingsguard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsguard), the members of which can neither hold lands nor marry. Two years after his induction he murdered Mad King Aerys during the sack of King's Landing, earning him the epithet "Kingslayer". Though he shares his sister's arrogance, amorality, and striking good looks, he is much more reckless and easily amused. In A Storm of Swords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Storm_of_Swords) he becomes a point-of-view character.

So he was 17 when he killed Mad King Aerys.

And Joffery was 13 when he was ascended to the throne. So, I guess one could make the case that Jaime is a shade over 30.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Again - Bettany is almost 40 years old. If my math is right, Jaime isn't even 20 in the books - right?

I think Jaime is in his early-to-mid 30's.

I think Ned is 35 when the book starts (or thereabouts) and Jaime is a contemporary of Ned and Robert's, maybe a couple of years younger. The whole Robert's Rebellion war took place about 16 years or so before the books start and, while the youngest member of Kingsguard, Jaime had already been a member for a couple of years or so.

[flere-imsaho]

Let me clarify. At the beginning of the series Joffrey is 12. If he was conceived right at the start of Robert's reign and if Aerys was overthrown right after Jaime became a member of the Kingsguard (at 15), then Jaime & Cersei would be 27 right now. So likely more like early 30s.

[JeeberD]

I'm guessing 32. The wiki entries I read said Jamie joined the Kingsguard at 15 and killed Aerys two years later. Another entry says that Cersei was married to Robert for 15 years. And Robert married Cersei when Robert took the throne, correct?

15+2+15=32

[Honolulu_Blue]

Let me clarify. At the beginning of the series Joffrey is 12. If he was conceived right at the start of Robert's reign and if Aerys was overthrown right after Jaime became a member of the Kingsguard (at 15), then Jaime & Cersei would be 27 right now. So likely more like early 30s.

We know Robb was conceived right before Ned ran off to battle with Robert. So, if Jaime was 17 when he killed Aerys and Robb is, what, 14-15 when the books start? That does put Jaime right around his early 30's.

Casting-wise, I think most actors are going to be older. For example, Sean Bean is 50 and Ned is only 35. They will also likely need to age the kids a bit and use older actors in those roles to avoid the inevitable problem of the actors growing up much faster than the shooting schedule allows (see, e.g., Walt in "Lost"). Given the glacial pace at which HBO shoots its series, it will likely be an issue.

[wade moore]

Ok, it's been too long since I read it then and I was mixing up stuff from Wiki..

Based on wiki he killed Aerys at 17.

[flere-imsaho]

Also bear in mind that I think Martin bases the ages of his characters more on the examples from our medieval period, where you could go off to war in your mid-teens, you'd be at the pinnacle of your profession around 30, and if you were 50+ you were really old. Since modern "older" actors look better (and younger) than they ever have, the idea of casting a 50-year-old as a 35-year-old isn't a huge stretch.

[Bad-example]

This should be a pretty large production but my guess is that most of the actors will be small/unknown names for money reasons. There should be a few recognizable faces but not many.

[lordscarlet]

The question is: Who will play Brianne?

[DaddyTorgo]

i love that we're worried about this

[DaddyTorgo]

i think the character of arya will be the toughest/most interesting to cast. she's the character that (to date at least) has the most varied experiences and undergoes the most huge changes and shifts. will take an actress who's younger but with a lot of range.

[cschex]

The question is: Who will play Brianne?

They won't have to worry about that unless they pick it up for A Clash of Kings, but yeah, I can't imagine many actresses clamoring to play the part of an ugly woman.

[ISiddiqui]

The question is: Who will play Brianne?

Janet Reno ;)

[ISiddiqui]

They won't have to worry about that unless they pick it up for A Clash of Kings, but yeah, I can't imagine many actresses clamoring to play the part of an ugly woman.

Though thinking about this, Robin Weigert, who is NOT an ugly woman, uglied up pretty good to play Calamity Jane in "Deadwood". She'd be perfect, IMO.

[OldGiants]

yes, really x2.

What happened to the picture link?

And I hope you both realize I was referring to being okay with a guy who played Fred Flintstone, not that you didn't know who Mark Addy is.

[DaddyTorgo]

eh - i don't think roles that he played in the past are any indication how he'll be in any other role

[flounder]

Jennifer Ehle (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000383/) to play Catelyn Stark. Good choice IMHO. She was great in Pride and Prejudice (not the zombie version).

Not A Blog - Scooped (http://grrm.livejournal.com/97759.html)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Jennifer Ehle (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000383/) to play Catelyn Stark. Good choice IMHO. She was great in Pride and Prejudice (not the zombie version).

Not A Blog - Scooped (http://grrm.livejournal.com/97759.html)

A very good choice.

Lady H_B loves that BBC "Pride & Prejudice." She's watched it multiple times and it's like 5+ hours long. When I broke the news that Elizabeth Bennet would be playing Catelyn Stark, she replied: "Ugh, it will be annoying to have to hate her."

[lighthousekeeper]

Jennifer Ehle (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000383/) to play Catelyn Stark. Good choice IMHO. She was great in Pride and Prejudice (not the zombie version).

Not A Blog - Scooped (http://grrm.livejournal.com/97759.html)

yes very vlose to how i pictured that character

[flere-imsaho]

The casting folks on this one are on fire so far.

[sachmo71]

Janet Reno ;)

Chyna?

[sachmo71]

Jennifer Ehle (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000383/) to play Catelyn Stark. Good choice IMHO. She was great in Pride and Prejudice (not the zombie version).

Not A Blog - Scooped (http://grrm.livejournal.com/97759.html)

not pretty enough by half, imo

[Galaril]

The book done?......Ah, more TV stuff don't care until he finished the book series. I mean would you watch a series on TV Knowing it would end in a cliffhanger that is never finished or resolved? I suppose someone could finish Martins books ala Wheel of Time for him after he croaks which unfortunately may not be far off from the looks of him lately.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I mean would you watch a series on TV Knowing it would end in a cliffhanger that is never finished or resolved?

Absolutely.

[Galaril]

Absolutely.

All I meant is the TV series is great but I rather be hearing he has finished the next book and can not get tooexcited about a series which at this point I already know what is goignt o happen. I guess it is just me;)

[Schmidty]

Jennifer Ehle (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000383/) to play Catelyn Stark. Good choice IMHO. She was great in Pride and Prejudice (not the zombie version).

Not A Blog - Scooped (http://grrm.livejournal.com/97759.html)

Don't really know her, but I hope she's bitchy enough to play my least favorite character in the series.

[TargetPractice6]

Lots of new castings announced on Martin's blog. Still looking solid if you ask me.

[3ric]

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Jaime
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/photos/stylus/102978-coster-waldau_nikolaj_341x182.jpg

Never seen the guy before, but the name rings vaguely familiar

Edit: oh, he's Danish - that probably explains it

[MrBug708]

I can buy it

[JeeberD]

I've only heard of him because the wife and I watched New Amsterdam. Personally, I don't think he's 'pretty' enough, but hopefully he can pull it off...

[wade moore]

I've only heard of him because the wife and I watched New Amsterdam. Personally, I don't think he's 'pretty' enough, but hopefully he can pull it off...

So did we. Interesting choice. I'd agree... but we'll see.

[GrantDawg]

I've only heard of him because the wife and I watched New Amsterdam. Personally, I don't think he's 'pretty' enough, but hopefully he can pull it off...


Same. Maybe they'll pretty him up a bit.

[aran]

He also looks a bit old for Jaime. Jaime can't be older than 25 in AGOT, this guy looks like he's in his late thirties.

[Honolulu_Blue]

He also looks a bit old for Jaime. Jaime can't be older than 25 in AGOT, this guy looks like he's in his late thirties.

He is a bit old, but all of the cast seems to be a bit older than the characters actual ages in the book. When AGOT starts Jaime is about 31-32 or so. The actor is 39.

[aran]

I thought Jaime wasn't older than 17 when he killed the old King in Robert's Rebellion. There were 15 years between Robert's victory and his death? I though Dany was a young child when her father was killed and she was 14ish when AGOT tokes place?

[cschex]

I thought Jaime wasn't older than 17 when he killed the old King in Robert's Rebellion. There were 15 years between Robert's victory and his death? I though Dany was a young child when her father was killed and she was 14ish when AGOT tokes place?

Dany was conceived a couple of months before the Sack of King's Landing and was born on Dragonstone after the war was basically over. It is 15 years between the Rebellion and aGoT.

[ISiddiqui]

I've only heard of him because the wife and I watched New Amsterdam.

Same. And he was awesome in New Amsterdam!

[terpkristin]

Just saw GRRM's latest post about Arya and Sansa. Sansa matches my mental image of her almost perfectly, Arya's pretty close (I imagined her hair a bit different).

/tk

[JeeberD]

Personally I think Arya's dead on. The actress looks exactly like I imagined her...

[Schmidty]

I've always pictured Arya with a much longer face, so this girl isn't quite "perfect" as far as my mental image of the character.

Sansa and Dany are spot-on perfect though. I've also come to think the new Jaime will be a good fit.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Some more casting news...

They've casted Lena Headey, of "300" and "Sarah Connor Chronicles" fame, as Cersei Lannister. That's another "big name", so that's good.

As to whether she can pull it off... I never really saw Cersei being as fit and lean as Lena Headey. I always imagined Cersei and slender, yet soft; not so much slender and chiseled. That said, I do think Lena's hot and all that is just quibbling.

As to whether she's a great actress... She was "ok" in both 300 and Terminator. She wasn't the best part of Terminator, but I don't think the role of Sarah Connor is really all that rewarding. She pretty much has to be tough, somewhat distant, paranoid, and highly over protective of her son. Even in her role in 300 she played the sort of tough, stoic queen. I've never really seen Lena even try to play seductive (and stupid) before.

Sometimes actors can surprise. For example, the guy who played McNulty on The Wire (Dominic West) was the bad Spartan (who Leda killed) in 300 and the bad guy in the latest Punisher movie. He was pretty awful in both movies, but simply rocked as McNulty. He was awesome. Sometimes folks just fit a role. Maybe the reason Leda came off as a bit stiff in 300 and Terminator was because was born to play a seductress like Cersei.

I always felt like the tall, blonde Cylon chick from BSG would have been the best choice for Cersei. I know she can do seductive.

They also filled the role of The Hound. He's being played by a Scottish guy, Rory McCann. You can check him out on imdb. He was the guy in "Hot Fuzz" who just said "yarp" and was in "Alexander." I think can look the part and definitely can pull it off physically. He's 6'6".

[Galaril]

Some more casting news...

They've casted Lena Headey, of "300" and "Sarah Connor Chronicles" fame, as Cersei Lannister. That's another "big name", so that's good.

As to whether she can pull it off... I never really saw Cersei being as fit and lean as Lena Headey. I always imagined Cersei and slender, yet soft; not so much slender and chiseled. That said, I do think Lena's hot and all that is just quibbling.

As to whether she's a great actress... She was "ok" in both 300 and Terminator. She wasn't the best part of Terminator, but I don't think the role of Sarah Connor is really all that rewarding. She pretty much has to be tough, somewhat distant, paranoid, and highly over protective of her son. Even in her role in 300 she played the sort of tough, stoic queen. I've never really seen Lena even try to play seductive (and stupid) before.

Sometimes actors can surprise. For example, the guy who played McNulty on The Wire (Dominic West) was the bad Spartan (who Leda killed) in 300 and the bad guy in the latest Punisher movie. He was pretty awful in both movies, but simply rocked as McNulty. He was awesome. Sometimes folks just fit a role. Maybe the reason Leda came off as a bit stiff in 300 and Terminator was because was born to play a seductress like Cersei.

I always felt like the tall, blonde Cylon chick from BSG would have been the best choice for Cersei. I know she can do seductive.

They also filled the role of The Hound. He's being played by a Scottish guy, Rory McCann. You can check him out on imdb. He was the guy in "Hot Fuzz" who just said "yarp" and was in "Alexander." I think can look the part and definitely can pull it off physically. He's 6'6".


Oh God I hate this choice not at all what I would of thought of for Cersei. This is a real reach when you look at the last two roles she did that you mention. She would have been great for Catelyn Stark but not Cersei I mean a golden haired queens she is not. :confused: Boo.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Oh God I hate this choice not at all what I would of thought of for Cersei. This is a real reach when you look at the last two roles she did that you mention. She would have been great for Catelyn Stark but not Cersei I mean a golden haired queens she is not. :confused: Boo.

Give her some golden hair and I think she is hot enough to pull it off. Despite being a fan of both 300 and Sarah Connor, I didn't think she particularly excelled in either role, so perhaps she was really born to play a more Cerseiesque character than a tough-as-nails character.

The more I think on it, the more I like it. Besides, I think, in most cases (not all), it's really tough to judge without actually seeing the actor/actress perform the role.

[DaddyTorgo]

Give her some golden hair and I think she is hot enough to pull it off. Despite being a fan of both 300 and Sarah Connor, I didn't think she particularly excelled in either role, so perhaps she was really born to play a more Cerseiesque character than a tough-as-nails character.

The more I think on it, the more I like it. Besides, I think, in most cases (not all), it's really tough to judge without actually seeing the actor/actress perform the role.

Cersei is tough in her own way too. I think Lena can pull it off with a sexy wig (although tbh i always pictured cersei as a more voluptous woman than her also)

[Schmidty]

I always see Cersei as having big ass titties and a heart-shaped ass, so this doesn't work for me.

Sorry. I meant "ample bosoms", and "buttocks", not ass.

[DaddyTorgo]

I always see Cersei as having big ass titties and a heart-shaped ass, so this doesn't work for me.

Sorry. I meant "ample bosoms", and "buttocks", not ass.

yep. i mean really...if she's not ridiculously smoking-hot then why is her hero-knight/brad pitt-esque brother down with the whole incest thing? Unless (and maybe it'll be played up this way in the series) they think that by doing so they're somehow equal to the Targaryen's?

[Autumn]

Well a lot of actors do a lot of work to get ready for a role ...

[Schmidty]

Dola.

I loved the "yarp" guy in Hot Fuzz, so I hope he can pull it off.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I always see Cersei as having big ass titties...

That's incredibly shocking coming from you. We all know how you love your big ass titties.

Swing low sweet chariots.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Also, if I recall, I don't think she's ever described as being buxom, voluptuous or excessively be-tittied.

[Schmidty]

We all know how you love your big ass titties.

If I had big ass titties, I'd never get anything done, because I'd be hanging upside down motorboating myself all the time.

[Honolulu_Blue]

If I had big ass titties, I'd never get anything done, because I'd be hanging upside down motorboating myself all the time.

That is a happy image. Thanks!

[Autumn]

If I had big ass titties, I'd never get anything done, because I'd be hanging upside down motorboating myself all the time.

Manboobs are within the realm of possibility for you. Go on a Homer Simpson diet.

[Samdari]

Does anyone else get the impression from all this casting crap that he has completely abandoned writing again?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Does anyone else get the impression from all this casting crap that he has completely abandoned writing again?

No, not really. I think he's definitely involved and, therefore, probably distracted by it, but if it wasn't casting it'd be some convention, toy knights, the start of the NFL season, some anthology he's editing, etc.